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Three die in Grand Canyon helicopter crash, four others injured - CNN


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#1 President Trump

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 04:54

First off, bless the people that died/ became injured in this crash. When is papillon going to step their safety game up? Papillons accident rate seems to directly correlate to the low wages they pay pilots. Instead of hiring low time pilots/inexperienced pilots, maybe they should increase their salary from one of the lowest paying tour companies in the canyon and have a more selective process like Maverick does. Higher wages equals better pilots. Maverick has ZERO fatalities and they work their pilots 10 times harder than Papillon. Papillon has also been rumored to have sketchy maintenance over the years. I believe it was papillon who previously allowed their pilots to keep the blades spinning on an empty helicopter, while the pilot was allowed to take a leak from standing on the skid. Papillon is a complete sh*t show and I can make that claim first hand. They should be banned from the canyon. Enough is enough.
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#2 chris pochari

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 15:35

I am not an operator but all I can say is maybe you shouldn't criticize until you know all the details and facts. Most helicopter operators I know are dedicated professional who put safety above everything else, I've never seen a careless operator. Due to the way the helicopter industry works, pilots are put under too much pressure and paid too little. This has more to do with the way the market works than is the fault of operators. I'm sure most helicopter operators would like to pay pilots more, but they can't due to the market conditions, most operators barely make 3% net profit, it's not like they're greedy. 

My .2 cents is not worth much though.


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#3 Azhigher

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 16:09

Instead of hiring low time pilots/inexperienced pilots, maybe they should increase their salary from one of the lowest paying tour companies in the canyon and have a more selective process like Maverick does. Higher wages equals better pilots. Maverick has ZERO fatalities and they work their pilots 10 times harder than Papillon. 

 

1. Someone has to transition piston guys. That being said their training and holding all their pilots to standards could be better. Management needs to fly the line and actually see what's happening. That didn't happen when I was there.

 

2. Maverick doesn't work their pilots harder than Pap.



#4 chris pochari

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 19:46

read this http://helihub.com/2...ramco-software/



#5 helicodger pilot

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 20:37

I was under the impression that this was a forum for helicopter pilots, so why do all the posts so far imply that the cause of the crash was pilot error?  You guys all work for the NTSB, maybe?  I'm sure that the EC130 is an excellent helicopter, and turbine engines and well designed aircraft seldom fail, but seldom does not equal never.  Perhaps we might give the poor pilot (and the operator) the benefit of the doubt until some hard data is available?  It may turn out that there were some pilot or operator errors that contributed to this tragedy, but that remains to be established.  It could also be that something unexpected and unavoidable caused this accident, did you ever think of that?  

Put yourself in the position of the PIC of this flight, recovering in the hospital (or resting in the morgue), feeling the weight of what has happened.  PAX were trusting you to show them some awesome scenery and bring them back safely, which somehow failed to occur, and you have to live with the results of that for the rest of your life, including your own injuries.  So to add insult to injury, you have alleged fellow pilots assuming that the accident was YOUR FAULT because you're a low-time, underpaid pilot (which is an also unsubstantiated allegation)?

 

Please, people give a little thought and show a little class before you post.  

 

There's no substitute for wisdom, but silence does a pretty good job.


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"I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right"


#6 chris pochari

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 21:12

I was under the impression that this was a forum for helicopter pilots, so why do all the posts so far imply that the cause of the crash was pilot error?  You guys all work for the NTSB, maybe?  I'm sure that the EC130 is an excellent helicopter, and turbine engines and well designed aircraft seldom fail, but seldom does not equal never.  Perhaps we might give the poor pilot (and the operator) the benefit of the doubt until some hard data is available?  It may turn out that there were some pilot or operator errors that contributed to this tragedy, but that remains to be established.  It could also be that something unexpected and unavoidable caused this accident, did you ever think of that?  

Put yourself in the position of the PIC of this flight, recovering in the hospital (or resting in the morgue), feeling the weight of what has happened.  PAX were trusting you to show them some awesome scenery and bring them back safely, which somehow failed to occur, and you have to live with the results of that for the rest of your life, including your own injuries.  So to add insult to injury, you have alleged fellow pilots assuming that the accident was YOUR FAULT because you're a low-time, underpaid pilot (which is an also unsubstantiated allegation)?

 

Please, people give a little thought and show a little class before you post.  

 

There's no substitute for wisdom, but silence does a pretty good job.

No one is denying system failure does account for a significant number of crashes, last I heard around 20% of accidents are attributable to some type of system failure. That does mean 80% is NOT due to a component failure. Mechanics blame pilots and pilots blame mechanics, that's not going to change. If 80% of crashes were because of bad mechanics/poor maintenance and 20% of crashes were pilot error, than mechanics would deserve most of the blame. 

http://www.ihst.org/...ST-CIS_2016.pdf page 5


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#7 iChris

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 22:26

 

 

Becky Dobson, 27, Stuart Hill, 30 and his brother Jason Hill, 32 died in Saturday's crash, Hualapai Police said.

 

Three other Britons and the pilot were injured on the tour of the canyon but they were not rescued until some eight hours later on Sunday morning.
 

Police said Britons Ellie Milward, 29, Jonathan Udall, 32, and Jennifer Barham, 39, were injured in the crash, along with pilot Scott Booth, 42.

 

Witnesses told local reporters they had seen survivors running away from the crash site and shouting.

 

It is not clear what caused the crash and witnesses say rescue efforts have been hampered by high winds.

 

The helicopter crashed on Saturday evening and survivors were not rescued until the early hours of Sunday morning.

 


Edited by iChris, 12 February 2018 - 14:56.

Regards,

Chris

#8 rollthbns

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 01:30

Thoughts and prayers to any and all involved in this tragic accident.  When it happens to one, it happens to all, and as a community we should always come together regardless of who what where when and how.  


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Safety. Professionalism. Attitude. Service.

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#9 helonorth

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 06:55

Papillon seems to have a very good safety record. The prez starts out with bullsh*t info and then uses it to bash an operator.
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#10 chris pochari

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Posted 12 February 2018 - 13:24

Papillon seems to have a very good safety record. The prez starts out with bullsh*t info and then uses it to bash an operator.

I agree, operators with bad safety records generally don't say in business for 30+ years, plus most operators now use SMS



#11 Counterrotate

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 22:45

I used to work for that operator.  Their accident rate is actually very, very low for the volume of flights they do, and they don't work their pilots any harder than, say, Sundance. And less so than some of the newer operators like 5-Star and Serenity.  Maverick pilots have it easy by comparison and make more.  They have a great SMS system in place and good people at the helm who value safety above all else.  That said, it's a large company, and it's not perfect.  Show me a company that is. 

 

I know the pilot who was in this accident.  He's a very experienced and great pilot who works part time filling in when needed because he LOVES the company.  He owns his own business and isn't in it for the money.  He's been there for years.  I really am hoping he pulls through.

 

I loath when people make insinuations about an operator's safety any time there is an accident.   Even the safest companies still have accidents.  You cannot mitigate all the risks.  Compared to many operators I have worked for, Papillon is one of the best. 


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