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#21 avbug

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 07:40

Eric,

 

Understanding the requirement, and a willingness to die if necessary, to prevent the misuse of an aircraft by hijackers/terrorists is not arrogance.  Except perhaps in your world. 

 

In the real world, it's a professional requirement and an extreme necessity applicable to an extreme situation in which we all hope to never find ourselves.  

 

As for the question of what the response is to squawking 7500; this is well established and given, and everyone from student pilot on up has an obligation to know it, regardless of whether employed for a certificate holder.



#22 helonorth

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 10:12

I think avbug has pretty much lost it at this point. 


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#23 SBuzzkill

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Posted 08 April 2018 - 12:08

If it looks like they're going to use it to hit something I'm just going to cut the fuel.  Voila, the target is now whatever spot of ground is 1,000 feet in front of us.  Even if the hijacker knows how to fly I've taken away his options.  If he knows how to start and take off in the bird then why didn't he just steal it?

 

Anyways, until it reaches that point I'm doing whatever the hijacker tells me to.  You know, to survive.  


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#24 WolftalonID

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 08:39

So what we have learned via a public forum is Avbug has publicly admitted he is suicidal and may or may not be fit for further flight when passengers become rather demanding in nature. 

 

I missed the part in my last 22 days of training about the self destruct mode if hijacked...but leave that to Flight Safety, maybe they missed the Government memo to include this in the power point presentation.

 

I did learn though about the FAA cheat codes. These are pretty helpful in case you may have thought they meant something else.

 

7500, fly in formation with F-16's

7600, ATC radio silence for when you just need to have a moment of silence.

7700, Priority landing, Like TSA precheck for pilots on final

 

:)


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#25 r22butters

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 08:46

 
7500, fly in formation with F-16's

:)

F-16's,...?!

HEY GUYS WAIT UP,...! :o
Side boob is just so awesome,...yes it is!

#26 avbug

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 18:30

So what we have learned via a public forum is Avbug has publicly admitted he is suicidal and may or may not be fit for further flight when passengers become rather demanding in nature. 

 

 

 

You're not really that f*cking stupid.

 

Are you?



#27 Wally

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 10:43

Apocryphal story:
In the late eighties I was flying a gas pipeline job in the Gulf of Mexico. The story is that the zoomies came out to intercept a helicopter who then landed on one of the pipelines two manned compressor platforms. The F16s circled for a short while (which must have been challenging).
The platform personnel waited for somebody to come down from the helipad's idling unknown helicopter, but no one came down explain what was happening. The F16s left after a few minutes and the unidentified helicopter left shortly thereafter.

The flow of party supplies from Colombia had sharply diminished by this point, after the aerostats went up...

Edited by Wally, 20 April 2018 - 10:44.

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Just a pilot (retired, so I have a LOT of time)...


#28 WolftalonID

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Posted 21 April 2018 - 08:09

You're not really that f*cking stupid.
 
Are you?


No I am not as stupid as your statement about dieing was. Most of us would just roll the trottle to off...flights over right there, then attempt an auto to the surface. Generally hijackers themselves will freakout when you fall and your 20-30 seconds later on the ground/water..problem solved. Hands free to beat the livin crap out of who just put me and my families future in jeopardy.

If they kill me then so be that, but I go out at least biting their ankles, if not well ahead. An engine stoppage is far better than just CFIT.....

Are you so comfortable in death that you make it seem we all should be as well? What sick and twisted line of companies have you sold your soul to these last few years?

I think Bug your blinded by your own arrogance. Not one other professional pilot here thinks what you said sounded professional or of sound mind.
Sometimes we think we know it all....only later to discover we only knew all we had learned. Never stop learning.

#29 avbug

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 03:19

Thanks for clarifying that.  You really are that f*cking stupid.  I thought so, but it's always best to check.

 

Current doctrine, and has been since 09/11, is that the aircraft will not be surrendered or used for illicit purposes, regardless of what it takes to prevent that action.  Up to and including destruction of the aircraft.  There is no compliance, there is no surrendering of control of the aircraft, or capitulation to hijacker demands.

 

If this is something of which you're not aware, then you've no business flying for a certificate holder, and your certificate holder has some explaining to do.  

 

7500 is still the squawk, and it's spelled out clearly in the AIM.

 

Doctrine and policy regarding pilot actions in the event of a hijacking, however, are not something that should be discussed on a public forum.



#30 Eric Hunt

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 04:41

Ohhh, horsefeathers, Avbug.

 

You might be lucky enough to know the secret handshake doctrine, and are able to then claim that anybody who doesn't know it shouldn't be in the business, but this doctrine, if it exists, is kept so secret that only the upperclasses of aviators, like you, are the cognoscenti.

 

You still hold the Highest Hobbyhorse Award.


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#31 avbug

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Posted 23 April 2018 - 20:14

I just finished a two month groundschool, and the topic came up several days in a row, along with a number of other topics, including where in the aircraft to place an explosive device to minimize damage.  

 

This isn't "secret handshake."  This is required training for any 135 or 121 operator, and it's considered operational security.  It's discussed openly in the classroom and on the line; not so on a public board.  This isn't really that complicated.  This isn't an "upper class" issue.  It's truly a wonder that anyone could be flying in a cockpit and be paid, and not know the purpose of 7500, 7600, or 7700 on the transponder, or the procedures to take in the event of an intercept, or the actions to take in the event of a hijacking.  

 

There is no higher priority than to prevent the aircraft from being used inappropriately, and that means doing whatever is necessary.  If one can disable the aircraft and land, so be it.  Whatever is necessary.  Bar nothing.  It needn't be made clearer than that on a public board, and if one doesn't understand that, or the implications, then one had best find out.



#32 r22butters

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 11:29

 
There is no higher priority than to prevent the aircraft from being used inappropriately,...


Oh I don't know, I think I can come up with a few that are a bit higher.
Side boob is just so awesome,...yes it is!

#33 helonorth

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 19:19

I just finished a two month groundschool, and the topic came up several days in a row, along with a number of other topics, including where in the aircraft to place an explosive device to minimize damage.  

 

 

 

 

 

HA HA HA HA HA! avbug, as always, outdoes himself. 



#34 Nearly Retired

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Posted 24 April 2018 - 22:12

Two-month ground school?  Ohhhh, that's right...complicated airplanes like the 747 probably take that long for mechanics' ground school.  Because, if I'm not mistaken, didn't Avbug once say that some medical malady had got him grounded and he's a mechanic now?



#35 WolftalonID

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 10:26

Damn..I thought 22 days was a long transition. I need to get me some of those horse feathers..maybe shove them in the hijackers nose.....oops...that was not supposed to be publicly disseminated...

In those sexy 747s....pilots don their O2 masks...depressurize the plane...make everyone go sleeppppyyy.

Not sure how to handle it in a helicopter...we discussed it...and laughed a little...not much a helicopter is going to accomplish if it were hijacked..not going far thats for sure. Prison escapes? Joy Rides? Bounce off a window?

Ever try to reach through the cockpit of a Bell from behind? Hijackers should avoid Bell helis unless its a 505. Too hard to mess with the crazy pilot.

Ever dump a collective with friends on board? They scream, we giggle, its a good time. Hijackers probably dont train for that.

Avbug...we get it..noone wants to let someone take their aircraft and run it into another buillding. Hell passengers took over one of them on 9/11...heros in my mind...

But we train relentlessly in our aircraft to be masters of all that can occure. If what you are saying was a normal training event..many of us here would agree....and we dont.

Wonder why that is? Maybe the group your hanging out with is batshit crazy. Maybe your joined up with a crack military group that escaped from prison after being falsely accused of a crime they didnt commit and are now hidding...nevermind..was watching TV and subconsciously typing a narrative.

If your go to emergency training is mission impossible self destruct mode...your doing it wrong. They make those injectable explosives that can be remotly detonated now..seen it in a movie. Much more fun!

Until the mainstream aviation safty teams call for Commercial Operations Captain Kamikaze and a Ballistic Aviation Lethal Levelling System guide to be enforced for all modern commercial pilots....I just keep on flying safe. ;)

Edited by WolftalonID, 27 April 2018 - 10:53.

Sometimes we think we know it all....only later to discover we only knew all we had learned. Never stop learning.

#36 RisePilot

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Posted 27 April 2018 - 11:45

I was wondering where I see the most dumbass comments – web forums or Facebook groups?

 

AvBug’s posts have slanted the tally in favour of web forums today.


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#37 avbug

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 18:54

In those sexy 747s....pilots don their O2 masks...depressurize the plane...make everyone go sleeppppyyy.
 

 

 

No, we don't.

 

You might not be concerned that someone can grab your pony tail from the backseat in your jetranger.  Sure as sh*t they can put a bullet through your thick skull.  Or a pool cue.  Or like one hijacker, a ball peen hammer and a spear gun.  

 

The point is that you do whatever is necessary, bar nothing, to prevent anyone else from taking control of that aircraft.  If you can land and get away, do that.  If you can kill the person interfering, or disable them, do that.  If you must destroy the aircraft, do that, but you do whatever is necessary, BAR NOTHING, to prevent its misuse.  

 

Hijackers use a variety of techniques, including holding someone else hostage.  Your wife?  A little girl?  Who knows.  Someone.  Somehow.  They do not simply ask you to go somewhere you don't intend, because they know you won't.

 

Your go-to plan may be to cause butterflies in their stomach or give them the giggles by lowering the collective or shutting off fuel.  People who hijack aircraft are usually far less concerned with their own lives than with their mission, whatever that may be.  

 

You say "we" train relentlessly to be master of all that can occur, but thus far every damn one of you has asserted that you've NEVER received any training in this matter.  Which is it, bright spark?  One of the two is a lie.  Which one are you telling?



#38 r22butters

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Posted 28 April 2018 - 20:44

,...but you do whatever is necessary, BAR NOTHING, to prevent its misuse.  


BAR NOTHING, I remember a candybar by that name back in the 80's.

,...no wait, it was BAR NONE.

Still, a very good candy bar, if I recall. :)
Side boob is just so awesome,...yes it is!

#39 WolftalonID

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Posted 29 April 2018 - 10:37

I thought Optimus called it the “All spark”.....sorta like “bright spark”...but when you imagine Avbug sounding like Optimus its right on point. ;)
Sometimes we think we know it all....only later to discover we only knew all we had learned. Never stop learning.




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