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Downsides of Army Aviation?


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niner5, on 24 May 2018 - 12:28, said:snapback.png

Do any of you know if it is possible to get a guaranteed aviation contract through OCS, prior to attending? I was accepted to WOFT, but since my basic date isn't for so long I have started to explore the idea of OCS. My recruiter doesn't seem to think so, but he has been wrong on a lot of questions I have asked him in the past.

I have a 4 year degree and meet all of the requirements to be an officer, so I am starting to think OCS would be a better fit for me. That being said, I am about to finish my PPL so it would be foolish of me to go to OCS without a guaranteed flight school slot.

I am also 22 years old, which from what I understand is traditionally the age people become 2lts. Sorry if some (or all) of this sounds naive, but I literally know 2 people in the entire military - both of whom are Marines. I understand that a lot of WOs have 4 year degrees as well, but I want to make sure that I am making the best decision for a career that will, at the very least, last about 8-9 years.

Thanks

I went to Federal OCS as a Guard guy earlier this year and now at flight school. Only NG have guaranteed branches at OCS and I would not recommend it as an AD guy if your dead set on Aviation. We did have 2 AD people get selected aviation in a class of 130 and the class before us had a couple as well. With this being said it was stressed how rare this was and there is no guarantee that any slots will be available in the future. Good luck and your BCT date will be here before you know it!

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I got my basic date in March. I am not supposed to ship out until November 13th or 19th...cant remember the exact date. WOCS class begins 02/22/19.

 

I believe someone else on the March board received the same BCT and WOCS dates. No idea why its a 6 month wait, but hopefully you will have better luck.

The reason such a long wait for the street to seat guys is because they only do 5 seven week WOCS courses a year compared to 17 five week courses this year.

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AD Army aviation is an absolute morale killer, especially in the 25th. 10% of the job is flying. The rest is extra duties, admin, ruck marches, pt everyday, online training and whatever else higher has a hard on that doesn't already fit into a 12 hour work day.

 

All my guard friends are having a blast. I think I made the wrong decision.

So much truth! It's the same if not worse at Bragg. I count down the days until I get out. Best advice I can give is get a degree and fly for the air force.

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Now that they are getting rid of their tiger stripes... not much reason to avoid em. In all seriousness if looking at active duty aviation, I think I'd still prioritize Army. I loved being a Marine, but even Marine pilots I knew lamented limited flight hours that only diminished as their careers progressed. As far as the USAF guys I know, great people, but not really a "military" enough organization for me. Coming from the infantry side, wanting to continue to support the infantry, I think there is merit in being in an organization that is based around the ground combat element. Alas, I'm going Guard, so I'm pretty pumped because that seems to be the way to do it. The Guard pilots I know pretty much love it, with the usual complaints about the guard being a pain in your civilian life's ass.

 

Mike

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  • 1 month later...

Does it get better if you become an IP?

Not based on what I hear. Its a good amount of work between progressions, APARTs, and records. Also what one IP said to me stood out.

 

No matter whats happening Im usually flying with the shittiest pilot we have

 

Safety guys have it pretty good.

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Does it get better if you become an IP?

That depends. If you’re an IP in a unit that likes to play games and politics and you’re good at those, life will be great. If you actually want to instruct pilots being an IP is not the track to take. IPs rarely instruct outside of progression, and even then it’s generally rushed in order to get the new guy up. In reality they should be called EPs because most of their time is spent doing evaluations.

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So much truth! It's the same if not worse at Bragg. I count down the days until I get out. Best advice I can give is get a degree and fly for the air force.

I feel like us reserve guys over on east ramp are giving yall active guys a run for yalls money. We have missions non-stop and hardly ever see a blade turning on yalls side of the ramp.

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So much truth! It's the same if not worse at Bragg. I count down the days until I get out. Best advice I can give is get a degree and fly for the air force.

Cantankerously and Hodor60, which airframes do you fly and are both of you at Bragg? I ask because I saw both your posts about one person not flying much and the other saying their rotors seem to be turning nonstop. Im just curious if differences in airframe play a big role in how much you are actually flying.

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Willhp you must have missed this part:

 

I feel like us reserve guys over on east ramp are giving yall active guys a run for yalls money. We have missions non-stop and hardly ever see a blade turning on yalls side of the ramp.

 

 

Apples and oranges regardless of airframe.

Edited by SBuzzkill
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Willhp you must have missed this part:

 

 

 

Apples and oranges regardless of airframe.

 

For sure, wasnt saying they are the same at all, was just making an observation is all. I came from a stand-alone unit in the middle of Texas, so being near active flight units and seeing how much yall usually fly was a shock. I figured yall would fly all the time.

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Willhp you must have missed this part:

 

 

 

Apples and oranges regardless of airframe.

I did catch it and I knew there was a drastic difference with flight time between active duty and National Guard. I didnt realize it was that big of a difference with the Reserves. I was under the impression that when you are in an active reserve position it is in support of active duty. You get paid the same as active duty, fall under the same funding and run the same optempo/missions as your active duty counterparts. Thats why I asked if airframe might play a difference in flight time when comparing reserves in an active position and regular active duty.

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Damn I didn't mean to offend anyone. I thought you did not realize they weren't both active duty units. Anyways.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that you cannot predict how much you will fly especially by comparing communities. If you're trying to compare guard/reserve hours vs active duty, or one airframe vs another, or one unit vs another, you're never going to get an accurate estimate. Two years ago my old unit only flew when there were missions. This year, guys are sitting because they are breaking 100 hours in a month (doing continuation training!) and even then the unit is struggling to hit the target hours simply because there are not enough pilots.

 

Yeah a Reserve unit might out-fly an Active unit this year. But next year when that Active Battalion heads to Afghanistan or Korea they might triple their flight hours, or not. An Apache pilot might fill up a logbook at NTC, or they may sit through a rotation with broken aircraft and a ground unit that doesn't like them.

 

The pot of money is constantly changing, maintenance status is constantly changing, leadership, IPs, PCs, AMCs, missions, etc. are always changing.

Edited by SBuzzkill
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Damn I didn't mean to offend anyone. I thought you did not realize they weren't both active duty units. Anyways.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that you cannot predict how much you will fly especially by comparing communities. If you're trying to compare guard/reserve hours vs active duty, or one airframe vs another, or one unit vs another, you're never going to get an accurate estimate. Two years ago my old unit only flew when there were missions. This year, guys are sitting because they are breaking 100 hours in a month (doing continuation training!) and even then the unit is struggling to hit the target hours simply because there are not enough pilots.

 

Yeah a Reserve unit might out-fly an Active unit this year. But next year when that Active Battalion heads to Afghanistan or Korea they might triple their flight hours, or not. An Apache pilot might fill up a logbook at NTC, or they may sit through a rotation with broken aircraft and a ground unit that doesn't like them.

 

The pot of money is constantly changing, maintenance status is constantly changing, leadership, IPs, PCs, AMCs, missions, etc. are always changing.

SBuzzkill, I by no means was offended and really appreciate any and all of your insight!!! It is so hard to interpret how someone is talking through written words, especially when you do not personally know who you are talking/typing with. I was only trying to understand some differences and what you said in your post quoted above made alot of sense. I will be starting the entire process of WOCS/flight school next month and am just trying to get as much information as possible heading in.

 

With all that being said, thanks to all current aviators who still come back to forum and post their experiences and helpful information.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Any idea if Kentucky or Washington has access to street to seat for Guard?

 

You can go straight guard WOFT. It's up to the individual state in practice how they want to do it. Some states will take people right off the street, others will take them from within the guard, others will look at everything case by case. For example I was recently accepted in my State which typically would only select from within the national guard. I had a completed packet and was prior service so they made an exception.

 

Mike

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  • 2 months later...

Sorry for bringing this post back from the dead. I wanted to thank everyone who chimed into this thread. Honestly between what I have read here, the wars winding down (at least overseas), and my crappy run time, the wind has really been taken out of my sails. I might try for a guard unit, but have definitely shelved the idea of going active duty. Again thank you all for your honesty.

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Go Guard then. You only live once. I base most of my life decisions of if I could look back at the end and be like f*** me, shoulda done that. There are a couple of those moments that won't come again, but I wasn't about to let this be one of them. If it matters that much to you, you can do more to make it happen. Certainly no big deal if it's not that important to you.

 

Mike

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If you happen to be active military now and get a DD-368 that allows you to go WOFT for the Guard, your service obligation would terminate and whatever obligation you now owe to the Guard will takeover, assuming its blessed by the necessary parties of course. Post selection you cannot simply jump from active WOFT selectee to Guard or vice versa, States run their own boards as does the active component.

 

Mike

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