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What is trim in the Astar?


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#1 takefootoff

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 14:49

Coming from Bell products, love having a trim string again.

Is trim accomplished with the string lined up straight with the center pillar, or is it offset and pointed towards the pilot?

My lower back used to let me know if I was in trim or not, but I'm just generally sore and numb now so I'm having a hard time sensing it.
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#2 V-any

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 18:00

Coming from Bell products, love having a trim string again.

Is trim accomplished with the string lined up straight with the center pillar, or is it offset and pointed towards the pilot?

My lower back used to let me know if I was in trim or not, but I'm just generally sore and numb now so I'm having a hard time sensing it.

 

It's just a piece of yarn. When when the wind is directly from the front, it pushes the yarn directly aft, and it's in trim.



#3 takefootoff

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 18:10

That piece of yarn has a part number too.

#4 Wally

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Posted 06 October 2018 - 18:34

Coming from Bell products, love having a trim string again.

Is trim accomplished with the string lined up straight with the center pillar, or is it offset and pointed towards the pilot?

My lower back used to let me know if I was in trim or not, but I'm just generally sore and numb now so I'm having a hard time sensing it.

 

The inclinometer's ball is set at 'level' in the roll axis.  The aircraft does not fly level in roll, from a pronounced right side down at a hover, gradually bringing the right side up at speed, according to cg, power, weight and speed.

The 'string' on the nose cone accurately shows air flow streamline,  I consider(ed) it primary, and calibrated my 'ball' by it.

Yes, it has a part number and is required for airworthiness.  I don't remember being certified to replace it, but having a spare in your RFM, or personal kit is a good idea....

The final authority is whether the aircraft holds heading.  If it wander off, right or left, I re-calibrate everything.

The aircraft is pretty  stable at speed, pitch, roll and yaw, but it becomes faster as fuel burns,and that affects everything else.  I always cruise(d) at max continuous, fuel is cheaper than fight time, so all speed available is economic.


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Just a pilot (retired, so I have a LOT of time)...


#5 takefootoff

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Posted 07 October 2018 - 05:27

So it's just straight up the pipe then?

Was probably just over thinking it, something about how the pilot seat is slightly crossed in or maybe I'm a lil cross eyed.

#6 brettjeepski

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Posted 07 October 2018 - 20:30

So it's just straight up the pipe then?

Was probably just over thinking it, something about how the pilot seat is slightly crossed in or maybe I'm a lil cross eyed.

No I would say straight at your head. Not inline with the pillar.


Aircraft I have flown: R22BII, R44 RI, R44 RII, MD 500E, Bell 206B3, Bell 206 L3 AS350B2, AS350B3e, EC130B4,


#7 Azhigher

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 11:48

I usually shoot for straight up the pillar. Not sure if that's the "correct" answer, but it's what I do. Regardless of what I do though my mechanic will tell me I'm using too much pedal and I'm wearing down the bearings prematurely.  <_<


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#8 Eric Hunt

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 13:43

 

 

No I would say straight at your head. Not inline with the pillar.

This would have totally different results if you sat in the other seat.

Gotta be Wrong.

Straight up. Airflow is then balanced either side. That's why they call it "balance".



#9 takefootoff

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 23:19

Fellas, please.

I really have no clue on this one.

I'll get it cruising straight and level tap each of the pedals (slightly) and it still won't feel 'right.

Got an Aspen MFD/PFD installed and I don't trust anything that thing says.

My back still hurts at the end of the day.

Edited by takefootoff, 08 October 2018 - 23:21.


#10 V-any

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 10:59

Neither the inclinometer nor the Aspen will tell you if the helicopter is in trim. Only the string will. The string points straight back when it's in trim. This was answered in the first reply.

 

Everyone pay attention: ... It's just a string. Not a magical string that knows where the pilot sits and points to him when it's in trim, it's just a damn string. When air hits it from the front, it points aft. When air hits it from the side, it points to the opposite side.

 

... sometimes helicopter pilots amaze me.


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#11 WolftalonID

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 12:25

The aspens inclometer should be accurate for trim if installed properly.
Sometimes we think we know it all....only later to discover we only knew all we had learned. Never stop learning.

#12 Azhigher

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 12:30

My back still hurts at the end of the day.

 

Oh buddy, if that's your judge of trim I've been out of trim since flight school.


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#13 V-any

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 12:45

The aspens inclometer should be accurate for trim if installed properly.

 

Trim and balance (ball in the center) are two different things.


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#14 supergokougt

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 13:47

Fellas, please.

I really have no clue on this one.

I'll get it cruising straight and level tap each of the pedals (slightly) and it still won't feel 'right.

Got an Aspen MFD/PFD installed and I don't trust anything that thing says.

My back still hurts at the end of the day.

 

If back pain an issue I got the relaxoback seat and lumbar pillow to help with back pain after hours in a B2. And really try and keep that back straight. Really helped with the shifting in the seat after about 2 hours. 

 

https://www.amazon.c...ds=relax o back


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#15 Wally

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 15:14

My back still hurts at the end of the day.

 

That's mandatory in helicopters, isn't it?  Better seats help.  The older Astar fiberglass bucket seats were the worst I sat in over 48 years of flying.  The newer, energy attenuating seats were much better.


Just a pilot (retired, so I have a LOT of time)...


#16 Hand_Grenade_Pilot

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Posted 09 October 2018 - 19:57

Youre overthinking it mate. Just fly what feels right.

I hated having a trim string on the AS350. It annoyed the hell out of me. As silly as it sounds, I just didnt like seeing a little wire sticking out with a string. A weird pet peeve I guess. I would keep the wire in the little hook so I wouldnt have to look at it. Every time ground crew came over to hot load, they thought I had forgot to unhook the trim wire during preflight; as theyd reach to unhook it Id try to wave them off only to get a confused look.
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Aviation is a cruel mistress. When she's not taking your money, she's coming up with creative ways to kill you.

#17 takefootoff

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 00:17

Would ya'l consider me crazy if I'd say trim at night feels different than trim in the daylight?

#18 takefootoff

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 00:23

No I would say straight at your head. Not inline with the pillar.

I'm kinda with you on this one man, straight and level, 70% trq or so, little bit of left pedal and right cyclic 'feels' right (correct) trim string slightly pointed at my dome...

Or is it the other way around? Oh gosh.

Edited by takefootoff, 10 October 2018 - 00:27.

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#19 takefootoff

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 00:25

Youre overthinking it mate. Just fly what feels right.

I hated having a trim string on the AS350. It annoyed the hell out of me. As silly as it sounds, I just didnt like seeing a little wire sticking out with a string. A weird pet peeve I guess. I would keep the wire in the little hook so I wouldnt have to look at it. Every time ground crew came over to hot load, they thought I had forgot to unhook the trim wire during preflight; as theyd reach to unhook it Id try to wave them off only to get a confused look.


Dunno if it's a curse or a blessing at this point, was awfully keen on getting over the 'Bell back' transitioning into the squirrel. Time will tell.

#20 Eric Hunt

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 01:28

The worst Bell Back is from the Huey - sitting on a sagging mesh seat, leaning slightly left to reach the collective, hunched forward after several hours of hash-and-trash, head tilted upward to see over the instrument coaming, and the helmet adding some weight, and getting bounced up and down with the famous Huey 1:1 wok wok wok.

 

No wonder I have neck problems and a back that does not tolerate sitting still very long.






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