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Building Time?


cranman

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I have had a great deal of dificulty finding employment due to a lack of experience, so I am wondering if there are a others in the same predicament. How many of you are paying for time after receiving your CPL? What follows is an idea to get additional time and not pay for it. Read on...

 

What I am looking to do is start a helicopter operation that specializes in gaining low time pilots there first 300-600 hours and not have to do the CFI approach. This also gives you experience in the business, because you have to come up with the job to pay yourself and for the helicopter. Everything above the  helicopter rent (130.00 HR.)is yours.

 

Things that are currently possible:

150 hrs Min. photo flights only.

200 hrs Min. joy rides (within 5 miles of origination point)

230 hrs. Min. Instructing part 61 only

400 hrs Min. cherry drying, corn/plant pollination.

No spraying

All Ideas would evaluated one on one.

Partial owners can be insured at lower times. $5000.00 Min buy in.

 

I currently have one R-22 and I am using it for joyrides. I am working on securing cherry and corn contracts for this year.

Comments are welcome

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Be careful with joy rides, be sure you are under an FAA approved drug program. This has been a problem with several start up companies. It can be a very good business though. This is a good time of year to start, check out your states festival schedule, use the contact info on the schudule and offer a percentage of the revenue, 10% is standard. They will be able to tell you of the attendance in the past, choose two or three day events, don't over look the small one, they are sometimes the best. If you work it right you should be busy every weekend until October fest. The next time you will be able to do rides are for the Christmas lights. Be sure you have a good loader, and they understand not to allow anyone near the tail rotor. Good luck
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Looking at your scale of experience, you are making it look like photo flights are the easiest and least dangerous.

 

I feel that the photo flights I used to do were my highest liability and most dangerous.  Photographers ALWAYS want you low and slow--and as luck would have it, almost always downwind.  Go through the NTSB records and see how many photoflight crashes have been attributed to VRS.

 

I've had photo flights that have put me under runway approaches with 737s and MD80s just a few hundred feet above me, in between buildings, next to guy wires for transmission towers, and 5ft off the water at 80+ knots filming boats.  And EVERYTIME, the photographer wants to be closer.

 

On photo flights, you need to know "when to say when".  I had some of the most off the wall requests that there was NO WAY we could pull it off.  But, most of the amateurs would call and not give you all the info.  Then they'd tell you when you got on site and I would do a 180 back to the airport.  These people think a helicopter can get anywhere and do anything.

 

Unless you're photographing farms, I would reserve photo flights for the most experienced pilots.  Having a low-timer is just asking for an accident.

 

Plus, they're a high liability with the FAA since you have to maintain a "safe altitude and a/s".  People won't notice or get a tail # if you zoom over their house at 200 ft and 80+ knots, but if you circle once or twice, they'll call the FAA.  And then you have to defend yourself.  In a downtown setting, their interpretation of that may be 1000 AGL--who knows, but you are the defendant.  Ever seen the FAA's brochure called "Reporting Low Flying Aircraft" brochure that they hand out.  Go by the FSDO and pick a few up.......

 

Photo flights are a major liability for helicopter pilots.  It gets us too close to the public.

 

-Jonathan

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...to further the point: from Robinson newsletter Spring 2002 http://www.robinsonheli.com/NewsletterSpring2002.pdf

 

Safety Spotlight: Letter from Injured Photographer

 

Dear Mr. Robinson,

 

I am writing to ask you a favor. As you may recall, the R22 I was in on 7/1/00 went down, due to settling with power in East Northport, Long Island, New York. Through an act of God, I am walking and talking today, and I believe the pilot is doing fairly well.  

 

Here’s the favor: Please remind all of your Dealers and Schools to follow very closely the Safety Notice (SN-34) you sent me a while ago, which states that any commercial pilot on a photo flight mission with a photographer must have a minimum of 500 hours in the R22. My whole situation and much time, effort, labor (not to mention money, pain and suffering) could have been totally avoided had the people I flew with that day followed your Safety Notice. I believe the FAA requires all Safety Notices to be read and followed by all pilots. This makes a lot of sense! After talking to some people in and around airports, I’ve heard that one of the ways low-time pilots can build their hours is to do photo flights! This is a big mistake! This can be fatal!

 

Please remind your people across the country and world that photo flights require much skill and a lot of experience. Accidents of this nature are no good for anyone, and I believe are avoidable.

 

Since 1986, I’ve had a lot of good experiences in an R22, it’s quite a versatile machine. I have not been back in an R22 since the crash, it shook me up quite a bit. Luckily, we were only 150 feet AGL or so. Keep up the good work, and please remind your people from time to time!

 

Yours truly,

Mark Fitzgerald

January 25, 2002

 

...and Safety Notice SN-34

 

Safety Notice SN-34

 

lssued: Mar 99

 

PHOTO FLIGHTS - VERY HIGH RISK

 

There is a misconception that photo flights can be flown safely by low time pilots. Not true. There have been numerous fatal accidents during photo flights, including several involving R22 helicopters.

 

Often, to please the photographer, an inexperienced pilot will slow the helicopter to less than 30 KIAS and then attempt to maneuver for the best picture angle. While maneuvering, the pilot may lose track of airspeed and wind conditions. The helicopter can rapidly lose translational lift and begin to settle. An inexperienced pilot may raise the collective to stop the descent. This can reduce RPM thereby reducing power available and causing an even greater descent rate and further loss of RPM. Rolling on throttle will increase rotor torque but not power available due to the low RPM. Because tail rotor thrust is proportional to the square of RPM, if the RPM drops below 80% nearly one-half of the tail rotor thrust is lost and the helicopter will rotate nose right. Suddenly the decreasing RPM also causes the main rotor to stall and the helicopter falis rapidly while continuing to rotate. The resulting impact is usually fatal.

 

Photo flights should only be conducted by well trained, experienced pilots who:

 

1) Have at least 500 hours pilot-in-comnland in helicopters and over 100 hours in the model flown;

 

2) Have extensive training in both low RPM and settling-with- power recovery techniques; ,

 

3) Are willing to say NO to the photographer and only fly the aircraft at speeds, altitudes, and wind angles that are safe and allow good escape routes.

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I don't want to piss on your fire but I don't find it such a good idea unless you have an expeianced pilot running your operation (From your post I understood you were quite low time anout 130 hours or so)

 

When I started instructing, flying photo flights & giving trips in the heli, I had low hours but I worked at a company where the other pilots & chief pilots (Pilots with at least 3000 hours) Took you under there wing (So to speak) and looked after you.

 

Based on this I find the CFI route a good one you will learn a #### of lot about flying and you have a chief flight instructor who keeps an eye on you.

 

Photo flights (Delorean has summed things up here) Just to say photographers will realy push you to your limits and beyond if you let them, They often ask you to hang still in the HV curve or even start flying backwards etc. OK the chance of your engine stoping is remote but you have a HIGH chance of loosing control in these situations.

 

I general most photographers have no idea what can be done safely with a heli all they want is to get there shots.

 

Joy-rides, If your able to land and take off into wind maybe you won't have to many problems but in my expeiance a lot of the places I've give joy-ride there is only 1 direction to land & take off, So you are at least going to have a crosswind or worst tailwindeither on the approach or climb out.

 

I accept pilots need to do this to gain experiance but it should be done under the supervission of an experianced pilot.

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I forgot to tell everyone they have to carry there own renters insurance, unless working on our contracts. The photo flights are for an insurance company, 2300 clients in 4 states. All ranches, farms and factories. They want to replace the sat. photos they are using at $2100.00 each... No city flying. The photos are digital and there is no photographer on board. You are required to be at 3000 agl for what they want. I have about 180 hours in rotorcraft, more in fixed wing, but know one cares about fixed wing here. Thanks for the info on the drug program, I'll check it out. I will post the contact number once I have the buyoff from my insurance company.

 

The Idea behind this was to see if anyone would be interested, thats all. The jobs listed are examples only, and the photo flight listed was for our contract. Not taking pictures on boats & houses.

 

The cheif pilot has over 5000 hours.

 

Thanks for the input. ::rotorhead::

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Here's the link to that previousely mentioned accident: N94RP accident  The guy had only owned that helicopter for about 3 days.  He had just bought it from a friend of mine.  Absolutely beautiful R22, what a shame.

 

Read the report.....it's funny how the pilot "forgot" what happened.  The photographer knew exactly what happened and no problems telling the FSDO since it wasn't his license on the line.

 

Here's another good one: Another accident  In the news articles, the guy blamed it on an engine failure.

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Hi Cranman

 

It does sound interesting, If you can get the contract go for it.

 

When you say the photos are digitel I presume there is a fixed camera on the heli (Not a hand held camera) For safety if I was you I would have the Chief Pilot fly along with you for maybe 50 hours. As long as you don't loose your airspeed things should work out.

 

What you explained earlier was a bit different.

 

Good Luck.

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Just curious Delorian, do you stay up at night looking through accident reports? I agree we should learn from the past, but your first posting drove the point home. Thank you for your concerns.

 

Just a thought:

When is the last time any of you opened a car owners manual and saw that the last 50 or so pages include ways past owners have killed themselves (R-22 POH). Of course they probably should, cars would be safer. The faint of heart do not fly helicopters.

 

In this Business every edge or experience you can gain, betters your chances out there. My job is to make this safe and possible for all the pilots here.

 

I will keep you posted as soon as I can make this work. I truely believe that people will line up to do anything with there new licenses. I currently know of 4 new CFI's that have not landed a job yet. Its not as rosey out there as the picture the schools are painting...

 

Just never give up.

Thanks for everyones input.

:)

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Cranman, if I'm working nights, then YES!  In all honesty, I've probably read every helicopter accident report posted in the last 5 years.  It's just in my daily routine of reading posts on here and JH, reading the local news, and checking the NTSB monthly accident reports.  It gets pretty boring here at the base, so I have to have some sort of routine to keep myself occupied and subsequently, sane.  Now that its summer time I can at least get outside everyday to wash the helicopter, BBQ, hit golf balls.  EMS life rocks!

 

-Jonathan

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Hi Cranman, How are things going?

 

You never realy answered my questions on the camera. You said there was no camera man on board.

 

This made me presume you would be in the heli alone isthat true?

 

If so how do you take the photos?

 

Fixed camera (Bolted to heli)?

 

or

 

Do you have to hold the camera in your hand? Not to easy or safe if your flying.

 

I think you see where I'm coming from.

 

All the best Dean.

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Sorry, just got back from a 24 hour straight roadtrip, yes they are mounted to a bubbled left door (inside of door), two digital cameras, one digital video camera and a 64bit laptop velcro'd to the seat. In all about 30 lbs worth. We are using a hook release switch to start & stop the photos. Once active the cameras take a photo every second until stopped. The pilot just looks for his target on the laptop screen and starts the cameras. The pilot doesn't touch the laptop or cameras in flight.

 

A second person could ride in the helicopter, but they would have to hold the laptop and have no controls. Not a good thing.

 

The worst part is that the door has to stay on, and it is going to get hot.

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It sounds like a good set up for the equipment (I fly pipe line in Belgium with a simuler set up, But we also have an observer to operate the camera & laptop)

 

My only advice would be take out the dual controls just incase something come free anf fix the lap top also, The hold your airspeed.

 

When we started useing the laptop in our helicopters we had a problem with power for the laptop (Hot swaping batterys etc)

 

So we bought a power covertor that coverts 12 volt power to 230 volt (Europe) You can get a 110 volt for the states.

 

We also found if the lap top battery power was below about 85% the circuit breaker for the 12 volt power alway's pop't out because the system could not supply enough power to operate the laptop & recharge the laptop battery at the same time.

 

We solved this by making sure the battery was fully charged on the laptop or simply taking the battery out the laptop and running on the power supply from the heli. We had to fit a 10 AMP circuit breaker. The lower amp CBs kep't popping out.

 

I hope this is of some help.

 

Good luck and keep those air vents open.

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  • 4 weeks later...
Just curious Delorian, do you stay up at night looking through accident reports? I agree we should learn from the past, but your first posting drove the point home. Thank you for your concerns.

cranman,

 

Staying up late and reading accident reports might someday save your life. The Air Force feels so strongly about getting out the information contained in it's accident reports that aircrews get briefed on virtually every accident for the model aircraft they fly, and even reports from other types if they perform a similar mission. Remember, those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

 

And, yes, I usually go to the NTSB website once a month or so and read the latest accident reports as I feel strongly about this subject as well. Of course, I was a Safety Officer for a while during my 23 years in the service.

 

Doug

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Delorian, I wish I had your time and job. Keep flying safe. Your thoughts and input are in very high regard with me and others on this forum.

Thanks

::rotorhead::

No you don't want Jonathan's job. Not talking bad about EMS or his company, but single pilot in a 206L doing EMS is not for everyone. Been there done that, been out of it too long and working on some more training.

 

BTW, thanks Jonathan for the recommendation and sorry it didn't work out. Never did get a reply from you via e-mail. Of course that could be because your name becomes mud in the industry when you fail.

 

It's OK, Apache's rock and I'm havin a blast. Anyone gonna be at Mother Rucker in Oct?

 

 

::potty::

 

Gary

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Sandman,

 

I'm here at Rucker right now in BCS... are you here?

 

Alex

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Sandman,

 

I'm here at Rucker right now in BCS... are you here?

 

Alex

Alex,

 

Not yet, but I'm scheduled to transition into Apache's in October. No firm date yet. Flying Hueys, 58's and occasionally Apache with the NC Guard.

 

Gary

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  • 3 weeks later...

This is a very hard message to write. This business has gone away, I was in a car wreck, I will not be worring about building time or flying, for a long time. Neck, Back and shoulder are messed up, it will be 4 months to a year before I will fly again. My surgery is to be in a couple of weeks on my shoulder. Look for me to be in a poor house somewhere.  I will never give up on flying.

 

My picture taking days are over as well, the company that I was taking them for pulled the plug due to costs. I have almost 10k of equipment for sale, email if you need a cutting edge camera or laptop.

 

I've been told I shouldn't ever give up, it is just hard to believe right now.

Smooth flights to all... And to all, get your CFI and teach.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Alex,

 

Not yet, but I'm scheduled to transition into Apache's in October. No firm date yet. Flying Hueys, 58's and occasionally Apache with the NC Guard.

 

Gary

Gary,

 

Good stuff man, I'll be here through October 21st, then I move on to Ft. Benning.

 

Alex

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  • 4 months later...
As a high time fixed pilot (and maybe soon to be heli pilot), I can say that I learned more about flying a plane when I started instructing than I ever did before or since.  Instructing is the best way to get started.  I have heard some guys say that instruction is only one hour done a thousand times, but not so.  That one hour is different with every flight.
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