Rob Lyman Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 I have a commercial helicopter & airplane with instrument ratings. I also have a CFI airplane single engine land. I am completing my CFII airplane in the next couple of weeks and will start on my CFI/CFII helicopter after that. Up until now, all of my helicopter time has been in a Bell Jet Ranger or Navy SH-60B. I plan to do my CFI/CFII helicopter training in an R-22. Here is my question: Do I have to have 50 hours in an R-22 to go on my CFI/CFII checkrides? SFAR-73 says I can fly an R-22 with as little as 10 hrs dual. It would kind of suck to pay for additional hours to pad my way up to 50 hrs if my actual CFI/CFII training only took about 20 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 Regarding SFAR 73-1 and your case: (a)(2) applies to you, and you do meet the experience requirements of ((2)...therefore all you need is the training as per ((2) (ii) Note: This is of course in addition to the (a)(3) training that everyone must get. Pretty simple really! Just note, you must have 2 separate endorsemements...one for (a)(3)(i-iv) as required in paragraph (a)(1). You should get this one before you start your training. And the other for ((1)(ii)(a-d) as required in paragraph ((1)(ii) which you'll get at the end of your 10 hours. I have had many students who were missing one of these endorsements....many instructors it seems don't know the rules properly...(some examiners too apparantly!) Or you could ask the examiner to be PIC (not likely) and then all you would need is the training as per (a)(3). Remember that if you are planning to tech in the R22, then you will need the 50 hrs, as required by ((5). Lastly, remember too that, while the SFAR requires 10 hours, it may take you more than 10 hours before you / your instructor feel that you are profficient to be PIC. Again, this was a problem I faced occasionally, with students upset because they / I didn't feel they were ready exactly at 10 hrs. This aircraft is a killer if flown badly...this is not a minimum to scrimp on! Hope this helps. Good luck. Joker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delorean Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 You can take the checkride at anytime, as long as you are able to act as PIC under SFAR 73 (at least 10 hrs with the awareness training & endorsement.) After you hit the 50 hrs total R22 time, then you will be able to act as CFI. Call you examiner ahead of time. Sometimes, they'll give you a provisional endorsement that says something like "when applicant meets the minimums as perscribed by SFAR 73-......can act as CFI.....blah, blah." Or they'll send you the sticker when you hit 50 hrs. OR, in the worst case, you might need to take a second short flight with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 Delorean (and Fling), Just to be picky...where does it say that you must be PIC to take a checkride? To all intense an purpose, Delorean is right...not many examiners are going to agree to be PIC, but 61.47 (I think) does allow the examiner to be PIC for a flight test. Next question...(just to get the brains thinking). Q. If the above is true (examiner's are not normally PIC), then who is PIC when a student pilot (without a pilot certificate) takes an initial rating checkride, given that his student pilot certificate allows PIC when solo only! Joker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flingwing206 Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 As soon as you are qualified to act as PIC as per SFAR 73, you may take a CFI and CFII checkride in the R22. You will then be a helicopter CFI/CFII. It doesn't matter in which aircraft you take the checkride . So yes, you can get a CFI rating in the R22 with less than 50 hours in the R22. You're still a CFI, you just can't teach in Robinsons. To be a CFI in the R22, you need 50 hours of PIC in the R22 and the SFAR 73 CFI endorsement. This is completely seperate from a CFI practical test. You can take the SFAR "ride" before you have 50 hours, however the endorsement is not valid UNTIL you have the 50 hours. Per the FARs, as soon as you have your CFI rating, you are qualified to teach in the B206 (since you have 5 hours). Now insurance companies may see differently... Hope all goes well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Lyman Posted December 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 Per the FARs, as soon as you have your CFI rating, you are qualified to teach in the B206 (since you have 5 hours). Now insurance companies may see differently... Hope all goes well! Thanks everyone. I was really concerned about needing the 50 hours before my CFI/CFII checkrides. I am doing this part 141 with VA benefits that run out at the end of February 2006. I am pretty sure it will take me more than 10 hours to be ready for a checkride. I haven't flown rotary wing in awhile and my last rotary wing flying was in SH-60B/F/Hs. I actually have about 125 hrs in the 206B. Would that be enough to instruct, insurance-wise? I have 1300 total helicopter hours. Regarding the aircraft being a "killer if flown badly", are we talking about no agressive floating kneeboard manuevers and/or aggressive cyclic movement while unloaded or are you saying you have to be VERY cautious with lowering the collective and any cyclic movement? I am not trying to get the whole jist of the training, but just wondering if it will take a significant amount of different muscle memory training to fly the R-22/R-44 or if it is only slighty different from other helicopters. If I had to guess I would think it would fly more like the TH-57B models that I flew vs the TH-57C or SH-60B/F/Hs I flew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Regarding the aircraft being a "killer if flown badly", are we talking about no agressive floating kneeboard manuevers and/or aggressive cyclic movement while unloaded or are you saying you have to be VERY cautious with lowering the collective and any cyclic movement? Please, please, please do not try and float your kneeboard in a Robinson..... You won't be around very long if you get that rotor unloaded.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joker Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 Rob, You'll have no problem if you give the aircraft the same respect that you would for the Sea Hawk. I said,"It's a killer if flown badly!". Well, the caveat to that is, "Its a great aircraft if flown well!" Listen to the instructor and things will go fine. Without wanting to go into detail (there are plenty of other threads about this), things you will need to watch for are: The characteristics of the low-intertia system. This means that the RPM moves (up and down) very quickly.The light weight of the aircraft...turbulance can unload the disk.High rotor mast and teetering head. If you can't land the slope pick it up and try a new one.No George / DECU, so you have to fly it 100%Don't trust the fuel gagues! Good luck with your endeavours! Joker P.S. Regarding my question earlier, the answer lies in 61.31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flingwing206 Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 P.S. Regarding my question earlier, the answer lies in 61.31- k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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