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An SSH Student Finally Speaks


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#41 clarity

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Posted 31 August 2007 - 10:47

yo,what is with the pointing out of someone else's obvious mistake? don't you think an 8 grand bite get's that point across much better than comments from strangers? I am fully aware of what happened with my situation, and the mistakes that i made, thanks for the "constructive criticism" to put it lightly, but i'm all set with that. I didn't come on here to get questioned and bombarded with " why did you do this? and "man, what were you thinkin?" No,,,The point of this was to illustrate a scenario, FIRST HAND, oh how a particular school operates, and this could happen to ANYBODY... you join, and have every intention of finishing (like i did), but then god forbid, a loss of a loved one, a medical condition, your wife land a six figure job in another state..... WHATEVER....something happens, life changes. So this story, my story, is to re-emphasize what a couple members here have soo kindly pointed out... don't sign a contract.


I didn't come here looking for sympathy, i'm a big boy, but i sure as hell didn't come here looking to be of some great amusment to strangers in Houston Texas. or anyone else for that matter..

all that said,, i am sure that all this will definitly be of some great assistance to other would be students, and that was the original intention, soo, mission accomplished i guess.


good luck

#42 shuvelhead

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Posted 31 August 2007 - 14:54

I'm sorry to say it, but you are a moron. After all the bad things you heard about SSH, you still went and signed up. I have no simpathy for you. When are you people gonna wake up? Stupid, stupid, stupid!

#43 nicepants

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Posted 31 August 2007 - 15:49

[another SSH story]


I'm sorry to hear that you are now in the unfortunate situation that you're in. Whether you got yourself into it or not, you're stuck there and that's no fun. I'm not sure what state (geographic) your contract is in, and I am not a lawyer, but if you could find a lawyer to take the case, he or she might be able to get your money back, but you'd end up spending a good percentage of it on legal fees.

I'd say, if you got an offer for a job that you really want, that will pay for all of your training....that job is worth way more than the $8k you'd lose walking out of SSH. I know it's gonna sting, but if you look at the $200,000 or so after interest that you'd spend to get your training at SSH vs the paid training, it would be WELL worth it to walk away from the $8000. That would be much better than finishing the training, ending up with $200k in debt, and having no way to pay it back. (it would cost a lot more than $8,000 at that point)

(I didn't come up with the $200k number, I think I saw someone else mention that...so substitute in the correct number if that's wrong)

I'm currently waiting for a supermodel to come by & say she wants me to be her personal helicopter pilot and cover the rest of my training. Until that happens, I'm doing my training bit-by-bit. Buying R22 by the 10-hour-block, and instruction in blocks of 3. At least this way I'm not digging myself into debt with the hopes that I'll be able to get myself back out. If anything happens that forces me to walk away from my training, at most I'm out a few rented hours in the robbie.
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#44 DeezNutz

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Posted 31 August 2007 - 16:07

Your lucky to make 10-15 dollars per flight hour anywhere else, when SSH pays flight, ground, and pre and post instruction. If you show motivation to be a CFI, and willing to work hard, I can assure you there is a CFI, and many others behind him, at your location willing to work hard for you.


I don't know where you are getting your averages... but my company pays their instructors $20 per hour to start, with raises and bonuses, for flight and ground and some pre-post when warranted.

I see you are in Oakland... does SSH have a school there? Are you a current student with SSH?

Its been my experience with ex SSH students and CFIs that the average guy that acutally makes it to CFI with them takes 2 years to get there. My first two CFIIs took about 10 months...

So in the 2 years you are connected to the SSH Kool-aid IV there in CA... everyone who went to a reputable place got done, got 1000+ hours and is working somewhere as a "REAL" pilot... not some blood sucking instructor who is willing to overlook the exceptional moral and ethical depravtiy that SSH is unleashing into our small community, taking advantage of the dreams of other human beings and their trust in someone who is supposed to be a mentor.

there is no word in the english language that can describe how sickening this situation is to me...

D

#45 DeezNutz

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Posted 31 August 2007 - 16:33

When you sign up, Silver State is not only paying for supplies like books that will be given to you right away up front, but they are taking your word that you will fill a spot in a ground class, and fill a spot for a CFI.


I will address this and then I am out of this thread... its been done enough already.

According to recent reports on many forums... SSH gets all the cash (around $70,000) up front once the contract is signed and approved, and 10% becomes non-refundable per month.

SSH is not fronting the student anything... its the other way around... sounds to me like you are the ignorant one who either did not read/understand the contract, or you are choosing to ignore a mistake that you made as well... either way, your immediate attack on someone who is a new-comer to this industry does not look good... and if you maintain your current level of professionalism it will not help you get into the stable and better paying jobs in this industry... in fact it is detrimental to the industry on the whole.

Good luck Mr. UnderTheHood, seriously... I wish no-one any harm in this SSH debacle...

D

#46 Goldy

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Posted 31 August 2007 - 18:22

SSH reminds me of a song...The Eagles...Hotel California..."You can check in any time you like but you can never leave". !!

Edited by Goldy, 01 September 2007 - 15:33.

Fly Safe !!

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#47 NOETIME

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Posted 01 September 2007 - 17:14


I knew full well they're reputation, and what I was getting myself into, and I can't explain it, but for some reason, I really did have some ominous feeling about going thru with it.



Hey Man,
It's unfortunate that you had to learn a hard lesson like that but the positive side of it is that you now know a bit more about using your own intuition! People can tell you anything but if you use your intuition and do some reasearch you can save yourself alot of headache. You've just got to learn how to trust it. Anyway, I hope everything works out for ya! Peace B)

P.S. It's ok to be upset with yourself for screwing up and wanting to do better but when your done kicking your own a**, make sure you laugh at yourself! After that, it won't matter too much what others think.


My .02
"Courage is doing what your afraid to do. There can be no courage unless your scared". Eddie Rickenbacker

#48 clarity

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Posted 01 September 2007 - 17:39

Hey Man,
It's unfortunate that you had to learn a hard lesson like that but the positive side of it is that you now know a bit more about using your own intuition! People can tell you anything but if you use your intuition and do some reasearch you can save yourself alot of headache. You've just got to learn how to trust it. Anyway, I hope everything works out for ya! Peace B)

P.S. It's ok to be upset with yourself for screwing up and wanting to do better but when your done kicking your own a**, make sure you laugh at yourself! After that, it won't matter too much what others think.
My .02



well said, thank you.

#49 clarity

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Posted 01 September 2007 - 22:51

I'm sorry to say it, but you are a moron. After all the bad things you heard about SSH, you still went and signed up. I have no simpathy for you. When are you people gonna wake up? Stupid, stupid, stupid!



my previous message to "clay" totally stands with you....


email- clarity4@gmail.com

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#50 clarity

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Posted 02 September 2007 - 00:04

your immediate attack on someone who is a new-comer to this industry does not look good... and if you maintain your current level of professionalism it will not help you get into the stable and better paying jobs in this industry... in fact it is detrimental to the industry on the whole.

Good luck Mr. UnderTheHood, seriously... I wish no-one any harm in this SSH debacle.





=====thank god i'm not the only one noticing things=======

Edited by clarity, 02 September 2007 - 00:08.


#51 Linc

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Posted 02 September 2007 - 09:40

If you could really measure an individual passing rate for all aviation schools in the U.S., you can count on that it is in the 10-20%. That is just the way it is.

The only difference is that SSH figured out how to rape them as they try to leave.

Linc

For this gull, though, it was not eating that mattered, but flight. More than anything else. Jonathan Livingston Seagull loved to fly.


#52 Five0

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Posted 02 September 2007 - 11:14

alright... im sorry... :)
P.S. i never said you were an idiot. the WORST i said was that it was dumb to sign up for something you KNEW would be a scam.... as far as being out of line? i dont think i was.. i can have an opinion. and as far as coming to to Tampa FL so you can "break my mouth" while i try to explain, i would say that reminds me of kindergarten..... "im gonna beat you up for saying that!!! haha.. have a great day!



I'm sure his CFI would love his personality.

I agree with you. Why would anyone go in to that agreement already knowing SS's reputation?
And what's up with that picture? Did Vanilla Ice join the forum without telling anyone?

5-0

#53 clay

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Posted 03 September 2007 - 15:24

I'm sure his CFI would love his personality.

I agree with you. Why would anyone go in to that agreement already knowing SS's reputation?
And what's up with that picture? Did Vanilla Ice join the forum without telling anyone?

5-0


BWHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!! man.. i've been outta town a few days, plus not trying to post on this topic anymore, but that was hilarious too! maybe if his CFI doesnt sign him off in time, he'll break his jaw too.
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#54 wannabe heli pilot

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 20:28

Clarity at least sounds like he's got a pair. You two sound like some recip pole smokers. I doubt you take him up on his offer.
Be not afraid of growing slowing. Be only afraid of standing still.

#55 wannabe heli pilot

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 20:35

Clarity at least sounds like he's got a pair. You two sound like some recip pole smokers. I doubt you take him up on his offer.

Did I just say that out loud?
Be not afraid of growing slowing. Be only afraid of standing still.

#56 Worldcrime

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Posted 06 September 2007 - 20:39

First off, I must say to the original poster of this topic, you are an idiot. Don't go bashing a company that you signed up for just because you didn't read the contract. When you sign up, Silver State is not only paying for supplies like books that will be given to you right away up front, but they are taking your word that you will fill a spot in a ground class, and fill a spot for a CFI. So not only are the ground instructor and CFI being paid to teach you, but it takes a hundred other people behind them, including HR department, accounting, Insurance, managers, maintenance setting everything up for you, all because you decided you wanted to make a career out of flying helicopters. Yes it is very expensive. So are ALL OTHER FLIGHT SCHOOLS! And lets put it this way, there is no career in this country for a private helicopter pilot under a couple hundred hours. So unless you plan to do this for pleasure, your going to need your commercial/CFI. Silver States passing rate isn't perfect, but it is on par with the Aviation world. If you could really measure an individual passing rate for all aviation schools in the U.S., you can count on that it is in the 10-20%. That is just the way it is. But I can tell you something that would increase that figure. Idiots who don't sign up for something they do not intend to finish. People not motivated to work hard and make sacrifices in order to fly the necessary 2-3 times per week, and spend the hours studying at home. If you can't live up to that, then none of this business is for you. Stay out of it. Just because you couldn't hack the training, and it was too hard and much for you to understand, don't go whining about it looking for pity. SSH is the best paying job for new CFIs. Your lucky to make 10-15 dollars per flight hour anywhere else, when SSH pays flight, ground, and pre and post instruction. If you show motivation to be a CFI, and willing to work hard, I can assure you there is a CFI, and many others behind him, at your location willing to work hard for you.


Ponzi scheme
defined

A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that involves paying abnormally high rewards to investors out of the money paid in by subsequent investors, rather than from net revenues generated by any real business.

#57 IFLY

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 01:16

Ok, time for my 2 cents worth.

If your willing to spend $70,000 dollars for your CFII you should be dying to fly for a living and make a real commitment to flying and studying. If your just in it for the money your looking in the wrong place. That new job offer from the FAA, is it something you want to do for a living or is it just a way to make money faster to spend on flying? Your answer to that should tell you if you really want to be a professional pilot.

Do you want to fly now or later? Later... save your money for years, Now...then take a loan. Works just like buying a house, if you sell it after a month your going to lose quite a bit of cash-more than you did on leaving the flight school contract.

SSH provides a contract that locks in the hourly rate for 2 years while the traditional schools raise their rates if the price of gas goes up. It also includes unlimited ground training and simulator time, handy for the instrument rating. If you need to move they might have another school nearby to transfer to without changing the contract, they are very flexible for students that are active.

About those 1700 students and 500 jobs, the students take 1 1/2 to 2 years for their ratings (while most work full time) and the instructors leave for other jobs in about a year or so. Life happens and some students and CFI's have to drop out so the bulk of the new CFI's do have a job at 200 hours, most without having to move. Most other schools hire some of their graduates to fill vacancies so they have the under 500 hour instructors teaching too, it's not just SSH that does it.

I have flown with about 30+ instructors in everything from hanggliders to helicopters and experience does help but it isn't everything. I'll take a good inexperienced teacher over a mediocre experienced teacher everytime.

Everybody that hasn't flown and thinks they want to do it for a living should find a school and try if for at least a few hours. SSH isn't the place to find that out, you should know that before you sign anybodys contract. IF you find that you REALLY want to fly all the time then SSH is a school to consider.

How you finance your flying is up to you, I have a house with equity that I used. I can almost afford the payments on a CFI salary and i'm not defering any payments to keep the interest costs down. I am saving enough money to make up a shortfall for at least a year because it will take about that long for me to break even after pay raises (I think its about $20 per hour after 500 hours).

Most of the SSH bashing seems to come from people that didn't do ALL of their homework and decided to quit without knowing the consequences. Yes they are flooding the market with new pilots...all the other schools wish they could do it too and make more money...its a business. The CFIs that leave with their 1000 hours+ don't seem to have trouble finding work so their flying must be up to par with other schools.

Clarity I hope you find out what you really want to do, I have always wanted to fly for a living and I finally can at 50.
Jerry
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#58 fry

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 09:18

Everybody that hasn't flown and thinks they want to do it for a living should find a school and try if for at least a few hours. SSH isn't the place to find that out, you should know that before you sign anybodys contract.

SSH provides a contract that locks in the hourly rate for 2 years while the traditional schools raise their rates if the price of gas goes up. It also includes unlimited ground training and simulator time, handy for the instrument rating.


Good advice. And another way to put it, SSH provides a contract that advances all of the student's loan monies to the company within six months of starting the two year program and, it makes it that money non-refundable at a rate of 10% a month. In other words, after ten months the student is fully committed to twenty years of payments whether or not he ever gets a job flying helicopters.

Paying $70k in advance to any company just seems to be a awful risky thing to do.

As far as a cost of goes, SSH's one-price program is currently $12k to $15k higher in price (for 200 flight hours and all the ground and sim time necessay) than some other flight schools in the same markets. That covers a lot of gas price increase.

Most of the SSH bashing seems to come from people that didn't do ALL of their homework and decided to quit without knowing the consequences.


I gotta agree with you there. But why is that? Why would so many people make such a huge committment in future loan payments and then not go all the way? They're making an upfront decision that is very expensive and non-reversible after a short time.

I've read that SSH's completion rate is in the 10% to 20% range and that's broadly consistent with their figures (4,000 students since inception, 1,700 currently, and 500 jobs...personally I think it is at the lower end of the range). That means 4 out of 5 folks who sign up and make that big upfront committment lose some or all of that $70k...plus interest. That many "people that didn't do ALL of their homework"?

For so many to risk and lose so much I've got to believe SSH is not making the risks clear to their prospective customers. But then, why would they.

And that's my two cents.

#59 betr_thn_Icarus

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 10:03

Clarity,

I went to a very small school to start and some of those students were screwed out of more than you when the school took the big flop, some up to $20,000. They even screwed the helicopter leasing companies, yes plural, don't you think those guys reviewed the situation? They also owe the airport, I saw them screw CFI's and business partners. Some things in life require risk, scratch that, EVERYTHING in life but some morre than others. The thing about con-men is they seem so damn trustworthy...otherwise would they really be a con-man if nobody ever trusted them in the first place? It can happen to anyone. Sometimes people just have to trust people...shame on the ones that take advantage of that. I trusted and got taken advantage of, then I persued it and didn't stop untill I was even.

People who drilled it in to Clarity that he made a mistake.. everyone makes mistakes. If your mistakes or secrets were exposed you wouldn't be so cocky.

Clarity, for making physical threats, grow up man. I was on your side untill you did that crap.
"Semper Rotatus" -me

#60 betr_thn_Icarus

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Posted 07 September 2007 - 10:06

You should also be happy if your new boss never reads this.
"Semper Rotatus" -me




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