IFR crews in EMS?

[Hellaheli]

I am currently a CFI/II with about 600hrs TT. I've been reading on this board for a while now, and I really like the messages so I'm asking for more of the same...

I enjoy teaching IFR flying (no actual IMC, PIC time though) and I read that most EMS flying is single pilot VFR flying. I have multiple friends who have gone to the GOM and one is a SIC on an IFR S-76. He likes it a lot and he is getting just slightly less PIC time per month than I am, makes more money, and doesn't have students trying their level best to make him a smoking hole!

I have spent a lot of time considering going to the GOM as an SIC but my wife and I still get along and enjoy each others company and she doesn't like the idea of 2 on 2 off. EMS usually is 7/7 and you get to be home most every night. I know being home a lot is hard to pull off as a helicopter pilot with limited experience, but I'd like to TRY to do just that. Are there any jobs like the IFR SIC position in EMS? VFR is not a disqualifier by any means, I'm just interested in IFR stuff (blissful ignorance maybe?)

I have been researching Air Methods, and I know that they are a large EMS company and might have some of the same type IFR SIC programs. I spoke to someone at the heli expo that indicated that something like that might be an option. I also remember reading that one of the veteran posters on this forum has worked for Air Methods at least a while ago. While having said that, I also know that they are not the only game out there for EMS but they seem to be the biggest. PHI also does some EMS work and I have considered working for them and trying to work my way over to EMS, but I don't have any idea how long that could take??? I've got a friend at PHI who likes it, but he's just slightly more experienced than me, and doesn't really know much yet. My fear is that I will have to either keep instructing until I can find a tour job or something at 1000-1500hrs (not horrible, I don't HATE instructing) or I will have to roll the dice and go to the gulf and hope my wife will stick around even if she hates it. Also, are there any other areas outside of EMS or the GOM where a low time guy like myself might get in and be able to be home more than the 2/2 schedule? I know I have asked a lot of questions in this one post, but I have been wrestling with it for a while now and after reading some of the recent posts in here I think a lot of some of the veteran posters opinions. Thanks in advance

[Hellaheli]

Helloo?

Edited September 13, 2007 by Hellaheli

[Hellaheli]

Anyone? Very experienced people? People who know very experienced people? People who know plain old experienced people? Lightly experienced people?

[Gomer Pylot]

There are a few EMS IFR jobs. Most are single-pilot, but there are a few 2-pilot aircraft around the country. In general, they require lots of experience. They have many more applicants than open slots, and you're not likely to be hired on one of them with less than several thousand hours, and a good deal of IMC time. I won't say it's impossible with your qualifications, but it's very unlikely. These jobs are rarely available in any case.

[Hellaheli]

Gomer,

Thank you VERY much for replying. I was hoping that you would. I am now working toward my 100 hours of night unaided time (while building up night cross country at the same time) because I have heard that its harder to get those hours once you move on from instructing, but before the EMS job. It should only take me a month or so to get done with that and then????? We'll see. I'm planning on making trips to visit a few companies that interest me in a little while. Most of those are pipe dreams for the time being, but I'm a firm believer in getting out there face to face when possible. These questions are going around in a big way among a lot of CFI's I know. We are the "Wise Ones" around our students but come down to it, we don't have much of a clue about the real world without help like this and talking to guys we know who have left. Thanks again

[Gomer Pylot]

Getting out and meeting people is never a bad idea. Networking is important in this business. You never know what you might luck into.

[Wally]

I'm at an Air Methods program, and that's WHY I haven't answered, believe it or not. It's a VFR, community based job. The problem with my attempting to answer your initial inquiry is this I never see pilots from other programs. That's overstating it a bit, but the effect is that I NEVER see pilots from the very, very few 2-pilot IFR programs. I know the company has a few, but I don't know how many, where, or have any "feel" for the programs.

I know that AMC has some, as do other operators. My impression is that AMC's SICs make 2/3-3/4 of company scale, and that's a guess. PHI used to have a few as well, and my impression is that they paid better. Keystone, or whatever they're called these days, also has 2-pilot IFR birds. That's as much as I know.

 

Further impressions, perhaps completely N/A: If you're tired of instructing, there are other options besides the GoM and tours. Those are the largest non-instructional parts of the industry, so it's easier to locate the jobs. There are other jobs.

The GoM's not all bad, even on a 7&7 or 14&14 (you're calling this a "2&2?). I assume you're considering a move to your next position? Aside from "formal" requirements at the GoM operators, you can live where you want. ANYWHERE you want, as long as the commutes possible, predictable, and affordable. You could also get into an IFR program in the GoM, and my experience is that the GoM is good duty, and you'll probably stay longer than you first intend. Consider that commercial duty schedules generally are the legal max, in spite of the posted schedules. That means you'll generally be on the job 14 hours a day and more counting the commute. Occasionally longer days, AMC has a hard limit of 16 hours a day, which means some people occasionally work very long days. Point is, even with a 10 minute commute, I leave before anybody else in the house is up, and often get home just as every body else is going to bed. In a sense, I'm gone the week I'm on duty- and my wife has said many times that the GoM was less disruptive. If your objective is EMS, a couple years in the GoM might get you there quicker, and be less stress in the long run.

That's definitely a "do as I say, not as I do", because I'm not in the GoM for exactly the reasons you give...

Second complete outsider impression of your situation- stick to instructing a bit longer, build the night time you need, and start fishing for the EMS slot you ultimately want at 1500 hrs or so. Instructing is dern good training for a pro, except that you'll have a hard time getting "actual IMC", which is very important to a professional.

 

Summary of my opinions-

I'd guess an EMS/Sic is the most direct and second hardest way to get where I think you want to be.

" " the GoM is the second quickest method, especially if you can get an IFR/SIC seat quickly. In either case, EMS or GoM, I'd call operators directly.

Tours get you time and experience quickly, but nights and IFR will probably be hard to come by.

Can't say anything about corporate, fires, or other specialties, I know very few pilots who come to EMS that way.

Continuing to instruct has benefits and limits you may need to weigh very carefully, but will probably get you to EMS. Complete WAG is that EMS operators are scrambling for experience now, and that will get worse as time goes on. Required minimums are dropping, and fewer new-hires have multiples of that, anyhow.

[Hellaheli]

Thank you guys VERY VERY much. That was exactly what I was hoping for. I've been talking with a few other people that are around the same place that I am, and giving them some of your insights (I gave you credit too) and it really helps. I'm still building the night time and as much xctry time as I can get right now, I'll try to keep you fellas posted on how things progress. Once again, thank you.

[Hedge36]

Thank you guys VERY VERY much. That was exactly what I was hoping for. I've been talking with a few other people that are around the same place that I am, and giving them some of your insights (I gave you credit too) and it really helps. I'm still building the night time and as much xctry time as I can get right now, I'll try to keep you fellas posted on how things progress. Once again, thank you.

 

I don't about the other EMS outfit requirements, but a conversation a couple of years ago during a visit to REACH in Santa Rosa, CA left me with the understanding that they require 2500 TT, half of which was in turbines, half of that at night, a good number of IFR PIC, and either a requirement for or preference given to NVG time.

 

I'm likely mis-quoting, but the point was they were VERY serious about qualifications before they put anyone in the right seat of one of their SPIFR A109's.

 

Again, how that squares with the rest of the industry I'm not sure, though I'd be interested in finding out.

[Gomer Pylot]

That's probably very common. SPIFR requires you to have all your stuff in one very small package. It's not for newbies, and requires concentration and experience.

[Hedge36]

That's probably very common. SPIFR requires you to have all your stuff in one very small package. It's not for newbies, and requires concentration and experience funded by a pretty substantial bank account.

 

Fixed.

 

For free

[Gomer Pylot]

No, not necessarily a substantial bank account, but certainly by several years of experience. Fly for 10 years or so in the Gulf, and you may be getting close to meeting the qualifications and experience needed. It's certainly possible to get the experience elsewhere, but that's where the largest concentration of IFR helicopters in the US is located, and thus the majority of the jobs.

[Inthegreen]

Hi HellaHeli,

 

Sorry you didn't get many answers the first time around. I also work for Air Methods, but I didn't read your post until just now. I wish I had better news for you, though. As far as I know, Air Methods has only one 2 pilot IFR ship in the country. That's the S76 at Miami Childrens Hospital. The only other possibility, and I say possibility because I don't know how the ship is crewed, is the 412 in Virginia. The other IFR programs are all single pilot. The only large scale usage of the SIC is the gulf of Mexico and the US Army. Expect to see more downsizing and economizing in EMS in the future. Smaller aircraft; VFR only; a return of some contract to singles from medium twins. All of this precludes IFR and SICs. Accountants are running the show now. As long as we keep the income rolling, don't crash too often, stay off 60 minutes, etc., the trend will continue.

 

I love EMS, don't get me wrong. If you want to be home every night, you'll love it too. My advice is to go to the gulf or wherever to get the hours you need to get a VFR EMS job near you. Maybe the company has IFR ships nearby too that you can transition into in a few years. Best of luck to you.

[blade400]

I've been following this thread because Air Methods flys in san antonio and I'd love to be an ems pilot. Anyhoo,

 

when the weather is really bad, especially at night, do you ever get nervous flying?

[Gomer Pylot]

No. When the weather gets really bad, especially at night, I don't fly.

[blade400]

No. When the weather gets really bad, especially at night, I don't fly.

 

 

Ah, makes sense. BTW, where in Tx are you flying?