Helmet Comms

[Witch]

I went and purchased the CEP from CEP-USA, and as stated in another thread, I'll give ya'll an evaluation of this product.

 

First off, it cost about $112 with shipping. The installation instructions off the website were more than adequate for me to understand.

 

Drilling the hole for the jack was easy-to say the least-, but the hole in the earcup was a little harder because of the angle. also, one might need to drill this a little bigger, say 9/32. This'll make it a little easier to install the plug later.

 

Setting the jack into the shell is easy, just remember to remove some of that material on the inside of the shell because the jack isn't long enough to receive the nut with that material there. Remove it.

 

Soldering was a little bit of a task since I didn't have the helmet in some sort of a holder. Try to solder a wire while the helmet is moving around the table is a bit frustrating. Having the cat trying to get inside the helmet to nap is even more frustrating. Just hold it in your lap and have someone hold the wire whilst you do the soldering. Don't forget the heatshrink.

 

I put a volume control on the other side. I found a 2K ohm linear taper pot at Norvac for $.25, and some 20ga wire to go to the pot. If any of y'all want a schematic, PM me.

 

I finally tried it out today. I must say that for one, I can hear myself talking rather clearly. The noise reduction is so good that I can hear my tinnitus over the engine noise. Blade slap noise is reduced a little also. The earplug is comfortable. The thing that annoyed me a little was when putting the helmet on, the right plug came out of my ear twice. I finally got it in and getting the earcups over my ears was a tight fit.

 

I'm going to order another jack from CEP and install it on my H10-30. I like it.

 

I'm giving it an 8.82749.

 

Later

[Guest rookie101]

That caught me off guard Witchey, seeing someone in a Robbie with a helmet on. I did the double look because I thought I was seeing something. Still can't beleive that you've got adequate head room wearing that thing, my head hits the ceiling wearing my H10-60.

[IceWater]

Hello, I'm a student flying R22's myself and have been training with an SPH-5 with CEP since the beginning of my training in Sunny, Hot and humid south Florida lol. I saw a small ad about CEP when I was shopping for a helmet and thought it was a great idea and decided to try it out, and very I'm happy I did!

 

I started my training and all was well, but there was a short period of time on the 4th week of my training where I had to use my helmet's earphone speakers because I had lost my CEP plugs somewhere on the flight line. After a week of flying this way I was itching to get my new CEP's from CEP-USA. I can personally say that the sound quality is almost night and day! The side tone is clear enough to hear myself transmit out, all incoming signals are clear as a bell and even weak signals become intelligible.

 

There are only a few downsides to the CEP that I can think of. One, if the CEP is not properly fitted, it can be a very irritating and painful experience! So putting on a helmet with CEP can be tricky, but it comes with experience. Two, It worries me a bit that I may not be able to detect unusual sounds if being produced by mechanical problems because the noise reduction is so great. Three, the CEP plugs are small, it's just 2 thin black wires connected at each end to one Press Fit "SMA" connector, with flesh toned ear plugs on the ends. I spent hours looking for mine Ha ha ha. I wish CEP would use wires that had a brighter color so it would be easier to find them. In summary I think it's terrific tool and I'd recommend it to anyone that asks.

 

The Company "Communications & Ear Protection, Inc" www.cep-usa.com is a small company based in Alabama, and the staff there is terrific and very helpful. When I first received my helmet the CEP came with only a pair of standard size tips which where very hard for me to install. I contacted CEP-USA requesting a different size and they sent me a tube of assorted ear tips (Standard, Slim, and Short) within a few days with no questions asked and found that Slim is the best size for me. The other time I contacted CEP is when I lost my CEP plugs. I contacted CEP-USA and told them that I had lost my set and need another set ASAP and so within 4 days I had a new set of CEP plugs and life is good!

[Bayou06]

I recently modified my DC's with the CEP. I can attest to what the above poster stated. Reduction in ambient noise is great. One thing I would recommend is that if you are going to add CEPs to a headset, get the longer CEP model. Because of the way the CEP is installed on the ear cup, you'll need longer wires so that they don't pull when turning your head around. Bottom line though, CEPs are a great product.

[Gomer Pylot]

I think that you would want an audio taper pot for an audio application. Linear taper pots are almost never used for volume controls, that's why they invented audio taper pots. Your hearing is not linear, it's actually logarithmic. A linear taper pot can work, but you have to crank it way around to hear any difference.

 

The helmet I bought off ebay came with CEPs installed, and they're exactly the same as the Clarity Aloft plugs. The threaded tubes that hold the eartips started shattering, and CEP offered to fix them. They turned out to be about 10 years old, and CEP sent a replacement set, without warranty, because the originals were so old. I had only inquired about buying the little tubes, and CEP didn't have to do anything, but I was happy with the service.

[kodoz]

Has anybody done this with the DC ANR's? I'm not thrilled with the performance of mine, especially after trying out my instructor's Bose headset.

[IceWater]

Has anybody done this with the DC ANR's? I'm not thrilled with the performance of mine, especially after trying out my instructor's Bose headset.

 

I don't know anyone that has intalled CEP to any kind of ANR headset, but I think it's a great idea since ANR is pretty much usless when your flying with doors removed in my experience. Installation of CEP into an ANR headset may be a bit complicated due to the additional electronics which would leave less space to work with. I think I'll look into my Bose X headsets and see if I could make that modification.

[Witch]

That caught me off guard Witchey, seeing someone in a Robbie with a helmet on. I did the double look because I thought I was seeing something. Still can't beleive that you've got adequate head room wearing that thing, my head hits the ceiling wearing my H10-60.

 

Remember young Jedi, I'm shorter than you, as well as older and fatter.

 

You know, that caught me off guard also, having someone call me to inquire about my hardhat. Bernd seemed a little confused at the time. I'll let you try my hardhat one of these days if you want, that is if you can wear it without hitting your head.

 

Later

[Autorotator]

I'm not sure exactly how these things work but, they look like ear plugs to me. I am curious, do these reduce cockpit noise such as the low rotor RPM horn?

 

One of the instructors at my old school had something along the lines of these I believe. The company would make a mold of the inside of your ear, then send you your ear buds (made of something along the lines of silicone) which you would then wire into the cable on your headset.

 

The only reason that makes me wonder this is, one day I had a solo flight to OKC for maintanance, and had my music cranked up a little louder than when I have pax with me (not excessivly loud) and was surprised that I could barely hear the horn on my check.

 

On an off note, IMO, I think the warning horns should be through the intercomm system. Just a thought.

 

--CM

[IceWater]

I'm not sure exactly how these things work but, they look like ear plugs to me. I am curious, do these reduce cockpit noise such as the low rotor RPM horn?

 

One of the instructors at my old school had something along the lines of these I believe. The company would make a mold of the inside of your ear, then send you your ear buds (made of something along the lines of silicone) which you would then wire into the cable on your headset.

 

The only reason that makes me wonder this is, one day I had a solo flight to OKC for maintanance, and had my music cranked up a little louder than when I have pax with me (not excessivly loud) and was surprised that I could barely hear the horn on my check.

 

On an off note, IMO, I think the warning horns should be through the intercomm system. Just a thought.

 

--CM

 

CM, These are form fitting foam ear plugs that have a sound canal in the center which screws into a small transducer. The Transducer is small enough to fit into your Outer Ear which gives you additonal sound attenuation on top of the headset/helmet earcups making the intercom that much clearer. So I always try to to listen to any unusual sounds the helicopter may produce if there is a problem. I try to stay extra vigilant because of my very limited experience being a Private Pilot Student.

 

If your wondering about the Low RPM Horn, I can confirm that it goes though the intercom system as well in the R22.

 

For more information check out www.cep-usa.com

[Gomer Pylot]

The eartips they sell are rather expensive, so I just use standard disposable foam earplugs. I run a piece of clear plastic tubing, .133" ID, most of the way through them, and screw the tubing onto the transducer/speaker. Lots cheaper, and works better. You can also remove the foam portion of the supplied eartips and use the inside part to put into the disposable plugs, but I like the tubing a little better.

 

If you have music playing through your headset, no wonder you can't hear the warning horns. Using my earplugs, I can still hear engine sounds and warning horns, but playing music through them would almost completely mask those sounds. You need to keep the music pretty low if you do play it.

[Autorotator]

I do agree that if you listen to tunes in the cockpit you should keep them low. I never noticed it before due to the fact that I did have my music low enough to hear the horn. I was just rockin' out during my start up and was surprised that I could barely hear the horn. Luckily I made the mistake on the ground. I always am sure to keep my music low enough to hear the horn.

 

--CM

[palmfish]

The noise reduction is so good that I can hear my tinnitus over the engine noise. Blade slap noise is reduced a little also. The earplug is comfortable. The thing that annoyed me a little was when putting the helmet on, the right plug came out of my ear twice. I finally got it in and getting the earcups over my ears was a tight fit.

 

I'm going to order another jack from CEP and install it on my H10-30.

 

Thanks for posting your review Witch, very good info. I've been using CEP's for many years (ever since the Army started issuing them around 97 or 98, and I think everyone who can use them, should use them - they're that good.

 

Anyways, your tinnitus remark caught my attention as I have suffered from moderate tinnitus for years and have struggled to find a good NR solution for me. As I already mentioned, I use CEP's when I fly rotary-wing, but I currently use an ANR David Clark headset when I fly fixed-wing. I didn't know that CEP's could be fitted to headsets too. Can you elaborate please?

 

Also, I thought I'd throw this out to the forum for comments...

 

What are the pluses/minuses of ANR? I'm wondering what type of research is out there regarding whether ANR actually eliminates the sound pressure levels, or if it simply masks the noise entering the ear canal. I ask because I find I suffer from a fair amount of ear fatigue after flying fixed-wing and have secretly wondered if my ears are still getting blasted with the full noise of the cockpit - just disguised by the reverse signal (which is equally loud?).

 

Any thoughts?

Edited September 10, 2007 by palmfish

[IceWater]

Hello Palmfish,

 

CEP can be fitted into pretty much any basic headset/helmet with standard ear cups. If you look at “Communications & Ear Protection Inc.’s” website they have instructions on how to install CEP in pretty much any military and commercial Helmet except the Gallet, but I’m sure that installation wouldn’t be that difficult. They also have instructions on how to install CEP to David Clark Headsets, here’s the link: http://www.cep-usa.com/David Clark Headset.doc . CEP can be fitted to other brands too, you just have to be handy with a drill, soldering iron and have basic electronic knowledge or a friend who could do it for you for a case of beer.

 

As far as ANR is concerned, I’ll try to tackle this information the best I can with the little knowledge I have, so anyone out there, please correct me if I’m wrong. Anti Noise Reduction technology is designed to counter or neutralize the ambient noise you operate in. It counters the ambient noise by sensing the noise environment with small microphones located on each ear cup (in the Bose Aviation X’s case), and counters it with a signal, sound, or noise if you will that is 180 degrees out of phase with the environment. You can somewhat witness this in a large body of water when waves are in a collision course with each other if both waves are traveling at the same speed and amplitude. They will absorb each others energy and dissipate.

 

The ANR then makes incoming transmissions clearer and intelligible by reducing static and ambient noise of the aircraft. So it is designed to eliminate or greatly reduce sound pressure levels, but there are so many variables in the real world. In effect the ANR does reduce the ambient noise but I believe it’s also producing white noise that could cause fatigue if used for long lengths of time. I own the Bose X and have felt headaches when worn on lengthy flights. Also ANR is useless in open environments. Don’t even think about taking the doors off the aircraft if you’re going to use an ANR headset. All of the wind buffeting against the small microphones will make ANR useless. You could turn ANR off but the Passive noise attenuation qualities of these types of headsets are usually very low. This is where CEP would make a great supplement to an ANR headset, and I’d like to try it out myself.

 

I haven’t seen much information on how effective or defective ANR is. Most of this information is given my manufactures showing how well their product works on their test bench. But if anyone out there have additional data on this I’d definitely like to check it out.

 

Alright, I have my blindfold on Ha ha

[palmfish]

Thanks for the link Icewater.

 

I know before the advent of CEP's, I would always wear inner (foam canal plugs) and outer hearing protection. I tried this once with my ANR David Clarks, but I found communication to sound muffled and of course, I had to turn the volume all the way up to hear.

 

I think a CEP equipped ANR headset would be a revelation. I'm definitely going to pursue this.

Edited September 11, 2007 by palmfish

[IceWater]

Let me know how it goes Palmfish,

Installation may be tricky because of the additional ANR electronics. There may not be alot of space to work with, and the modification may void your warranty.

 

The eartips they sell are rather expensive, so I just use standard disposable foam earplugs. I run a piece of clear plastic tubing, .133" ID, most of the way through them, and screw the tubing onto the transducer/speaker. Lots cheaper, and works better. You can also remove the foam portion of the supplied eartips and use the inside part to put into the disposable plugs, but I like the tubing a little better.

 

That sounds like a great idea Gomer! Not sure if I can pull it off though. My ear canal is very narrow so I doubt that I can stuff a standard size foam ear plug. I'll give it a try though.

[palmfish]

Let me know how it goes Palmfish,

Installation may be tricky because of the additional ANR electronics. There may not be alot of space to work with, and the modification may void your warranty.

That sounds like a great idea Gomer! Not sure if I can pull it off though. My ear canal is very narrow so I doubt that I can stuff a standard size foam ear plug. I'll give it a try though.

 

I'll let you know.

 

First I have to get my employer to purchase the CEPs and give me permission to "butcher" the David Clarks they issued me. It shouldn't be a problem - they're several years old (well past any warranty period) and the ANR system is a jerry-rigged add-on affair to begin with.

 

thanks again for the info.

[amphibpilot]

If your wondering about the Low RPM Horn, I can confirm that it goes though the intercom system as well in the R22.

 

Actually, neither the R22's nor R44's A569 Low Rotor RPM Warning Unit's horn output goes thru the factory-installed intercom, no matter what vintage (PTT, Hot Mic, or NAT VOX); low-rpm horn and intercom circuits are independent. If you heard the low-rpm horn thru your headset then an activated microphone just happened to pick-up the horn sound from the background.

 

Having tinnitus myself I can appreciate the desire to add more noise attenuation, but both Gomer Pylot & Autorotator are correct about the importance of keeping music volume very low lest a warning horn become inaudible.

[Witch]

The eartips they sell are rather expensive, so I just use standard disposable foam earplugs. I run a piece of clear plastic tubing, .133" ID, most of the way through them, and screw the tubing onto the transducer/speaker. Lots cheaper, and works better. You can also remove the foam portion of the supplied eartips and use the inside part to put into the disposable plugs, but I like the tubing a little better.

So, the tubing will fit on the transducer? How well does it fit and will it come off the transdicer easily?

 

Later

[Gomer Pylot]

The .133ID tubing is a tight fit on the tubes, slightly tighter than the provided eartips, but not that much. It won't pull straight off, you have to twist it with the threads. That's an advantage, IMO. I've also used heatshrink tubing from Radio Shack, but the clear plastic tubing works better for me - it's not as stiff. First I push a sharpened rod through the earplug lengthwise, and then I use a small broken drill bit that fits inside the tubing to push it in, otherwise it can be tough to get it inside properly.

[Witch]

I shall try that this weekend. Thanks Gomer.

 

Later

[Gomer Pylot]

You'll need to crank up the volume a little, because the plugs without the tube going all the way through dampen the volume some. You can run the tube all the way, but I don't like that at all. I just live with the lower volume, and turn up the knob a little past midway. I generally run the radios at midpoint, and the volume on my audio panel at about 7 or so. If I turn up the radios themselves, the med crew starts to complain, because they're not using earplugs. It's really not a big deal.

[palmfish]

Update:

 

I've been flying the A-Star a lot lately (CEP's with Gentex helmet), so I haven't pursued the CEP/David Clark option until now.

 

I called our ALSE/supply tech today and told her I had an unusual idea to try and install CEP's into my DC heaset. She laughed and told me that she has a couple of DC headsets with CEP's already installed sitting on a shelf in her supply room. It seems a couple of our pilots got the idea to try it a few years ago, and they turned in the sets upon retiring from the agency. She's going to send me one of them.

 

In the interim, when I fly the Cessna, I have been wearing foam ear plugs underneath my ANR DC headset. I did experiment with switching ANR on and off while wearing the inner foam plugs, and I must say, I can't tell the difference with ANR on or off - the foam plugs attenuate the low frequencies so well that you cannot detect the ANR operating. This being the case, I have concluded that installing CEP's into an ANR headset would be a waste.

 

I will reiterate though, that if you want the best noise attenuation and clearest radio communication possible, CEP's are the ONLY way to go. Take it from someone who has been flying for 20 years and used pretty much every type and combination of hearing protection out there (and still gone half-deaf) - you owe it to yourself, and your hearing preservation, to get CEP's - they outperform anything else on the market (including the Bose Aviation X).

 

I'll report back again after I've had a chance to fly the Cessna with my new CEP DC's.

Edited October 9, 2007 by palmfish

[FauxZ]

After spending some time on here talking with Gomer about CEP's I put them in my Marv Golden headset about 6 months ago and I'm positive I won't ever use anything else. The Marv is about 10 years old, and the noise attenuation is good but not quite up to what some modern headsets are using. In the end, it doesn't really matter though, the plugs go way beyond anything I've worn. I recommend them for every headset personally.

[Gomer Pylot]

I haven't tried CEPs in a headset, but I have them installed in my helmet. I like them, but I don't especially like the helmet. It's much noisier with the helmet on than with the CEPs with no helmet. The helmet and the domes inside seem to concentrate the noise, and make the environment much noisier. The quietest flights I've ever had, by far, are with the in-the-ear headset, basically CEPs without any domes. It's quieter, and the radios are much more understandable than with the helmet on over the plugs.