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Greeting all! This is a great website and I've had a chance to read some of the postings here in the mil section. I'm oconus in lovely Afghanistan (kidding about the lovely part) as a contactor, like my fellow Jarheads I too am interested in roatary wing aviation. I've considered the flight school route but from what I gather, sitting in a R22/R44, Schweizer to become a Commercial or CFI doesnt hold much weight as far as experience compared to the Army/Guard route.

 

Can any of you give me some info on the process? I was honorably discharged in 02, I have my TS and a bachelors degree. Not sure what the cvut off is but I'm 27 at the moment, I'll be 28 by the time my tour in the 'Stan in complete. Should I start the process when I go home on R&R? Also, would it be a good idea to pursue a PPL? I order a few ASA/FAA/DOT books on rotocraft to get a jump on ground school but its looking like the Army is the best route to go. As a guardsmen/reservist, do you have any choice in which helo you fly? (not that its an issue)... I'm a fan of the AH-64, MH-47 (the big boy version of the Corps CH-46's) and of course the Huey (hate the Army got rid of them for Blackhawks- still good helo's) I'd appreciate any advice, comments or suggestions any of you may have to offer. Its hard accepting the Blue to Green transfer :blink: but the opportunities can't be beat B) !

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Rook,

 

I will throw my 2 cents your way. As far as NG goes, I'm pretty sure you have to be currently enlisted at the time you apply for it. The reserves are different, they also have the 'street to seat' program. Because you have your degree, you can choose to go the OCS route or the Warrant Officer Route... I would highly suggest the WO route in the Army. And, the cut off right now for age is 32, so you have time.

 

As for the PPL, it wouldn't hurt, but not mandatory, it would atleast show that you have the motivation/desire to fly, and won't freak out in an aircraft.

 

As for the Aircraft selection, yes, you get to pick your airframe, you just have to find a unit that has the aircraft that you want to fly, and get accepted by that unit. And, the CH-47 is the most beautiful machine you can fly in the Army (ha, I'm bias, sorry), the MH model is only in the 160th.

 

Here is a website that you can check out for what you'll need for your packet if you decide to go Warrant Officer. If you have any other questions that isn't answered in any other of the forums/topics, just ask

 

http://usawocc.army.mil/

 

 

 

 

CHAD

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correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought there were more aviation assets in the guard than in the reserve. I think every single state operates an aviation unit, and many states operate several. For example, NY has guard aviation units, but I'm pretty sure you won't find a reserve unit here.

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Rook,

 

I will throw my 2 cents your way. As far as NG goes, I'm pretty sure you have to be currently enlisted at the time you apply for it. The reserves are different, they also have the 'street to seat' program. Because you have your degree, you can choose to go the OCS route or the Warrant Officer Route... I would highly suggest the WO route in the Army. And, the cut off right now for age is 32, so you have time.

 

As for the PPL, it wouldn't hurt, but not mandatory, it would atleast show that you have the motivation/desire to fly, and won't freak out in an aircraft.

 

As for the Aircraft selection, yes, you get to pick your airframe, you just have to find a unit that has the aircraft that you want to fly, and get accepted by that unit. And, the CH-47 is the most beautiful machine you can fly in the Army (ha, I'm bias, sorry), the MH model is only in the 160th.

 

Here is a website that you can check out for what you'll need for your packet if you decide to go Warrant Officer. If you have any other questions that isn't answered in any other of the forums/topics, just ask

 

http://usawocc.army.mil/

CHAD

[/quote

 

 

 

Hook,

 

 

Thanks for the info! Quick question, I've heard a lot of talk about the WO Boards... about how long is the entire process? I go on R&R in January and my tour will done sometime in October (I'd cut it short if I got a class seat by then)...would it be a good idea to start the process as early as january or should I wait until I'm close to the end of my tour? Whats the AFAST like? I read that Arco makes a test prep book... whats the best way to prep for the test? I live in the Washington DC area so I'm open to any Guard unit in DC/MD/VA/WV, are any of them 160th?

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correct me if I'm wrong, but I always thought there were more aviation assets in the guard than in the reserve. I think every single state operates an aviation unit, and many states operate several. For example, NY has guard aviation units, but I'm pretty sure you won't find a reserve unit here.

 

 

 

AndrewT,

 

 

Thanks for your response- So I'd have a better chance going with the Guard? I've read some of the postings and heard the rumors of people having to enlist for a few years then HOPE to cross over to aviation, I've done my time in the enlisted ranks... coming back into uniform I'd want to go right to aviation.

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I will look later on when I have more time if I can find the website with all the aviation assets. As far as Guard vs. Reserves, I'm pretty sure (not 100%) that you are correct on that.

 

As for the time that it takes for the packet, it does take a while, I will say that you can, and should, start it overseas. However, the Flight Physical does take a while, cause it is a pain in the ass to get before you actually an aviator. That being said, don't cut your tour short, UNLESS you can somehow get your flight physical done and have an Interview Board date while you are home (typically happens once a year for NG units). On the other hand, Ft Eustis, VA is the closest spot to you with a big aviation core, so you could probably get in there to get that done.

 

For the enlisted part, I will look into that this weekend when I'm at drill, see if anyone around the unit knows how that would work. I know we accept inter-service transfers, that happens all the time, but for someone out getting back in, I'm not sure. I will see what I can find out.

 

Arco does make the test prep book, and yes... I would suggest picking that up.

 

The 160th SOAR is what I'm referring to, and they are the active duty Special Operations Aviation Regiment (Blackhawk Down guys)

www.nightstalkers.com

 

Again, I will look for that website a lil' later, it will take me a bit to find it.

 

 

CHAD

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I will look later on when I have more time if I can find the website with all the aviation assets. As far as Guard vs. Reserves, I'm pretty sure (not 100%) that you are correct on that.

 

As for the time that it takes for the packet, it does take a while, I will say that you can, and should, start it overseas. However, the Flight Physical does take a while, cause it is a pain in the ass to get before you actually an aviator. That being said, don't cut your tour short, UNLESS you can somehow get your flight physical done and have an Interview Board date while you are home (typically happens once a year for NG units). On the other hand, Ft Eustis, VA is the closest spot to you with a big aviation core, so you could probably get in there to get that done.

 

For the enlisted part, I will look into that this weekend when I'm at drill, see if anyone around the unit knows how that would work. I know we accept inter-service transfers, that happens all the time, but for someone out getting back in, I'm not sure. I will see what I can find out.

 

Arco does make the test prep book, and yes... I would suggest picking that up.

 

The 160th SOAR is what I'm referring to, and they are the active duty Special Operations Aviation Regiment (Blackhawk Down guys)

www.nightstalkers.com

 

Again, I will look for that website a lil' later, it will take me a bit to find it.

CHAD

 

 

Thanks Chad, much appreciated!

 

 

Brandon

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AndrewT,

Thanks for your response- So I'd have a better chance going with the Guard? I've read some of the postings and heard the rumors of people having to enlist for a few years then HOPE to cross over to aviation, I've done my time in the enlisted ranks... coming back into uniform I'd want to go right to aviation.

 

 

I think it mostly depends on which way you want to go, becoming a WO or becoming a commissioned officer. Since you already served, I'm pretty sure you can "enlist" in the guard and see what rank they bring you in with. I kind of doubt that you'd have to go through BCT all over again...and the worst case scenario is that you'd have to go through a 6-week "mini basic" that introduces you to the Army's way of doing things, since you'd be coming in from a different service. The thing about going WO in the guard is the selection criteria, found here: http://www.dod.state.ga.us/woweb/Who.html Assuming you pass all the other requirements, the fact that you have to be an E-5 or up might hold you up for some time, depending on what rank you come in as, and all that. You might be able to get a waiver for rank, too. So, honestly, if you're set on this route (WO), best bet is to find a a unit you want to join and talk to them about what you need to do.

 

Becoming a commissioned officer MIGHT be a better way for you, depending on your time frame. If you want to do that, you "enlist" under the 09S contract, which guarantees you a slot at OCS. Again, you probably wouldn't have to go through 3 months of BCT, and OCS can range from 18 months to 8 weeks. For the 18 month program, you do OCS classes like you drill (ie, one weekend a month, two weeks a year). The accelerated OCS (AOCS) program is offered by the National Guard Bureau, and you pretty much knock it out in 8 weeks....assuming you survive. AOCS is run twice a year (maybe more now?), once in the winter, once in the summer. Check out this site for more information about the program: https://www.mi.ngb.army.mil/ocs/501.asp As a side note, I BELIEVE you can do the federal OCS program (generally reserved for..well...reservists and active duty members), which is a little bit longer but its run much more often. Getting into that really depends on if your state will let you go or not. Also, getting into AOCS could be competitive depending on who else is applying. For example, if there is someone in their 30's coming in now and he's bumping up against the age limit, he'll probably get the AOCS slot over you.

 

So, are you now confused and overwhelmed with information?? I think the best answers you are going to get will come from the unit you want to join. Since you said you're interested in the 64 airframe, PM me and I can send you a list of units that fly them. And like FLHooker said, flying the MH-47 probably WON'T happen if you decide to go Guard/Reserve.

 

-EDIT-

FLHooker, let me know if you saw anywrong information in my post so I can edit it

Edited by AndrewT
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Andrew,

 

1 minor lil' edit for you. The E-5 requirement is only for the Technical field WO's, it doesn't apply to Aviation. Neither does the Time in Service requirement that is also for the Tech Warrants.

 

I agree with Andrew, finding a unit and see what they can/will offer you might be your best bet, and as of yet, I have not been able to find the page that lists all the Aviation Assets that are in the Guard and Reserve. I'm using Google, so you might want to punch it in also if you have time and see if you can find the page. Or just contacting a local NG recruiter in your area, he would also be able to hook you up with what units are there.

 

I know that there is a Hawk unit in WV, where, I dunno, I just know there is one in the state. I also am pretty sure there is another 60/47 unit in VA, in Richmond. I know... vague, and I appologize for that.

 

 

 

CHAD

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Andrew,

 

1 minor lil' edit for you. The E-5 requirement is only for the Technical field WO's, it doesn't apply to Aviation. Neither does the Time in Service requirement that is also for the Tech Warrants.

 

I know that there is a Hawk unit in WV, where, I dunno, I just know there is one in the state. I also am pretty sure there is another 60/47 unit in VA, in Richmond. I know... vague, and I appologize for that.

 

Thanks for the correction FLHooker. Also, is this the site you were trying to find: http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/2931/

I think most of the information is correct there, and its definitely a good start

 

 

Rook, if you want to fly 64's for the Guard, check out: Arizona, Idaho, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, and Utah.

 

64's in the Reserves should be located in Kentucky, and Texas.

 

You're probably going to find a unit that flies Hawks in every single state, 47's/64's/58's/H1's are scattered around.

 

Since you didn't really seem to care where you end up, I'd say check out Hawaii ARNG. They have a 47 unit out on Oahu (I guess thats the big island, right?) the B/1-171st AVN (HH) http://www.dod.state.hi.us/hiarng/hiarng-unit-home.html You can surf and fly tour missions during the week, and play with the big birds on weekends all while soaking up the sun and building a nice tan. Besides, after all that desert, I'm sure something tropical would be a nice change of pace!

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I have a good buddy out there in the HI NG, I hear it's a good unit.

 

And no problem, I just hope all this is helpin' out.

CHAD

 

 

Thanks for the info! Its amazing how I got more information from all of you than I did the actual NG recruiters.. I've called one and emailed 3 and still waiting on them to return my call/emails. I was hoping to get a jump on this process, but I'll probably end up having to do some cow wrangling when I get back in january. I'm not limited as to where I'll live so I'm open to any state so long as I can get an aviation slot.

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Helo_Rookie,

Greetings from Idaho. I flew OH-58s, AH-64s and the UH-60 during my stint in the Idaho Army National Guard. I also served on a couple of aviation selection boards and first I'd like to say that flying for the National Guard is a great way to go. My 2 cents worth is that every state and unit are different in their needs and how they go about selecting candidates for flight training. While the pre-reqs are the same, some units are in dire need of aviators while others may have a lesser need. From what I've seen (at least in Idaho, Hooker and Andrew may also have some insight as to their individual states), the State Aviation Officer is kind of the gate keeper when it comes to selection of flight school candidates (assumming that they meet the other requirements). Most states like to hire from within (if possible) so that they are spending their valuable quotas on a known quanitity. However, we boarded an individual who was not a member of any service and his decision to join was to be predecated on his selection. Also, the decision to go WO or 2LT can be a little difficult to make. Generally, if you go the 2LT route, you will eventually (generally at the CPT level) become a staff officer and flying will become more of a secondary duty.

 

I would second what was posted earlier that you need to first find a unit with the aircraft you want then you will want to contact someone from that unit or state aviation office to get additional information. Most likely, you will have to spend some time as an enlisted soldier in the unit until selected to attend OCS and Flight School or WOC / Flight School. There is a web site call GKO (Guard Knowledge Online) that has all the aviation units, phone numbers and leadership for the entire United States. However, I'm not sure if you can get permission to access it....Hooker or Andrew thoughts?

 

Anyway, enough rambling on. Good luck in your quest and keep us posted.

 

PS I know that the Idaho Army National Guard is in need of AH-64 pilots.

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  • 1 month later...

Fred, I'm not sure he can see that section on GKO, I think it's locked up just like AKO is. I rarely ever use GKO. As for the SAO being the gatekeeper, I completely agree. The SAO and the BN CO (battalion commander) are the 2 big ones, but I will say that the S1 has a big part too, as the S1 in my unit helped me out getting into the unit.

 

 

The first step is finding the unit you want to fly for, there are MANY states out there hurting for pilots... Both WO's and LT's. It seems that 64 slots are the easiest to find right now... all over the country.

 

 

 

CHAD

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Fred, I'm not sure he can see that section on GKO, I think it's locked up just like AKO is. I rarely ever use GKO. As for the SAO being the gatekeeper, I completely agree. The SAO and the BN CO (battalion commander) are the 2 big ones, but I will say that the S1 has a big part too, as the S1 in my unit helped me out getting into the unit.

 

 

The first step is finding the unit you want to fly for, there are MANY states out there hurting for pilots... Both WO's and LT's. It seems that 64 slots are the easiest to find right now... all over the country.

 

 

 

CHAD

 

 

Chad,

 

I'm home in the states on R&R and I've been getting the run around lately... I met with the CT National Guard and the recruiter is telling me to enlist fist and submit a package which can take as little as 6 months or as long as 4 years to get a slot, he actually told me they have someone who has a slot for the 2011 clas (i think thats b.s.).. I talked to the officer strength recruiter and he mentioned going through the State OCS (approx 15 monthd- one weekend a month drills) then applying to flight training... thats crazy! My only other option with them is to get my PPL and try to apply for a direct comission- It sucks they are full of BS because they have quite a few air craft for such a small state.. they actually have 2 aviation depots that have chinooks, Blackhawks, Little birds and they have 2 Apaches as well..

 

I contacted the VA guard recruiter and he's out of the office until mid week, but I fly back overseas on Tuesday, I contact DC national guard and they claim they are reducing the number of pilots they have, Delware gave me the same "enlist first for a year then apply" excuse... I even looked at the Army reserve and according to the online recruiter, the Army reserve is not recruiting for aviators at the moment. I went out to Portland to check out some flight schools and I've been eyeing Bristow Academy as a back up in the even the NG option falls through- I'm willing to relocate but I never thought it would be this difficult to 1. get back in uniform, and 2. become an aviator.... Back to the drawing board I guess...

 

Rookie-

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Get in contact with someone at the units you want to fly with. Pilots, IP's, whoever, and get real lowdown directly from them.

 

I've heard that Direct Commission in the Guard for anything other than the medical and chaplain services is pretty hard. The 18 month for a Commission is through the traditional OCS program. You can go to AOCS and have your butter bar in 8 weeks. Various states run AOCS programs, and for the East Coast, Alabama is pretty much the main hub. That might change in the new year for the better, but I don't think anything too official has come out. You also have the option of applying to Federal OCS as a Guardsman. I think it runs between 12-14 weeks and is held more often than the Guards AOCS.

 

That being said, I suggest you get contact #'s and talk to the units directly. Let them know what you want to do and figure out a little time frame. These are going to be the people that you work with anyway, so cultivating relationships now would be good.

 

Lastly, have you considered logging a couple of hours on the civilian side before you go through with this? I'm all for feeding the aviation bug, and I don't think it'd hurt to have at least a couple of hours under your belt.

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Get in contact with someone at the units you want to fly with. Pilots, IP's, whoever, and get real lowdown directly from them.

 

I've heard that Direct Commission in the Guard for anything other than the medical and chaplain services is pretty hard. The 18 month for a Commission is through the traditional OCS program. You can go to AOCS and have your butter bar in 8 weeks. Various states run AOCS programs, and for the East Coast, Alabama is pretty much the main hub. That might change in the new year for the better, but I don't think anything too official has come out. You also have the option of applying to Federal OCS as a Guardsman. I think it runs between 12-14 weeks and is held more often than the Guards AOCS.

 

That being said, I suggest you get contact #'s and talk to the units directly. Let them know what you want to do and figure out a little time frame. These are going to be the people that you work with anyway, so cultivating relationships now would be good.

 

Lastly, have you considered logging a couple of hours on the civilian side before you go through with this? I'm all for feeding the aviation bug, and I don't think it'd hurt to have at least a couple of hours under your belt.

 

 

 

 

Andrew,

 

Thats pretty much the conclusion I've come to... I was hoping to get straight into the piepline without having to get a PPL, but I see now to REALLY be considered competitive... you pretty much have to have one. I went out to some flight schools out in Oregon last week, naturally, they are pushing the CFII route but there was one school who graduated a student with her PPL that went on to be the first female aviator in the OR guard... I'm open to relocating to any state including Alabama, its pretty tough trying to get the real scoop via email or third person with random recruiters, and if they are anything like recruiters in general, they'll say whatever to get that enlistment. I'll see what I can find out about the AOCS, but if you know of any states that are hurting for pilots- PLEASE let me know! Thanks for the advice ;)

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Rook,

 

Damn dude, sounds like you have had your share of fun while you were on break. I didn't know that you had to be CURRENTLY enlisted to apply for WOCS. I'm pretty sure that the Accelerated Federal OCS is actually only 10 weeks, I looked into this myself a few years back. However, I will say this... BEWARE, that is NOT A PROMISED FLIGHT SLOT. In fact, it's very difficult. I do know that SC is looking for 64 guys, even though I don't know why in the hell you would want to fly one of them things. GO HOOKS! Sorry, had to plug it in. I believe TX, and UT is also looking. I don't know that the 6 month thing is correct, I'm pretty sure you can put your packet in immediately, especially if they know that WOCS is your intentions, and if they are truly hurting, they will steer you in the right path. As for the Civilian side, I also looked into Bristow, but here in FL. Looked like a damn good operation, however, they only hire 20-30% of their CFI classes as CFIs at their school. I will say that I was impressed though. I'm going back to my unit tomorrow morning to fly, I will see if I can't run into the S1 and ask them if we are looking for any Hawk (UH-60) guys, and what the req's would be. Not sure if you would be interested in FL, it's sunny, warm, and we have beaches... kinda sucks. Ha, sorry again.

 

And what is this AOCS you speak of? Are you talking about the Accelerated OCS???

 

 

 

 

CHAD

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  • 3 weeks later...

FLHook, Andrew T and the rest of the gang,

 

 

I take my FAST test on 2/28 with the Virginia Guard! I have a study guide for the test, any advice any of you can give in regard to the test? I'm excited as hell, I hope 2/224 is my ticket to Rucker... I appreciate any pointer you guys can pass on!

 

Rookie-

 

 

Rook,

 

Damn dude, sounds like you have had your share of fun while you were on break. I didn't know that you had to be CURRENTLY enlisted to apply for WOCS. I'm pretty sure that the Accelerated Federal OCS is actually only 10 weeks, I looked into this myself a few years back. However, I will say this... BEWARE, that is NOT A PROMISED FLIGHT SLOT. In fact, it's very difficult. I do know that SC is looking for 64 guys, even though I don't know why in the hell you would want to fly one of them things. GO HOOKS! Sorry, had to plug it in. I believe TX, and UT is also looking. I don't know that the 6 month thing is correct, I'm pretty sure you can put your packet in immediately, especially if they know that WOCS is your intentions, and if they are truly hurting, they will steer you in the right path. As for the Civilian side, I also looked into Bristow, but here in FL. Looked like a damn good operation, however, they only hire 20-30% of their CFI classes as CFIs at their school. I will say that I was impressed though. I'm going back to my unit tomorrow morning to fly, I will see if I can't run into the S1 and ask them if we are looking for any Hawk (UH-60) guys, and what the req's would be. Not sure if you would be interested in FL, it's sunny, warm, and we have beaches... kinda sucks. Ha, sorry again.

 

And what is this AOCS you speak of? Are you talking about the Accelerated OCS???

 

 

 

 

CHAD

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ARCO makes a study guide for the AFAST test. I would suggest picking that up. I would also suggest googling (is that correct?) spatial disorientation, if my memory serves me there is a section in the test about some visual illusions (the book will have them in there). There is also mechanical stuff in there, nothing big. It's really not that bad of a test, in my opinion. Get the book, study it, and you should be good.

 

GOOD LUCK!!

 

 

CHAD

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I am 27 and deployed to iraq right now with the Oklahoma national guard. For the last year I have been trying to complete a packet for WOFT, but I don't know what to do.

 

I have been enlisted for 4 years, impeccable record but surrounded by soldiers who are content on staying mediocre throughout their enlistment. Senior NCOs as well. I have tried with my full-timers and unit recruiter about flight school, packets, etc. and none seem to care or know or want to help.

 

I would like to check out a few of the aviation units in the state and talk to some pilots but I don't know how to do that either and since I am deployed and close to the age cut-off I don't think that will be possible. I want so bad to be a pilot but without help or the knowledge of the paper pipeline, its seems like a steep climb. I know that being deployed and with my current mission, I will likely have alot of time to do all the paperwork req'd and would also like to try and get my flight physical done and maybe get a board date on my return home. Is that possible?

 

Any 2 cents or 25 is accepted by this man! Thanks a million troops!

 

Follow Me!

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rod dog,

 

In here you answered some of the questions that I asked you in the PM. Read that and see if there are still more questions. In OK, i know there are Chinooks, would only assume Hawks also, not sure exactly where they are, but I will look into it.

 

 

 

CHAD

 

 

 

Jump in and I'll give you a ride!!

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Rod dog,

 

we're just about in the same boat.. I'm 27 and an aspiring aviator as well, based off my recent experiences the best I can tell you is if you don't mind relocating, that may be a better option to become an aviator. I just got back from Afghanistan and I understand the hassles of trying to deal with the retention nco's in the field. I can tell you Virginia, Delaware and South Carolina all need pilots and have slots... from what I gather many of the Southern states with the exception of Florida are under readiness as far as pilots. Have you looked in to Texas? With you being in uniform, I know you have to be careful not to step on anyones toes- but I would reccommend barking up as many trees as you can until you get the answers and guidance you need, in a nutshell thats what I ended up having to do until I got back stateside. just my .02 Good Luck, Get Some and we'll see you on the homefront!

 

Rookie

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

rod dog,

 

In here you answered some of the questions that I asked you in the PM. Read that and see if there are still more questions. In OK, i know there are Chinooks, would only assume Hawks also, not sure exactly where they are, but I will look into it.

 

 

 

CHAD

 

 

 

Jump in and I'll give you a ride!!

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Rod Dog,

 

one other piece of advice, you may want to message FLhooker and AndrewT, they were able to give me quite a bit of advice on how the Guard works as far as aviators... In processing for VA Guard, if I find out anything I'll be sure to pass it along.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rod dog,

 

we're just about in the same boat.. I'm 27 and an aspiring aviator as well, based off my recent experiences the best I can tell you is if you don't mind relocating, that may be a better option to become an aviator. I just got back from Afghanistan and I understand the hassles of trying to deal with the retention nco's in the field. I can tell you Virginia, Delaware and South Carolina all need pilots and have slots... from what I gather many of the Southern states with the exception of Florida are under readiness as far as pilots. Have you looked in to Texas? With you being in uniform, I know you have to be careful not to step on anyones toes- but I would reccommend barking up as many trees as you can until you get the answers and guidance you need, in a nutshell thats what I ended up having to do until I got back stateside. just my .02 Good Luck, Get Some and we'll see you on the homefront!

 

Rookie

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