National Guard/Army Reserve Aviation

[FLHooker]

Rook, how are things going for you??

 

 

 

CHAD

[Helo_Rookie]

Hook,

 

so far so good, Im just spending most of my time trying to pace myself for the AFAST, I dont think it will be that bad overall, but 90 is the magic number. I take my FAST on the 28th of this month down in Richmond, VA- I'm assuming after that I'll discuss whether to go the OCS or WOCS route, list of merit etc. From what I'm told Virginia is pretty good about getting unused slots so I hope I'll be considered for something in 2008 or at least early 09. I can't sit here and tell you the pressure isnt building because it is... but at least the rotor is finally turning.....

 

 

 

Rook, how are things going for you??

 

 

 

CHAD

[FLHooker]

Rook,

 

Congrats man, a WOCS slot is probably going to be easier to get, and in my opinion more desirable. Either way, rock on. In your interview (if you have to take one)... they are going to want to know which way you want to go...either OCS or WOCS and WHY. The WHY is the biggest part of it. Take your time man, just make sure you do it right, rush it and you won't be happy.

 

 

CHAD

[AndrewT]

WOCS runs more frequently, right Hook?

[FLHooker]

WOCS runs more frequently, right Hook?

 

 

Andrew,

 

I believe so, but don't quote me on that.

 

 

CHAD

[Mymm]

Andrew,

 

I believe so, but don't quote me on that.

 

 

CHAD

 

 

New WOCS class starts every 2 weeks.

 

Exception being the christmas exodus and some extended holidays.

[FLHooker]

Right about the WOCS, 4 weeks every 4 weeks and the 6 week classes start every 4 also... So classes start every 2 weeks. However, I don't know how often the OCS classes start.

 

 

CHAD

[Helo_Rookie]

Andrew/Chad,

 

Quick question... I'm going over the Arco study guide and I'm curious as to how accurate the complex movements section is compared to the actual test... I've memorized the the symbols on the practice test but I hope this doesnt bite me in the butt on the actual test. Thats really the only section I'm overly concerned with... I've been thinking about the "why" question quite a bit, I actually started drafting some of the reasons I want to venture down the path being an officer and aviator. Right ow I'm just a bit nervous about the test, I want to make it on the first try..

 

 

 

Andrew,

 

I believe so, but don't quote me on that.

 

 

CHAD

[FLHooker]

Rook,

 

Stop it man, you will be fine. If I remember correctly the questions are the same or damn near. Either way, you'll do fine. Just keep studying the book until you take the test, do your best and let it ride from there.

 

 

CHAD

[Helo_Rookie]

Thanks Hook, just got the test time jitters- I'll keep you guys posted on the outcome

 

 

 

Rook,

 

Stop it man, you will be fine. If I remember correctly the questions are the same or damn near. Either way, you'll do fine. Just keep studying the book until you take the test, do your best and let it ride from there.

 

 

CHAD

[Helo_Rookie]

Hook/AndrewT/ All others..

 

I PASSED! I didn't score as high as I'd like to, but I got a 99 which is good enough! I spoke with the CW4 and the State aviation officer, 2/224 sounds like a good gig but they made it clear this wont be a one weekend a month, 2 weeks a summer gig, they do A LOT of flying due to their state mission (good in my book), in order to go warrant I'll have to enlist first since VA doesnt send "civilians" directly to WOCS... The Physical is next on my plate (no worries there). Quick question, since I know a few other states thats are looking for pilots, would it be a good idea to talk with them as well to see what they offer? Or should I keep the ball rolling with VA?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Hook, just got the test time jitters- I'll keep you guys posted on the outcome

[FLHooker]

That's awesome. I would just say... be careful if you are going to enlist. Make sure you have a deal that you are going to enlist and go straight to WOCS, instead of enlisting THEN having to apply for a WOCS slot. As for the other states, it wouldn't be a bad thing to call them and see if they have slots, you may be offered something better, you never know. Just be careful, if VA knows that you are calling other states, they may or may not be happy.

 

What aircraft are you going to be flying for VA?? I know a couple of the Hawk pilots there, good group.

 

Just keep in mind, you want to fly Hooks.

 

Either way, congrats!

 

 

CHAD

[Helo_Rookie]

I'm going to meet with a recruiter this afternoon, he told me to enlist under a 09W option which guarentee's WOCS, he said I could enlist into an aircrew mos but that wouldnt really help me as far as flying. Connecticut has 47's but they arent hurting for pilots and they want me to enlist into an mos then apply for WOFT. I'm tempted to meet with Delaware and Maryland but right now it seems like VA is probably the best option. 2/224 in VA fly's 60's only.. Delaware has Huey's and 60's and will eventually convert to all 60's... Connecticut on the other hand has 60's Huey's, 47's and will be getting 64's- they have 2 aviation facilities- the AASF and and AVCRAD facility- so I guess thats why they have such a variety of airframes. The 47's are awesome (not to mention the fastest airframe in the Army) but hard to find...When I got done with the AFAST the CW4 told me I can use my score elsewhere or if I considered going on active duty so I'm assuming he's leaving the option on the table if I want to check with other Aviation units- either way I'm treading very carefully.

 

 

 

 

 

That's awesome. I would just say... be careful if you are going to enlist. Make sure you have a deal that you are going to enlist and go straight to WOCS, instead of enlisting THEN having to apply for a WOCS slot. As for the other states, it wouldn't be a bad thing to call them and see if they have slots, you may be offered something better, you never know. Just be careful, if VA knows that you are calling other states, they may or may not be happy.

 

What aircraft are you going to be flying for VA?? I know a couple of the Hawk pilots there, good group.

 

Just keep in mind, you want to fly Hooks.

 

Either way, congrats!

 

 

CHAD

[Helo_Rookie]

Just got back from the recruiter, I'll be enlisting as an 09W which guarentees WOCS. In the meantime, I'll wear the rank of WOC until I complete my packet and are able to get a school seat. I'm trading a bonus for the WOCS seat and I'm told I'll get a bonus upon completion of flight training (not that big a deal, more concerned with Flight school)... so far so good!

[FLHooker]

SWEET man! I'd say you are getting hooked up then. As far as the airframe you are going with... They are all cool in their own right, it just depends on what YOU want to do/fly. If he said that about it being good elsewhere, I would say he understands that 60's may not be what you want to fly. Then again, getting your wings is the hardest part, transferring to another airframe AFTER you get your wings... either state to state or within the same state is easier than the initial. Having this info in your hand, there is nothing saying you can't call other states and see if they are willing to give you the same deal.

 

As for the bonus... You will get 10g's when you finish flight school (atleast that was what the amount was, I don't know if it has changed). I was like you... You mean you are going to send me to flight school AND give me a bonus?! Icing on the cake in my opinion.

 

In a completely different subject, if you can get your RW PPL prior to flight school, it will help in several ways... 1. it will help with the knowledge 2. it will help with helicopter control 3. your flight time while in flight school (TH-67 Only) will count as PIC because you are already rated. On the civilian side, that's big money... many of the companies want you to have PIC time. If you can't/don't want to get your PPL, it's really not a big deal, you will get it at Rucker anyways (you can get your Comm RW with Instrument ticket for $100).

 

 

Again, congrats, study up!

 

 

CHAD

Edited March 2, 2008 by FLHooker

[Helo_Rookie]

SWEET man! I'd say you are getting hooked up then. As far as the airframe you are going with... They are all cool in their own right, it just depends on what YOU want to do/fly. If he said that about it being good elsewhere, I would say he understands that 60's may not be what you want to fly. Then again, getting your wings is the hardest part, transferring to another airframe AFTER you get your wings... either state to state or within the same state is easier than the initial. Having this info in your hand, there is nothing saying you can't call other states and see if they are willing to give you the same deal.

 

As for the bonus... You will get 10g's when you finish flight school (atleast that was what the amount was, I don't know if it has changed). I was like you... You mean you are going to send me to flight school AND give me a bonus?! Icing on the cake in my opinion.

 

In a completely different subject, if you can get your RW PPL prior to flight school, it will help in several ways... 1. it will help with the knowledge 2. it will help with helicopter control 3. your flight time while in flight school (TH-67 Only) will count as PIC because you are already rated. On the civilian side, that's big money... many of the companies want you to have PIC time. If you can't/don't want to get your PPL, it's really not a big deal, you will get it at Rucker anyways (you can get your Comm RW with Instrument ticket for $100).

 

 

Again, congrats, study up!

 

 

CHAD

 

 

 

 

 

Hook,

 

 

Had my meeting with the SAO and Bn commander- I got the thumbs up! He did ask if I wanted to go the 96B (since I have a TS) enlisted route with the Bn which he said would help me down the road to get into becoming a tac. flight/communications officer (he mentioned 5 different routes warrant aviators can take over the course of a career with the bn.) as opposed to going the 09W or 09S route, only drawback is that will delay how soon I get to Rucker having to go through Huychuca first which would be a FY 09 IERW class, if I stay with the 09W, once I get federally recognized I'm pretty much on the waiting list and I have a better chance of filling a vacant slot in 08 should one open up and VA gets it, if not I'd be at the top of the list for the 09 slots when they are released. We spoke about commissioned opportunites as well but he's got a long list of commissioned candidates who want to be 15 branchers but relatively few Warrants so I'd have a slightly better chance going the warrant route and as he put it, when I reach W02 or higher I can apply to be a O-series officer if I choose to go that route. I wouldnt mind going to 96B school but Rucker is my main priority right now. On average it takes about 3-4 months for a PPL? by not going to Rucker with a PPL none of that time counts a PIC? Would you REALLY suggest getting it? I have a few private schools in mind so its definitely a can do...

[FLHooker]

He did ask if I wanted to go the 96B (since I have a TS) enlisted route with the Bn which he said would help me down the road to get into becoming a tac.

 

 

NO NO NO NO NO. In my opinion, and take that as opinion, you would shoot yourself in the foot. That would be the fastest way to ensure you don't fly. Going enlisted, and trying again to go to flight school, you would have to do everything all over again. You have the slot, take it. Worst case, you go the enlisted route, don't go to Rucker, get qualified with a verbal promise of flight school, the SAO retires, who is left to keep that promise?! Nobody. And, go Warrant. I have good friends that are comissioned guys, good people, good pilots, but they don't fly as much as I do. Again, there are exceptions, this is based off my experience. And if anything, tell him that you are interested in TACOPS (Tactical Operations) once you have gained enough experience in Flying/Aviation. To go to the TACOPS course you have to be a CW2 and a PC (PC is waiverable). The TACOPS officer is a pilot slot, who knows the aircraft capabilities, the battlefield, etc and can give sound advice to the Commander (simple definition of course, it's alot deeper). I am actually in a TACOPS slot here in FL.

 

As for the PIC time, it won't count as PIC time because you are not rated in a Helicopter yet. The way around it MAY be being SOLO, although I have never heard of that. I do know that if you have atleast your PPL RW you can log the TH-67 time as PIC. Like I said though, not mandatory, but PIC time is nice, especially in a Bell 206. Don't let me push you into spending money. I will say that, being a Guard guy, I wish I had done it. On the other hand, it's the minority that actually have a RW license prior to going to Rucker, if anything people have a FW license. And that doesn't help with logging PIC time.

 

Best of luck with your tough decisions! I know it's not easy.

 

 

CHAD

Edited March 16, 2008 by FLHooker

[Rookie02]

NO NO NO NO NO. In my opinion, and take that as opinion, you would shoot yourself in the foot. That would be the fastest way to ensure you don't fly. Going enlisted, and trying again to go to flight school, you would have to do everything all over again. You have the slot, take it. Worst case, you go the enlisted route, don't go to Rucker, get qualified with a verbal promise of flight school, the SAO retires, who is left to keep that promise?! Nobody. And, go Warrant. I have good friends that are comissioned guys, good people, good pilots, but they don't fly as much as I do. Again, there are exceptions, this is based off my experience. And if anything, tell him that you are interested in TACOPS (Tactical Operations) once you have gained enough experience in Flying/Aviation. To go to the TACOPS course you have to be a CW2 and a PC (PC is waiverable). The TACOPS officer is a pilot slot, who knows the aircraft capabilities, the battlefield, etc and can give sound advice to the Commander (simple definition of course, it's alot deeper). I am actually in a TACOPS slot here in FL.

 

 

CHAD

 

Hey Chad,

 

This is Jereme. I finally got my packet submitted, and didn't get picked up this month. I can play the waiting game every month, or I can be what I believe to be proactive and join the Guard. I just read above your advice as far as enlisting. Let me ask you this; as a Guard guy who went through the process not too long ago, is the following a sound plan? I believe strongly my AD packet will get picked up sooner or later, but from what I have heard from the recently accepted, I can expect a long wait time before I ship due to a bit of a back log of students at Rucker. I am friends with two of the pilots at the Guard base here in California, one is even the unit CO. They have steered me in this direction: enlist in their unit, go in as a flight ops guy -- AIT is only 6 weeks, and then as soon as I get back submit my packet. The only caveat is that CA has a backlog of like a year to go to flight school, but they were thinking in the meantime I could let the Guard pay for me to finish school and the Guard here will pay for 60% of flight school as well. I've spoken with the Warrant Officer Strength Manager in the area and went over my packet. She has assured me that she can get me in -- she claims to have a 100% success rate for her WOFT applicants. Unfortunately I have to be MOS'qd before I can drop a packet in this state. This is directly from the SAO, so I cannot get WOCS in my contract.

 

Since you are a Guard guy, what do you think? If anybody here has thoughts on this please feel free to chime in. I feel like my chances would be good since I'm friends with the CO and one of his pilots who is also the unit IP. That combined with me using the Loan Repayment Program to get my PPL, and finishing up my degree would make me pretty marketable to get into WOFT, but what do you think? It's a bit of a leap of faith.

 

What path did you take?

[FLHooker]

First off, I am not saying to never go enlisted. I was enlisted for over 5 years before I even put my packet in. And let the Guard pay for some of my college. My timing was almost perfect, I was picked up 5 weeks after I graduated from college. However, if you can go straight in as a 09W, that's what I would highly suggest, and sometimes wish I had known about that MOS when I enlisted.

 

Each state has different requirements, so I can not speak for CA, but I do know that the 09W MOS does exsist and many states utilize it. I will say that knowing people in the unit will not hurt at all, in fact, they are perfect for the LOR's, however, they are probably not the ones who will be selecting the future WO's for the state.

 

If you want to enlist, it won't hurt. You, as you stated, can use (it's the GI Bill you are talking about) to go to a local flight school. 2 things though, it needs to be a FAR part 141 approved course, and understand that the 60% you are talking about is a reimbursement, you have to pay 100% upfront, then put in a claim to be reimbursed. The college tuition payment is a little different, mostly depending on the state. FL for instance will pay 100% of your tuition at a STATE college for your BS/BA degree, and up to 75% for your masters. Look into CA as to what they offer. Again, if you are in the state, i would say that it is easier to be picked up, not even mentioning that for retirement, your time would go ahead and start instead of waiting until you are picked up.

 

Another thought... If you enlist in the Guard, and get the run around, and do not get picked up... Your active duty WOFT packet is still good, you can still turn active duty. Your state just has to release you to active duty, and I know a couple of guys that did just that. Your time in service would still be good for pay, but not for retirement. Also, if you do go enlisted, make sure that, at the very least E-3 is in your contract, the recruiter can offer you that as a bonus to get you to enlist. Another thought... Do you want to go 15P, Operations Specialist?? I understand that it's a shorter MOS, and it would get you MOS q'd, but MOS's like crewchief can turn into an FAA A&P license. It's a lot longer AIT, but depending on what you want to do, it may be worth looking into.

 

Hope that helps,

 

CHAD

[Rookie02]

First off, I am not saying to never go enlisted. I was enlisted for over 5 years before I even put my packet in. And let the Guard pay for some of my college. My timing was almost perfect, I was picked up 5 weeks after I graduated from college. However, if you can go straight in as a 09W, that's what I would highly suggest, and sometimes wish I had known about that MOS when I enlisted.

 

Each state has different requirements, so I can not speak for CA, but I do know that the 09W MOS does exist and many states utilize it. I will say that knowing people in the unit will not hurt at all, in fact, they are perfect for the LOR's, however, they are probably not the ones who will be selecting the future WO's for the state.

 

If you want to enlist, it won't hurt. You, as you stated, can use (it's the GI Bill you are talking about) to go to a local flight school. 2 things though, it needs to be a FAR part 141 approved course, and understand that the 60% you are talking about is a reimbursement, you have to pay 100% upfront, then put in a claim to be reimbursed. The college tuition payment is a little different, mostly depending on the state. FL for instance will pay 100% of your tuition at a STATE college for your BS/BA degree, and up to 75% for your masters. Look into CA as to what they offer. Again, if you are in the state, i would say that it is easier to be picked up, not even mentioning that for retirement, your time would go ahead and start instead of waiting until you are picked up.

 

Another thought... If you enlist in the Guard, and get the run around, and do not get picked up... Your active duty WOFT packet is still good, you can still turn active duty. Your state just has to release you to active duty, and I know a couple of guys that did just that. Your time in service would still be good for pay, but not for retirement. Also, if you do go enlisted, make sure that, at the very least E-3 is in your contract, the recruiter can offer you that as a bonus to get you to enlist. Another thought... Do you want to go 15P, Operations Specialist?? I understand that it's a shorter MOS, and it would get you MOS q'd, but MOS's like crewchief can turn into an FAA A&P license. It's a lot longer AIT, but depending on what you want to do, it may be worth looking into.

 

Hope that helps,

 

CHAD

 

Thanks for the info chad. I appreciate it. Pay up front eh? I knew there would be a catch -- good to know. Yeah, I have the E-3 addendum in my contract, but I cannot enlist in a 09W capacity in my state. I've asked everybody, even a Warrant who works for the SAO. The recruiter and my state's Warrant Officer Strength Manager are telling me what I need to be an E-4 to apply for WOFT, but that I should make that by the time I come back from AIT. Does that sound like to BS to you? I don't know if it's because I used to live in New York City and now I live in Los Angeles, but I don't typically trust anybody. I'm going to get my PPL before basic. I figure when I get back from BCT and get to my unit, if I'm working in OPS office, and I've got my PPL ticket, even though I already know the CO and a couple of pilots, I'll be better able to network and hopefully get that WOFT slot fast. But, we'll see.

 

Yeah, I do want to go 15P. I know what you're saying about the practicality of going in as a crewchief, which would translate into civilian work, but I'm not mechanically inclined. I can understand how they fly and what makes them run, but ask me to fix anything, and I have no common sense -- believe me I've tried to correct this deficiency for years. I do understand though that it's a moot job for the civilian side.

 

How's life post-WOFT man? I seem to remember a while back you posting something looking to find some civilian pilot work when you had gotten back from Rucker? Any luck? Just out of curiosity what kinds of civilian jobs do the pilots in your unit have?

[FLHooker]

Jereme,

 

Atleast you know your weaknesses, that's actually a good thing. As for the E-4 thing, it's not totally BS, you will make it quickly, provided you are in an E-4 slot. In the unit's MTOE (basically a list of what the unit is authorized, ranks and all) there will be E-3 slots, E-4 slots, E-5 slots, etc... Ask them what the rank is for the slot you are being given, that will give you a better indication of when you will pick up E-4. There is also a Time in Grade requirement, which I don't know what it is, but again, it is a fairly quick promotion.

 

Oh, and by the way, if you get your PPL BEFORE you go to basic, I dont think the GI Bill will pay for it, because it is before you are MOS Q'd. Becareful before you start slappin' down thousands of dollars.

 

 

As for me, it's going slowly. I fly up at my unit a good bit, but not as much as I would like to. I am working at a FW flight school, not 100% with it cause I'm not flying there, but we'll see! Thanks for asking.

 

CHAD

[Pogue]

Oh, and by the way, if you get your PPL BEFORE you go to basic, I dont think the GI Bill will pay for it, because it is before you are MOS Q'd. Becareful before you start slappin' down thousands of dollars.

Chad, The GI Bill will not pay anything for PPL. It doesn't kick in till Commercial/Instrument.

[FLHooker]

Pogue,

 

Good point, didn't even think about that part...

 

 

 

CHAD

[Helo_Rookie]

Chad,

 

Just wanted to give you an update on my process...the circles continue, I spoke with the Officer Strength manager again and nows he's telling me the recruiters were giving me bum scoop by trying to enlist me as an 09W- that guarentees WOCS but should only be used for technical warrants, apparently when they get slots they prefer to send flight candidates to WOCS and follow on to WOFT- so now I'm being advised by the CW4 to enlist as a 15T which will get me in the aircraft as aircrew versus trying to go 96B, the sooner I enlist the sooner they'll get my a flight physical since they told me I can't get one as a civilian. I could enlist under a "try-one" but would have an adverse effect on my flight packet since I need to have the service committment upon submission.

 

This is getting fairly annoying but I have not given up, I spoke to Maryland and Deleware, but I think my best option is to go with Virginia or look at the Army reserves since there's a ch-47 reserve unit that fly's out of Ft. Eustis, I prefer to stick with the guard but I just dont want to get the short end of the deal (which the officer strength manager assures me wont happen) and of course I'm having even less faith in the recruiter I first dealt with. On a good note, I've met the aviation unit and gotten the stamp of approval, so its just a matter of how/when to swear in. I'll be going to FLETC this summer so I'm hoping if I do join now, I'll be able to pre-drill or work something out for the time I'll be gone. The other option is to enlist for OCS but the waiting list for 15 branch commissioned officers is fairly long but the unit is low on warrants- it seems like a never ending cycle I swear.

[FLHooker]

Rook,  Damn. Is my first thought.... The 09W MOS is there for AVIATION WARRANT OFFICERS. To be a Technical Warrant, you HAVE to be atleast an E-5 with atleast 5-7 years of experience in that MOS. There is no such thing as street to seat for a Technical Warrant, that's why they are friggin' called TECHNICAL WARRANT. Sorry, I got carried away. Anyway... At the min, I would suggest the 15T over the 96B, pretty sure I said that before... Just for the simple fact that you will be around the birds.   As for the Reserves Vs. Guard, get the damn wings. That's what matters most. Transferring from Reserves to Guard or whatever is easier once you are aircraft qualified.   I haven't a clue what FLETC is.  Don't bother with the try 1. What will end up happening is... You will sign for that option, go for you flight physical, etc... And when you get to WOCS, they will make you reenlist, because you have to be under a contract for the duration of WOCS/ Flight School. Might as well sign up and get a bonus, if that is an option.    Sidenote, each state has a dedicated Warrant Officer Strength Manager, he'll be a Warrant, best to talk to him, not an O-grade that may or may not know what's really going on.   I also don't suggest the OCS thing, they are slotted even less Aviation slots than ROTC. Your chances of getting AV out of OCS are slim to none. Then you would branched some sh*t like Chem, then having the headache of putting in a request for a branch transfer, may or may not get that, blah blah blah...   Well, just let me know what else happens. Good luck         CHAD