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Third Class Privileges and Medical Issues


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#1 TNT

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 00:57

Hello everyone, I have been lurking here for a couple of weeks and am interested in pursuing helicopter training. I was diagnosed as a type 1 diabetic last year and have been controlling my blood sugars fairly well since then. I have been searching for information on what I need to do to pursue helicopter training with this disease and what qualifications I can attain. All I have found so far is that I am limited to third class privileges with a special waiver required.
My questions are:
What are third class privileges? Does this bar me from flying commercially? Has anyone gone through a medical waiver process similar to the one I will have to go through? Do I need to get this waiver before I begin training or before I can be tested?

Thanks for any information in advance.

#2 Goldy

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 23:07

To exercise commercial privileges you need at least a second class medical. You do not need ANY medical to take instruction, you do need your third class before you can solo an aircraft.

All I can tell ya.

Good Luck,
Goldy

(edit) Assumes you are a US Citizen, otherwise 49CFR Part 1552 applies and requires a bunch of stuff.

Edited by Goldy, 24 March 2008 - 23:12.

Fly Safe !!

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#3 TNT

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 23:12

Bummer, well at least I can start instruction before I get the waiver. Private business is not considered commercial from what I've been reading, so at least that avenue is open, though it would be a pretty tough sell as I'm not the most astute businessman. I now have to debate whether or not I want to go for my license now while I'm working or wait until I have more time. I had wanted to work on all my certs and transition to a a flying job but now it looks like my options will be much more limited in that regard. Doesn't mean I still can't have the time of my life flying, somethin' else will just have to pay the bills :)
Thanks for the info.

#4 PhotoFlyer

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 23:53

http://aviationmedic...mp;contentID=67

Scroll down, the info you want is near the bottom.
Basic Flying Rules: "Try to stay in the middle of the air. Do not go near the edges of it. The edges of the air can be recognized by the appearance of ground, buildings, sea, trees and interstellar space. It is much more difficult to fly there."

"Flying the helicopter is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."

#5 relyon

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 00:15

What are third class privileges? Does this bar me from flying commercially? Has anyone gone through a medical waiver process similar to the one I will have to go through? Do I need to get this waiver before I begin training or before I can be tested?

A first or second class medical certificate is needed to excercise pilot certificate privileges at anything higher than the private level with one notable exception: flight instruction. I know a helicopter flight instructor who has given thousands of hours of flight instruction and has never had higher than a third class medical.

Bob

#6 gmsemel

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 00:40

First thing first, when you say you are type 1, are you injecting insliun or are you taking pills to control your blood sugar? If you are injecting then you would be disqualified , with oral medication, with good control and documation to that effect, you can get a SODA Wavier. You need to see a flight Surgon and present all your records. Go to this sight http://aviationmedic...fuseaction=home They will help you with this matter.

Edited by gmsemel, 25 March 2008 - 00:41.


#7 heligirl03

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 01:01

A first or second class medical certificate is needed to excercise pilot certificate privileges at anything higher than the private level with one notable exception: flight instruction. I know a helicopter flight instructor who has given thousands of hours of flight instruction and has never had higher than a third class medical.

Bob


I think Type I diabetes is disqualifying for 1st/2nd class and therefore commercial privileges. My question here is, don't you need a 2nd class medical to get your Commercial certificate in order to get a CFI certificate? Maybe you only need a 3rd class medical to exercise CFI privileges, but how do you get them in the first place if you can not get a 2nd class medical? Just wondering....I suppose you might be able to get a waiver that stated no commercial privileges outside of instruction? Or maybe I'm missing the fine print (of which there is LOTS we know!) and you only need a 2nd class medical to EXERCISE commercial privileges not to earn them (checkride) ... gotta dig back into the fat book again as I'm getting closer to that particular one myself and ought to know by now....doh ;)

#8 helipilotm

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 01:15

I think Type I diabetes is disqualifying for 1st/2nd class and therefore commercial privileges. My question here is, don't you need a 2nd class medical to get your Commercial certificate in order to get a CFI certificate? Maybe you only need a 3rd class medical to exercise CFI privileges, but how do you get them in the first place if you can not get a 2nd class medical? Just wondering....I suppose you might be able to get a waiver that stated no commercial privileges outside of instruction? Or maybe I'm missing the fine print (of which there is LOTS we know!) and you only need a 2nd class medical to EXERCISE commercial privileges not to earn them (checkride) ... gotta dig back into the fat book again as I'm getting closer to that particular one myself and ought to know by now....doh ;)



Heligirl,

You gave yourself the answer. You only need a 2nd class to EXCERCISE the privleges. I did my commercial checkride with a 3rd class medical. I have heard of a few DPE's not allowing it becuase of the way they read the regs.

#9 TNT

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 11:48

Thanks for the info and links. I did some further investigation based on that. Type 1 is insulin dependent and as such, a waiver can only be had for 3/c privileges. Furthermore, a strict regimen of documenting blood sugars is required before and during flights. It seems like a major PITA but with new systems like DEXCOM continuous monitoring it actually wouldn't be too difficult.

Is one able to get a flight physical from a military flight surgeon and have that count as the documented physical?

If there is a possibility of earning 2/c privileges but not being able to exercise them, what would be the reason to earn them other than "just because I wanted to?"
In any case the decision is now a bit tougher than I imagined. I really enjoy flying from my limited experience but it is an extremely expensive hobby. I think I'll take a few lessons this summer and see if I really want to take it up knowing I won't be able to make a career of it.

#10 Gomer Pylot

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 12:36

The military exam might be usable, if the military doctor is an FAA designated airman medical examiner. If not, then the exam won't count.
Best Regards,

Gomer

#11 Goldy

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 20:29

Heligirl,

You gave yourself the answer. You only need a 2nd class to EXCERCISE the privleges. I did my commercial checkride with a 3rd class medical. I have heard of a few DPE's not allowing it because of the way they read the regs.


Not that it really matters, but you were right and the DPE's were wrong !
Fly Safe !!

Goldy-CPL(H),R22A, HP, B, BII, R44R1,RII,R44Clipper, R66, B47G2, S300C, S333, B206B3, DG500, RV10, E480B, AS350BA, what next?

FAA Aircraft Dealer
http://www.bestaerialphoto.com
http://www.phpa.org
http://www.rotorcraftpro.com
www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvN3GDEXPos
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuX9SO5uCno

#12 Goldy

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Posted 25 March 2008 - 20:37

Or maybe I'm missing the fine print (of which there is LOTS we know!) and you only need a 2nd class medical to EXERCISE commercial privileges not to earn them (checkride) ... gotta dig back into the fat book again as I'm getting closer to that particular one myself and ought to know by now....doh ;)


Commercial Eligibility requirements are found in 61.123. Do you find a requirement for medical anywhere in that section...nope..just FYI. The section that really gives it all away is 61.39, which are the requirements to take a practical test...any practical test. 61.39 a 4 requires a 3rd class medical only.

Hope this saves you some look up time.....but read them for yourself.

Goldy
Fly Safe !!

Goldy-CPL(H),R22A, HP, B, BII, R44R1,RII,R44Clipper, R66, B47G2, S300C, S333, B206B3, DG500, RV10, E480B, AS350BA, what next?

FAA Aircraft Dealer
http://www.bestaerialphoto.com
http://www.phpa.org
http://www.rotorcraftpro.com
www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvN3GDEXPos
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuX9SO5uCno

#13 FUSE

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Posted 28 March 2008 - 08:12

Before going any further into my post, please know that I am in NO WAY insinuating that you would lie on your medical. This is an FYI for all folks reading and a bit of insight for those that may wonder why you can't get a Class 1 or 2 medical if your diabetic and use insulin injections to control their diabetes.

Pilot sentenced to jail for lying on medical application
http://www.aopa.org/...80325pilot.html
Ray Jeffas aka "FUSE"

He that hoots with the owls at night cannot soar with the eagles in the morning.




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