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Cell phone towers


rotorhead874

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Tonight I was in a small town visiting a good friend when there was a medical call at his neighbors. They called for the air ambulance and it landed with no problems. When he went to depart he almost collided with a cell phone tower with no lights, I was standing there watching the Bell 407 get closer and closer to the tower and I couldn't believe that there are no warning lights. I asked the neighbors around and they said there isn't a light because it is a foot under the required height, now keep in mind this town is on a hill. How does one bring it to the city's attention?

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Call the city planning board and/or engineering department, however the tower probably isn't owned by the city and there will be little they can do. If a tower is under 200ft tall it doesn't have to be lit, although it should be. You could also call the local FSDO and complain, but again, it probably won't help. Your best bet would be to find out who owns the tower and talk to them. They won't want to put lights on it since they aren't required, so it wouldn't hurt to start a petition to send as well. Be sure to get the pilot to sign it.

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You can start your search here:

 

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/AsrSearch/...ationSearch.jsp

 

That should get you all the information you need to find the owners. If it is owned by the city, then I'm with PhotoFlyer try to contact the city planning board. But remember your trying to convence someone to spend money they don't leagally have to.

Edited by AngelFire_91
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Call the city planning board and/or engineering department, however the tower probably isn't owned by the city and there will be little they can do. If a tower is under 200ft tall it doesn't have to be lit, although it should be. You could also call the local FSDO and complain, but again, it probably won't help. Your best bet would be to find out who owns the tower and talk to them. They won't want to put lights on it since they aren't required, so it wouldn't hurt to start a petition to send as well. Be sure to get the pilot to sign it.

 

 

FYI

Cell towers under 199 feet do not need to be lite. Once you reach 200 feet it must be. Most all cell towers have been approved by the towns building inspector or town agent. If they are located within a 3 mile radios of an airport then the FAA must sign off of the height and location of the tower. This does not include towers that are grandfathered in by the town. Most towns have revised the zoning so that towers are located in specific zoned areas.

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Yeah.. anything under 200' AGL requires no lighting. And really, it doesn't need it. The pilot shouldn't have put himself in a position to get close to the tower. He knew he was landing somewhere not intended for landings, he should have a good recon fly-by and a steep flight path. If this isn't possible, he had no business landing there at night. The pilot can deny the landing zone.

 

On the other hand, maybe he knew exactly where it was. He might have seen it the same as you did, been warned by the EMS ground personnel, or knew about it from a practice landing prior to the emergency. A lot of EMS helos have predetermined landing spots in the towns in their coverage. The town I graduated high school from had a population of less than 1000 people, and still had a LZ picked out. The chopper that covered our area would come do a practice landing every once in a while.

 

On the other other hand, he might not have been that close. An aircraft higher and far away can seem lower and closer. It can be hard to judge things that aren't near the ground.

 

Either way, there's probably more to the story; it's hard to say exactly what was going on. Regardless, a tower that short doesn't really need any kind of lighting.

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Yeah.. anything under 200' AGL requires no lighting. And really, it doesn't need it. The pilot shouldn't have put himself in a position to get close to the tower. ...

Placerville airport (KPVF) in Placerville, CA has the optimum setup. The airport is high on a ridgeline and get this: the cell attennae are mounted on, of all places, the upper tower platform railing surrounding the airport beacon.

 

Bob

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I really hope the companies putting these towers up are not intentionally making them 199 feet, so they don’t have to spend money on lights.

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If it's not lit, even a high recon can miss a tower at night. I make steep, very slow approaches and vertical takeoffs in the dark, mostly because of my fear (terror, really) of wires. Steep approaches won't help much with towers, though. You just have to do everything really slowly, and give yourself time to stop and reverse if you have to.

 

Maybe he knew it was there and maybe he didn't, it's impossible to say without talking to the pilot. I certainly don't know every tower in my area, although I try to keep up with the bigger ones. Lights make it a lot easier, but an unlit tower not in the database can be hard to see in the dark, when your night vision has been destroyed by the lights at the scene, and your landing and searchlights. Doing everything very slowly is the only defense I know of.

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Actually, I don't think lights are required until a tower is over 300' AGL, not just 200'. However the FAA recommends 200', and any tower the FCC approves must comply with the recommendation, not just the requirement. So any goofball can put up a 300' tower in his backyard and be legal if he doesn't need a FCC license. I was told this during the "Flying in the Wire and Obstacle Environment" at HeliExpo in 2004.

 

So this is why you see them at just under 200' AGL. Often they build them on the highest hill they can find in that "cell". We have one 3-4 miles from our airport that is about 280' AGL above I-44, but just under the 200' AGL from the hill it sits on. I've landed on the highway right next to it several times at night.....I just know it's there.

 

Apparently, to put a high intensity lighting system on a 500' tower (and maintain it), it costs the owner upwards of $12,000 a year. With LEDs now, that number might go down. Now you know why they don't light them if they aren't required to.

 

One final note, the towers and powerlines depicted on a sectional chart are ***NOT*** for collision avoidance. They are there for visual/ground reference reasons.....so you can look, then identify where you are on the map based off that location of the wire or tower. Look for the disclaimer on the back side of the chart in the margin. You'll see a great difference in the MSL/AGL listed on the chart, the one that comes out on a NOTAM, and the one that comes in a TWAS'd GPS. Besides, sectionals only comes out every six months and are printed long before that. Worst of all, government agencies need to communicate the info so it gets printed in that window--good luck! We have a 1000'+ AGL tower in St. Louis that was built over a year ago and still hasn't been charted.

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There is a cell phone tower by the place I fly that also has no lights. It is very dangerous at night and it is unfortunate that it probably take an accident for anything to be done about it. FYI all NOTAMs have changed as of January 28th 2008. Local NOTAM’s have changed to NOTAM D’s if you did not already know. Check out the AC attached.

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Thanks for all your imput! I talked to the pilot, it was a new tower for him, he said the fire/rescue crew that night only advised of one power line, when he did a recon his flight crew seen the tower (only because if the reflection of the fire truck) and called it out along with 2 other lines and a unlit light pole.

 

I'm a Capt on a Vol. Fire Dept we make sure the following was done before we would let the aircraft land.

1. suitable lz size (we had a min. req. of 100' x100') 2. have a Pumper with a charged line with 2 firefighters in scba's. 3. Try to get a pt report to the flight crew (that's actually the first thing we try to do once they are in range.) 4. give the pilot a clear lz brief. 5. When the helicopter is on final we shut the emergency & headlights down on the units, just leaving the running lights on and have the battery powered led lz lights on untill they were down and then we turned the emergency lights back on for scene safety reasons. 6. Put a firefighter to stand guard about 50' out from the begining of the tail boom to make sure nobody got close to the tail rotors. For all of you guys that fly EMS tell me your thoughts on these steps, the helicopter that we work with the most loves it, but I would like to know what others think and improve it as much as possible.

 

As far as that tower, I talked to a few people and it sounds like the city is trying to come down on the tower owner.

post-13017-1206833309_thumb.jpg

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Cutting the lights is a big help. Trying to land with a jillion flashing lights and a few dozen headlights on bright pointing right at you is difficult at best. I don't care about a patient report at all, but the med crew does. We have different priorities, and you have to take care of both. A good LZ report is nice to get, but we seldom get much. I know you do the best you can about looking for wires, but I never trust the ground guys to find them, so I go in very slow. All it takes is a small wire that nobody found to scatter helicopter parts all over hell and half of Texas, and maybe parts of me, so I'm very cautious about that. Having somebody guard the tail rotor is a very good idea, and something else that is seldom done. Around accident scenes there can be all sorts of people walking around wanting a look, and I can't see back there at all. Sounds like you're doing a good job, so just keep on doing what you're doing.

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Thanks for all your imput! I talked to the pilot, it was a new tower for him, he said the fire/rescue crew that night only advised of one power line, when he did a recon his flight crew seen the tower (only because if the reflection of the fire truck) and called it out along with 2 other lines and a unlit light pole.

 

I'm a Capt on a Vol. Fire Dept we make sure the following was done before we would let the aircraft land.

1. suitable lz size (we had a min. req. of 100' x100') 2. have a Pumper with a charged line with 2 firefighters in scba's. 3. Try to get a pt report to the flight crew (that's actually the first thing we try to do once they are in range.) 4. give the pilot a clear lz brief. 5. When the helicopter is on final we shut the emergency & headlights down on the units, just leaving the running lights on and have the battery powered led lz lights on untill they were down and then we turned the emergency lights back on for scene safety reasons. 6. Put a firefighter to stand guard about 50' out from the begining of the tail boom to make sure nobody got close to the tail rotors. For all of you guys that fly EMS tell me your thoughts on these steps, the helicopter that we work with the most loves it, but I would like to know what others think and improve it as much as possible.

 

As far as that tower, I talked to a few people and it sounds like the city is trying to come down on the tower owner.

 

I like what you do, especially shutting off all the extra lighting. The extra brightness not only distracts, it keeps me from being able to see dimmer objects at night. After I find the LZ, that is, all those lights make that a lot easier.

As a pilot, and pilot only, a couple more suggestions:

Park vehicles under/near wires or other hazards. It gives us a better location to work around;

And, helicopter crashes are very active and somewhat prolonged events. In the process, the stricken bird usually beats itself to death, scattering debris, large and small, at varying velocities and energies in all directions, dangerous to anybody nearby. Everybody should be protected from the rotor blast, if nothing else, but especially "helicopter shrapnel" if something bad happens. You guys are too valuable to be victims of my mistake...

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Man you guys scare the hell out of me when you charge those hoses and get in the "ready to blast" stance. Those fire hoses are like a cannons. Just please don't shoot until we're on the fully on the ground.

 

Lights off when we're taking off and landing. It really helps us find you guys in the dark, but it blinds us coming in. Now that we have NVG, it's better if everything is off. Never point spot lights.....I had a guy point a light on a pole one time while I was landing, the problem was the pole was between him and I. Blinded me and I came really close to losing control and hitting a tree, luckily somebody got him to turn it off.

 

The worst are the guys that give brief that say "I've got a pole on my left", "I'm the one with the Chief hat", "I'm next to the pumper", etc. I don't know which one you are or which way you're facing.....and I don't know the difference between a pumper or any other fire truck. Everybody and every piece of equipment looks the same to us night or day. Use those little "hockey puck" strobes to tell us where to land. If you don't have those, once we identify the spot, get out of the way. Don't try to land us like a deck officer would on a battleship, because if there's a problem we WILL land on top of you.

 

The main thing is, the bigger the better. And if something is familiar and nearby, use it. At night, there's no reason to land us at the scene if there's a preset LZ less than few minutes away. It's just better for the safety of everyone to use an established LZ.....no mix up of coordinates, no question about surroundings, hopefully a windsock, fence, flat area, etc.

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  • 9 months later...

FAA advisory circular 70/74601K is the current obstruction marking reccomendations

14 CFR part 77 is the law, but the circular always holds up in court if there is an accident. so 200ft has become the standard.

 

 

"Any temporary or permanent structure, including all

appurtenances, that exceeds an overall height of 200

feet (61m) above ground level (AGL) or exceeds any

obstruction standard contained in 14 CFR part 77,

should normally be marked and/or lighted."

 

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...C70_7460_1K.pdf

 

"90% of wire and obstruction strikes occur below 200ft AGL."

 

be safe

 

Dave

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  • 5 years later...

 

 

Apparently, to put a high intensity lighting system on a 500' tower (and maintain it), it costs the owner upwards of $12,000 a year. With LEDs now, that number might go down. Now you know why they don't light them if they aren't required to.

 

Money...

 

Permit me a grumble.

 

there's a 500 foot tower with support cables just north of Intracoastal City, in one of THE busiest helicopter areas in the country. The lights have been bust for YEARS. It's one of those NOTAMs that have taken on eternal life. So WHO owns that thing, and how much is their light savings going to be dwarfed into nothingness when the MULTI - MILLION DOLLAR wrongful death law suit eventually comes their way?

 

If a million local pilots respond to an attorney's request for information? AFTER some poor slob has hit it?

 

YES IT'S BEEN OUT FOR-EVER AND YES WE HAVE BITCHED ABOUT IT AND NO, THEY DIDN'T DO NUTHIN'....

 

What amazes me is that a helicopter recently already hit an aerial just up the road. You'd think it would concentrate the mind of some cigar puffing bean counter on the twenty seventh floor of the Houston skyscraper?

 

And if we could find out who owned that stupid thing (yeah, I could make that effort myself, couldn't I?) I bet they have a nice website, in which there will be a nice series of verbal platitudes about how much they value their people, and flowers, and all living creatures.

 

But,damn, are we SAVING on that light bill....!!!!

 

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Towers, etc. are monitored by contract services for owners. In my experience, contacting them will get quick action.

 

525' tower 0.5 N of PHI Intracoastal is monitored by:

Team , Compliance
1898 Leland Drive
Marietta , GA 30067

Phone (678)265-6770

 

A search page to get this data:

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/AsrSearch/asrRegistrationSearch.jsp

 

Edit: The link above was posted earlier, but it still works.

 

Further to the discussion of technique for LZ operations, you shouldn't bet that you see every hazard, so go slow, slow enough to stop or avoid a last minute obstacle. Watch the area of the LZ or line of flight- lights disappearing can be your first indication that an unlit and unobserved tower is there...

Edited by Wally
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