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I'm interested in becoming a helicopter pilot, but I've been an electronics technician in various fields for nearly 20 years. I was just going to PM you my questions, but maybe your answers here can help others with similar questions.

 

In general, what is required to pick up a wrench or volt meter and actually be allowed to touch the aircraft?

 

Given my background, I should think I'd be a better fit for the avionics than mechanical or hydraulic systems in the beginning (I've even built some of the cable harnesses used in aircraft and weapons systems), but what I'm basically asking is for the minimum requirements to get in the door.

 

My reasoning is, since I'll be switching jobs as I switch locations, why not learn to fix the helicopters I'll eventually want to fly? Wouldn't that go a long way toward making me a better pilot? I should think it would help the rapport with my mechanic if I've been in his shoes.

 

Thus far, I'm finding a lot more information about the pilot side than the mechanic side, but even the hottest pilot can't fly a grounded aircraft.

 

***EDIT***

 

Ok, I've read the FAA requirements for certification. If I understand correctly, I might be able to get into a local shop fairly soon working under the supervision of an A&P certified mechanic. The closest FAA certified school looks to be Helena, MT...but I might be able to get some of the coursework through Flathead Community College extension programs.

 

I want to fly, but I also want to be sensible about it...hence the fall-back plan.

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Hi B.Z.

 

Rookie101 pm'd me a very simular question.

 

i try to break this down to the best laymans terms as possible.

 

let's start from the begining

 

Basic Requirements to Become an Aircraft Mechanic

 

I'm a US Citizen. What requirements must I meet to get a mechanic's certificate?

 

You must be

at least 18 years old;

able to read, write, and understand English.

 

You must get 18 months of practical experience with either power plants or airframes, or 30 months of practical experience working on both at the same time.

 

As an alternative to this experience requirement, you can graduate from an FAA-Approved Aviation Maintenance Technician School.

 

You must pass three types of tests;

 

a written examination

an oral test

a practical test

 

let's look at the practical experience first.

IF you can find an FBO that's willing to take on an apptrentise that's half the battle.

 

as it states "either power plant or airframe" avionics does NOT qualify as either sorry, repairing and certifying electronic eqiuipment for aircraft is a seperate entity.

 

"Do I need any other certificate to work on avionics equipment?"

 

If you have an airframe certificate you don't need any other certificate, but you must be properly trained and qualified and have the proper tools and equipment. You can even work on avionics equipment without a certificate if you have avionics repair experience from the military or from working for avionics manufacturers and related industries.

 

now the alternative is school

 

the FAA locator can help you locate your school

http://av-info.faa.gov/MaintenanceSchool.asp

 

this is the preferred method as most schools are 24 months or less, my was 12 months (Cheyenne Aero tech, Cheyenne Wyoming)

like pilot school, you need to ask alot of questions, cost, length of time, student financial assistance department available, what grants are available? job placement department, area housing, rental units so on and so forth. as noted above my school was in Wyoming, I live in Minnesota, so don't limit your options.

 

"You must pass three types of tests;"

 

Written tests

 

To apply to take the written test, you must present your proof of experience to an FAA inspector at the local FAA office. There are separate tests for airframe and power plant mechanic certificates, as well as a general test covering both. If the inspector decides you meet the requirements to take one of the tests, you may make an appointment for testing at one of the many computer testing facilities (PDF) world-wide. You can get a list of sample general, airframe, and power plant test questions.

 

"Proof of Experience"

this is a sticky area, basically you'll need to log your supervised time much as a pilot logs his flight, this means a log book of some sort outling what you did how long it took and a sign off by an A&P mechanic

also contained in you log is your employment company and start and end date of where you have be working.

 

FAA defination

You can work an FAA Repair Station or FBO under the supervision of a certified mechanic for 18 months for each certificate, or 30 months for both. You must document your experience with pay receipts, a log book signed by your supervising mechanic, a notarized statement from your employer, or other proof you worked the required time.

 

You can join one of the armed services and get training and experience in aircraft maintenance. Make sure you are in a military occupational specialty for which FAA gives credit. You can get a current list of acceptable specialties from the local FAA Flight Standards District Office (FSDO).

 

You must present an official letter from your military employer certifying your length of service, the amount of time you worked in each specialties, the make and model of the aircraft or engine on which you got practical experience, and where you got the experience. You cannot count time you spent training for the specialty, only the time you spent working in the specialty.

 

 

With both types of on-the-job training you should set aside additional study time to prepare for the written and oral/practical tests. The FAA will give you credit for your practical experience only after we review your paperwork and you have a satisfactory interview with an FAA Airworthiness inspector.

 

you can get a list of questions here

http://www.faa.gov/education_research/test...test_questions/

 

 

the written tests are broken down into 3 parts

airframe

power plant

general knowledge

 

there are 50 question for each part.

 

If you fail part of a test, you have to wait 30 days before you can take it again, unless you give a letter to the Examiner showing you've gotten additional training in the areas you failed.

 

You must pass all the tests within a 24-month period. The FAA will then issue you a certificate.

 

A Designated Mechanic Examiner gives you the oral and practical test.

 

all FAA approved A&P schools have either on staff or access to these examiners

 

The oral and practical tests cover 43 technical subjects. Typically tests for one certificate--airframe or power plant--takes about 8 hours.

 

NOW with all of this being said, IF your are mechanically inclined you can get certified.

 

so if you can sit upside down in the pilots seat, with your head up under the instrument panel and put a nut on the south bound end of a north bound bolt without being able to see either one and turn it in the right direction the first time, your ready to bend wrenches :D

 

P.S. retain a good chiropractor you'll need them.

 

let me know if you have any other ?'s

 

P.P.S. go to www.helicoptersonly.com for the books you'll need.

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Thank you for breaking it down for me. It's one thing to read the dry information from the FAA site, and it's quite another to get a more organic explaination from someone in the field.

 

I'd like to build upon my strengths while I save up the money to complete each phase of pilot training, and becoming a certified mechanic might be just the way to accomplish that task.

 

I noticed mention that most of the A&P Mechanics are unionized. I'm not a really big fan of the concept of unions (but I've never been in one), what is your perspective on that?

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Hi BZ your welcome on the human interpitation of the requirements

 

UNIONS???

Well lets put it this way, the unions that your here about are for the most part are the large airlines and some GOM companies(?? don't know for sure), the vast majority of jobs are none union and rightfully so.

 

don't worry about that.

 

use the FAA school link to find a school near kalispell and then work your way out from there.

take a map and start compassing circles from where you're at in 100 mile incraments and search for your school. this will help if your limited on your travels.

 

for the non school route go down and talk to Don at Red Eagle Av. intro yourself and be blunt about your visit. talk to the cheif pilot and the cheif mechanic, let them know what you want to do. some small town airfields can yeild some great potentials

you do not want to just try to fix a/c let them know you'll clean the hanger, wash the a/c, fuel a/c whatever it takes to be productive for them. do not expect any kind of real pay to start, that'll come as you work your way along.

 

working as an apprentise can yield a couple of things. you build time towards your A&P experience and after a while you can swap fix time for fly time (did that myself).

 

I'm sure instructors here will confirm this. I was told that I flew smoother (FW) because I knew how the a/c worked and did not man handle the controls.

 

hope this helps

 

fly safe

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One thing to keep in mind about doing the A&P through the 30 month experience deal.....If you do all of that at the flight school, you're probably only getting experience on piston helicopters. On you A&P written, orals, and practicals you WILL have to explain and work on airplanes, turbine engines, etc.

 

My writtens, orals, & practicals took place over the course of 4 days--it's a total of NINE different test (each of the 3 mentioned has a the General, Powerplant, and Airframe subjects.)

 

The writtens are each out of a test bank of 1000+ questions. I think you get 50 on the General and 80 on the Airframe and Powerplant tests. Like the pilot tests, you get the answers ahead of time, but try memorizing 3000 questions!

 

The O's & P's encompass all kinds of subjects. I had to balance an elevator on a Piper Warrior, fabricate a replacement hydraulic tube (b-nuts with bends, etc.), drill and shoot rivets on an airframe, recharge a air-oil strut, do a compression check, perform a liquid penetrant test on a part with a known flaw, fabricate a sheet metal patch, internally time a magneto, and more. I had to show how I would make a repair to a fabric wing--what knots I would use; then work out a splice repair on a spruce wing rib. Puncture tests on a fabric wing, welding, composites, pressure carburetors, and more.

 

Your A&P will not be restricted to the category, class, or type of aircraft you are working on......It's good for EVERYTHING. From gliders, to helicopters, to 747s, to Piper cubs. You have to know enough about them all to pass the test.

 

Just keep that in mind when you logging those hours toward the 30 months. You may know those helicopters inside and out, but that's only the tip of the iceberg. I'm not trying to crap on your idea, it's just a lot bigger deal than most people think.

 

I recommend you go the avionics route. You know it, and there's a lot more money in it.......

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Hey Delorean, thx for your input, as a pilot/A&P your info is greatly needed to those trying to make their choice of schooling.

 

you make numerous points to your O & P's as I did many of the same myself during my testing.

 

one point I want to show about non school experience is this.

 

"You must document your experience with pay receipts, a log book signed by your supervising mechanic"

 

the 2 points of this statement breaks down as follows

 

"You must document your experience with pay receipts"

this statement only points out that a person needs to show their pay check stubs for the time of employment.

 

"a log book signed by your supervising mechanic"

THIS IS THE PART that needs to be paid attention to;

 

as I stated above an apprentise needs to keep a log book of the jobs performed and the time it took to do the job.

here is a for instanse;

you are allow to do a 100 hour inspection on a Cessna 172RG under supervision of the chief mechanic

 

what you want to enter into your log book is this;

 

first you make a copy from the manufactures manuals outlining the inspection procedures and attach that to your log, complete each part as outlined and then have it signed off. continue this till all procedures are complete and signed off.

 

this registered and signed off assignment is now eligable as practical exam projects.

having enough of these in your log MAY constitute as your practical for that catagory (airframe or powreplant).

 

having the signed off knowledge will get you through your final test easier as you've been there done that B)

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"Your A&P will not be restricted to the category, class, or type of aircraft you are working on......It's good for EVERYTHING. From gliders, to helicopters, to 747s, to Piper cubs. You have to know enough about them all to pass the test."

 

this is a true statement.

what you need to know is included in all of the FAA approved material used for the training and testing of mechanics so do not panic that you have to buy or train outside of where you're at.

 

ALL of the books you need can be found on www.helicoptersonly.com

 

feel free to ask about any thing not covered. :D

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"Your A&P will not be restricted to the category, class, or type of aircraft you are working on......It's good for EVERYTHING. From gliders, to helicopters, to 747s, to Piper cubs. You have to know enough about them all to pass the test."

 

this is a true statement.

what you need to know is included in all of the FAA approved material used for the training and testing of mechanics so do not panic that you have to buy or train outside of where you're at.

 

ALL of the books you need can be found on www.helicoptersonly.com

 

feel free to ask about any thing not covered. :D

 

Thanks guys for your input.

 

As I continue to work this out in my mind, it occurs to me my best bet is a combination of practical experience and schooling. The nearest school is Helena, MT, but I'll be in Kalispell for a couple of years anyway helping my folks build a house. I may already have a technician job lined up by the time I get there.

 

Here's a rough sketch of what I'm thinking at present:

 

*Get a technician job immediately on arrival.

*Take the flight to see if I'm as interested as I think I am.

*Get the physical to see if I'll have any problems down the road.

*Start my collection of manuals to learn how to fix em and how to fly em.

*Twist wrenches for a local shop while I'm on-call at the technician job.

*Go to Flathead Community College to work on finishing my engineering degree and pick up whatever extension courses might be available toward the A&P course.

*When I can afford it, get an apartment in Helena and finish off my degree and A&P certs.

*Work as a mechanic at a shop where I can get flight time whenever I can afford it (or trade for it as mentioned previously).

*Obtain my private rotary wing license, and then evaluate whether I really want to go forward to commercial and larger aircraft.

*If yes, then CFI, Instrument, CFII, Transition to Turbines, Mountain, External Load, etc.

*If no, then I'll just keep twisting wrenches while cooking up hair brained ideas about how to engineer better solutions to rotary wing flight.

 

I'm not especially impressed with how many moving parts are involved in a rotary wing aircraft, and I'm inclined to work on designing a lighter, safer, and simpler solution. Somebody's going to do it, why not me?

 

Oh, I almost forgot. I also want to buy an Apache AH64D to speed up those cross country commutes. B)

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