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nightmare515 last won the day on November 16 2014

nightmare515 had the most liked content!

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  1. I fly 64's. I came from Tanks and was a ground pounder while enlisted. I couldn't see myself flying anything but the Apache. I'm thoroughly pleased that I got what I wanted. My mentality was that if I am going to be on the ground I want to be in the meanest and baddest thing in the arsenal, so I enlisted for Tanks. If Im going to be in the air I want to be in the meanest and baddest thing in the arsenal, so I opted for Apaches. In my mind I have now held the two coolest jobs in the entire military. And no I'm not "compensating" for anything as my friends like to say lol.
  2. Yeah I understand, I honestly meant no disrespect in my original post. I actually contemplated even writing it due to the controversial nature of it but literally as I was typing it a buddy of mine called me complaining about his unit, then he said "Well at least it's not WOCS, NOTHING is as bad as WOCS lol". That triggered me start reflecting on it and post what I did. It was mainly just me complaining outloud which I shouldn't have done. A lot of us veterans have still hold on to the same ol cliche of "back in MY day it was....". Many of us feel that since we got dragged through the dirt growing up in the Army then everyone should. Which is exactly the same attitude that breeds courses like WOCS, which makes me a hypocrite, which I openly admit. Many of us do it in one way or another. The grunts who went through Ft Benning BCT talk trash about those who went to Ft. Jackson because BCT there is easier than at the Infantry school. The Armor guys who went through Hard Knox talk trash about the newer guys who go through Ft. Benning because "its not as hard as what we went through". Those of us who lived in tiny outposts without running water during deployment talk trash about those who lived on big bases like Camp Victory or Kandahar Airfield. "Those aren't deployments you people had a TGI Fridays on the base for Christs sake." etc. But again I honestly meant no disrespect in my original post. It was merely me complaining outloud which I shouldn't have done. I apologize.
  3. I'll be honest, I believe much of the resentment towards WOCS by prior NCO's, myself included, stems from a bit of an "entitlement" attitude that we gained by having leadership roles in the military. As an NCO you tend to get exempt from much of the "Army" stuff like mass punishments and private treatment and whatnot. It's almost like a slap in the face. You mean to tell me I am a prior E-6 and you are making me dress up in goofy bright colored PT outfits and sing songs and earn my right to drink coffee? Are you serious? I have to arrange my silverware a certain way and stand at parade rest in the chow line? Are you kidding? I used to be an NCO Im not a private... That was the attitude held by almost everyone in my 5 week class, myself included. We even had our class leader at the time get into a pissing contest with a TAC officer during PT one morning. "How about you have your guys show up to formation on time class leader". "How about you give people enough time to get out of bed and into formation? Who the hell only has 5 mins to get in formation? I was a QRF Platoon Sgt in Iraq 4 times and even when it actually mattered we had 15 mins to get ready". It was a lot of tension, although I did honestly feel the same way I was able to sit back and be quiet and just suck it up. I never got written up in WOCS for anything. Many of the others just couldn't handle what they felt was just ridiculous and disrespectful to them as prior NCOs. For me I just knew it would end one day and I would never have to deal with it again so I kept my mouth shut and played the game. I do completely understand what you are saying about the prior service members having the most trouble. But from my own experience with my class I honestly believe much of it is due to them just not caring enough to try that hard. For example my class lost every single WOCS olympics to the 7 week class. We never even won a single event for the entire time we were there, not because the 7 week class was necessarily better than us but because nobody in my class would even volunteer to do any of the events. When they were volun"told" they would walk up and do one pull up and walk away or something. Or jog at a nice leisurely pace during the sprints because "Im not hurting myself for this..." I guess at the end of the day what Im trying to say is the reason some are saying the 7 week course should keep the BCT atmosphere and the 5 week course should be relaxed is because those in the 5 week course are prior NCOs and have earned the right not get treated like that anymore. The 7 week course are street to seat people who haven't been in the Army yet and haven't earned that right yet. Sort of like how in the real Army you usually don't see an E-7 yelling at an E-6 but an E-7, E-6, E-5 etc will yell at a Private. NCO's have earned the right to get "talked to" when they make mistakes, Privates get yelled at and dropped. I am by no means saying that is an appropriate way of thinking about this matter nor am I trying to put anyone down, but that is how many people feel. Im a 64 pilot btw.
  4. Lets keep the name calling and personal attacks out of the discussion, there is no place for such things here. We are all here to share our experiences and help each other along our route to Army Aviation. After seeing multiple members complaining about a particular course it is only rational that a newer member of the military may wonder why they should have to go through such a course while veterans believe they should be exempt. A simple explanation of your opinion would suffice. The same point could have been made without the personal attacks on members here.
  5. This is a BIG one. Depending on what type of unit you go to as a WO1 you will experience different things. Some units are great and don't play the whole "new guy gets treated like trash" thing. Other units are rough on the new guys and that can be a tough pill to swallow especially for prior enlisted. Fortunately for me I have a GREAT unit. I'm still technically the new guy but my unit was nothing but supportive when I first arrived. I immediately felt part of the unit and various people took me under their wing and were just overall very approachable. I'll never forget the first day I arrived after hearing the horror stories about being the "new guy" in an aviation unit. I was greeted by everyone and told "welcome, don't hesitate if you have any questions we're all here to help you". And everyone made it a point to come over and introduce themselves and shake my hand. Everyone from the crew chiefs to the IPs made me feel like part of the family right away. That feeling took me months to achieve when I first joined the Army years ago at my very first unit. It literally took about 20 mins after arriving at my new unit for the tension to fly off of my shoulders. These guys are cool, the units down the hall...not so much. That's my unit. My friends went to different units and they all received the traditional WOJ welcome. You're the new guy, sit down and shut up and stock the fridge. Those are the situations where you have to bite your tongue. Yes you used to be an E-6 or an E-7 or in my good friends case an E-8. But now you are a WO1, the bottom of the barrel in a new field. Even though you were in Iraq when most of these CW2's were chasing girls in high school it doesn't matter anymore. That's where the humility comes in to play. Now of course it's easy for me to say that because I didn't get that treatment. But from what Im hearing it seems like the majority of people do. That's where a course like WOCS can be beneficial. If you can deal with the BS in WOCS then you can deal with the BS of being the new guy in a new unit. Just have to bite your tongue and call your friends and complain every couple nights like my friends do me at least 3 times a week.
  6. WOCS can actually teach newcomers something. Many street to seat folks don't know how to write memo's or manage time in such a manner. It can also further reinforce the discipline required in the military. BCT teaches the bare minimum skills required to survive in the Army. Leadership and other such skills are acquired by actually being in the Army for awhile. As you said, the few people who struggled in your class were prior service folks who had discipline issues. As a new Soldier you don't really yet know what's "stupid" and what is "stupid but necessary". A lot of things in the military seem stupid but are actually necessary. As you gain more experience in the military you will better be able to tell which is which. Those prior service folks got in trouble for discipline likely because they have been in the military before and they believe that the course is pointless to them. It's hard to "play the game" when you aren't actually learning anything. It would be like taking a rated rotary wing aviator with 2000 hours of flight time and making them go through IERW to "learn" how to fly. They would be unmotivated and annoyed at having to sit through months of classes on aviation and "learn" how to hover again when they already know how to fly as well as the instructors who are trying to "teach" them. For someone who has never touched a helo before IERW is necessary, for someone who knows how to fly already IERW is pointless. That same logic can be applied to WOCS when talking about Senior NCO's going through it.
  7. I believe there is some confusion of what a gentlemans course is. A gentleman's course is one where you are treated like a normal person without the basic training style regiment of a place like BCT or WOCS. Like a college course so to speak. There are plenty of courses like that in the Army. IERW itself could be considered a gentleman's course. Show up to class at this time, show up to the flight line at this time, and go home. That's the difference. WOCS is nothing at all like a gentleman's course. I believe WOCS is purely a right of passage for NCO's who are taught to "humble" themselves from being a Platoon Sgt, Squad Leader, Section Sgt, 1st Sgt etc, to a WOJ at the bottom of the barrel again. Nothing in the course was even remotely hard. The most difficult thing by a long shot was holding your tongue because of how ridiculous most of the activities are. What got guys in trouble the most in my class was the fact that some people just couldn't accept being treated like that. The majority of our write ups didn't come from mistakes made it came from guys literally telling the TAC Officers exactly how they felt about them and the course. It's hard to go from being a Senior NCO to being treated like a child especially when you likely have more time in service than the people who are yelling at you.
  8. Im going to go ahead and be brutally honest here but WOCS is a course designed for new members of the Army and lower enlisted. There shouldn't be a 5 week WOCS course in its current form for prior NCOs. It should be a gentleman's course for the 5 week people and the 7 week course should stay the same. I'm pretty sure every prior NCO who went through WOCS writes that on the critique. Even when speaking to the TAC officers after graduating they mostly said the same thing. Military schools are supposed to teach you something. WOCS doesn't teach a prior NCO anything they don't already know about military leadership. We know how to write memo's, we know how to lead Soldiers we don't have to play pretend "Candidate Platoon Sergeant" roles we were mostly real Platoon Sergeants before getting there. We don't need to learn how to do an FTX every single person in the 5 week class had at least one deployment under their belt. The only interesting part about WOCS was taking the history classes (that I already took because I went to college). All of which is information that can be gained by giving us a schedule and telling us to show up to class on time like college. I've taken a lot of schools in my career and I have never honestly come out of a school having literally learned nothing new. To this day the only thing I have learned from WOCS was how to fold my t shirts into nice little squares. Thats literally it. I feel as though WOCS has become more of a right of passage rather than an actual teaching school. I believe it has fallen victim to the whole "well we had to go through it so everybody should go through it". It's called the Warrant Officer Career College. It should operate like a college for prior NCOs and they can keep the basic training style setting for new Soldiers. Just my 2 cents
  9. When I was in basic we had a few prior Navy guys that got inserted into our class. They didn't do anything with us they lived downstairs in their own rooms with their ipads and cell phones and stuff. They had pretty much free roam of the base and could change into civilian clothes and leave the barracks after 1700 everyday and on the weekends. They didnt do any of the training exercises they just followed us around and watched us do everything. That was years ago though Im not sure if anything has changed or not since then.
  10. I felt bad for the people in SERE during last years winter. It actually snowed at Rucker last year and they shut the base down lol. In SERE you have to do a water crossing thing with your ruck sack. And you do it whether its June or January. I spoke to a few guys who did it in January. Ouch....Miserable. Sounds like Marine4WOFT will be in SERE around the spring time which is perfect. Don't have to worry about the killer heat index of the American deep south in the summer and won't be freezing to death in the dead of winter.
  11. Screw you all. I'm at Ft Drum, you know...that lovely base 30 miles from the freakin Canadian border. Talking about its gonna be "cold" at Rucker soon... Go take a cold shower then go stand by a fan on high. Thats how it feels to live here lol
  12. I got PDQ'd at MEPS and sent home without even being able to put up an argument. Went to the Navy and AF recruiters and talked to them and was told "If the Army failed you then you definitely won't pass our medical tests, we are more strict then the Army". Few days later while sitting in my college History class I got a call from my recruiter telling me to come see him ASAP. Somehow he got the PDQ lifted and the rest is history. I believe a lot of this waiver stuff is based on timing, who you know, and what sort of mood the medical personnel are in that day. I watched guys take the blood pressure test and fail one time and get sent packing by a medic. I watched other guys allowed to literally sit there on the machine and get their blood pressure read UNTIL they passed, even if it took 3 hours and them using multiple different machines, laying down, turning the lights off, having a nurse massage them and hold their hand etc. A lot of this stuff isn't as cut and dry as people think. SOME medics really will try to help you. Some really do seem like they hate you and are gunning for you to fail.
  13. I see so many people who try to get ahead of the game when it comes to flight school in general. I get it, everyone wants a leg up or to get a head start. But plenty of members have said this before and I will say it again. Here is the best way to get ready for WOCS: Head to Rucker early, go to Panama City Beach or Destin. Rent a hotel, and relax. It's winter time now so no beach for you, so go grab a hotel for cheap (its offseason) grab a few beers and watch TV with your feet up. BCT, WOCS, Flight school etc are all designed for you to arrive there knowing absolutely nothing at all and having done no prep work. They are schools designed to TEACH you what you need to know. If they expected you to know the WOCSOP before you got there then they would send you one once you were selected and tell you to read it before arriving. You have plenty of time to get your stencils made, stencil your stuff, learn the WOCSOP, etc. If you know NOTHING about the Army at all when you arrive at Basic then you will learn everything you need to know when you get there. Don't go start trying to read field manuals and battle drills before you arrive it's a waste of time and energy. I even met a guy who was systematically starving himself on purpose to "prepare for SERE". Relax guys you will be fine. I guarantee you that if you spend all of your time trying to prepare for these courses before you get there then you will be kicking yourself for wasting your time when you arrive and realize you could have been watching the ball game instead because you actually have time to learn what you need to know when you arrive. Just make sure you are in decent shape when you arrive so you don't start dying on the runs they do (if you get a class that likes to run a lot, some do some don't). Don't start cramming 5 and 9's, don't hunt the internet for a WOCSOP, don't ask people to help you write your letter, don't go to Home Depot and try to get stencils made, and for the love of God don't start starving yourself thinking it will give you a leg up at SERE (that was the most ridiculous one I heard). Enjoy your freedom while you can and relax. I 100% promise you that you WILL NOT be the dumbest person there when you arrive. You will certainly meet some people there who you will wonder how the hell they even passed middle school let alone made it to WOCS.
  14. Nailed it! Spot on with the Apache girl. Not beautiful in the traditional sense of what society views as pretty, exotic and looks "different" but still hot in her own way. Kinda has the "I'm sexy AND I will hurt you" look. Perfect!
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