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nightmare515

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Everything posted by nightmare515

  1. I fly 64's. I came from Tanks and was a ground pounder while enlisted. I couldn't see myself flying anything but the Apache. I'm thoroughly pleased that I got what I wanted. My mentality was that if I am going to be on the ground I want to be in the meanest and baddest thing in the arsenal, so I enlisted for Tanks. If Im going to be in the air I want to be in the meanest and baddest thing in the arsenal, so I opted for Apaches. In my mind I have now held the two coolest jobs in the entire military. And no I'm not "compensating" for anything as my friends like to say lol.
  2. Yeah I understand, I honestly meant no disrespect in my original post. I actually contemplated even writing it due to the controversial nature of it but literally as I was typing it a buddy of mine called me complaining about his unit, then he said "Well at least it's not WOCS, NOTHING is as bad as WOCS lol". That triggered me start reflecting on it and post what I did. It was mainly just me complaining outloud which I shouldn't have done. A lot of us veterans have still hold on to the same ol cliche of "back in MY day it was....". Many of us feel that since we got dragged through the dirt growing up in the Army then everyone should. Which is exactly the same attitude that breeds courses like WOCS, which makes me a hypocrite, which I openly admit. Many of us do it in one way or another. The grunts who went through Ft Benning BCT talk trash about those who went to Ft. Jackson because BCT there is easier than at the Infantry school. The Armor guys who went through Hard Knox talk trash about the newer guys who go through Ft. Benning because "its not as hard as what we went through". Those of us who lived in tiny outposts without running water during deployment talk trash about those who lived on big bases like Camp Victory or Kandahar Airfield. "Those aren't deployments you people had a TGI Fridays on the base for Christs sake." etc. But again I honestly meant no disrespect in my original post. It was merely me complaining outloud which I shouldn't have done. I apologize.
  3. I'll be honest, I believe much of the resentment towards WOCS by prior NCO's, myself included, stems from a bit of an "entitlement" attitude that we gained by having leadership roles in the military. As an NCO you tend to get exempt from much of the "Army" stuff like mass punishments and private treatment and whatnot. It's almost like a slap in the face. You mean to tell me I am a prior E-6 and you are making me dress up in goofy bright colored PT outfits and sing songs and earn my right to drink coffee? Are you serious? I have to arrange my silverware a certain way and stand at parade rest in the chow line? Are you kidding? I used to be an NCO Im not a private... That was the attitude held by almost everyone in my 5 week class, myself included. We even had our class leader at the time get into a pissing contest with a TAC officer during PT one morning. "How about you have your guys show up to formation on time class leader". "How about you give people enough time to get out of bed and into formation? Who the hell only has 5 mins to get in formation? I was a QRF Platoon Sgt in Iraq 4 times and even when it actually mattered we had 15 mins to get ready". It was a lot of tension, although I did honestly feel the same way I was able to sit back and be quiet and just suck it up. I never got written up in WOCS for anything. Many of the others just couldn't handle what they felt was just ridiculous and disrespectful to them as prior NCOs. For me I just knew it would end one day and I would never have to deal with it again so I kept my mouth shut and played the game. I do completely understand what you are saying about the prior service members having the most trouble. But from my own experience with my class I honestly believe much of it is due to them just not caring enough to try that hard. For example my class lost every single WOCS olympics to the 7 week class. We never even won a single event for the entire time we were there, not because the 7 week class was necessarily better than us but because nobody in my class would even volunteer to do any of the events. When they were volun"told" they would walk up and do one pull up and walk away or something. Or jog at a nice leisurely pace during the sprints because "Im not hurting myself for this..." I guess at the end of the day what Im trying to say is the reason some are saying the 7 week course should keep the BCT atmosphere and the 5 week course should be relaxed is because those in the 5 week course are prior NCOs and have earned the right not get treated like that anymore. The 7 week course are street to seat people who haven't been in the Army yet and haven't earned that right yet. Sort of like how in the real Army you usually don't see an E-7 yelling at an E-6 but an E-7, E-6, E-5 etc will yell at a Private. NCO's have earned the right to get "talked to" when they make mistakes, Privates get yelled at and dropped. I am by no means saying that is an appropriate way of thinking about this matter nor am I trying to put anyone down, but that is how many people feel. Im a 64 pilot btw.
  4. Lets keep the name calling and personal attacks out of the discussion, there is no place for such things here. We are all here to share our experiences and help each other along our route to Army Aviation. After seeing multiple members complaining about a particular course it is only rational that a newer member of the military may wonder why they should have to go through such a course while veterans believe they should be exempt. A simple explanation of your opinion would suffice. The same point could have been made without the personal attacks on members here.
  5. This is a BIG one. Depending on what type of unit you go to as a WO1 you will experience different things. Some units are great and don't play the whole "new guy gets treated like trash" thing. Other units are rough on the new guys and that can be a tough pill to swallow especially for prior enlisted. Fortunately for me I have a GREAT unit. I'm still technically the new guy but my unit was nothing but supportive when I first arrived. I immediately felt part of the unit and various people took me under their wing and were just overall very approachable. I'll never forget the first day I arrived after hearing the horror stories about being the "new guy" in an aviation unit. I was greeted by everyone and told "welcome, don't hesitate if you have any questions we're all here to help you". And everyone made it a point to come over and introduce themselves and shake my hand. Everyone from the crew chiefs to the IPs made me feel like part of the family right away. That feeling took me months to achieve when I first joined the Army years ago at my very first unit. It literally took about 20 mins after arriving at my new unit for the tension to fly off of my shoulders. These guys are cool, the units down the hall...not so much. That's my unit. My friends went to different units and they all received the traditional WOJ welcome. You're the new guy, sit down and shut up and stock the fridge. Those are the situations where you have to bite your tongue. Yes you used to be an E-6 or an E-7 or in my good friends case an E-8. But now you are a WO1, the bottom of the barrel in a new field. Even though you were in Iraq when most of these CW2's were chasing girls in high school it doesn't matter anymore. That's where the humility comes in to play. Now of course it's easy for me to say that because I didn't get that treatment. But from what Im hearing it seems like the majority of people do. That's where a course like WOCS can be beneficial. If you can deal with the BS in WOCS then you can deal with the BS of being the new guy in a new unit. Just have to bite your tongue and call your friends and complain every couple nights like my friends do me at least 3 times a week.
  6. WOCS can actually teach newcomers something. Many street to seat folks don't know how to write memo's or manage time in such a manner. It can also further reinforce the discipline required in the military. BCT teaches the bare minimum skills required to survive in the Army. Leadership and other such skills are acquired by actually being in the Army for awhile. As you said, the few people who struggled in your class were prior service folks who had discipline issues. As a new Soldier you don't really yet know what's "stupid" and what is "stupid but necessary". A lot of things in the military seem stupid but are actually necessary. As you gain more experience in the military you will better be able to tell which is which. Those prior service folks got in trouble for discipline likely because they have been in the military before and they believe that the course is pointless to them. It's hard to "play the game" when you aren't actually learning anything. It would be like taking a rated rotary wing aviator with 2000 hours of flight time and making them go through IERW to "learn" how to fly. They would be unmotivated and annoyed at having to sit through months of classes on aviation and "learn" how to hover again when they already know how to fly as well as the instructors who are trying to "teach" them. For someone who has never touched a helo before IERW is necessary, for someone who knows how to fly already IERW is pointless. That same logic can be applied to WOCS when talking about Senior NCO's going through it.
  7. I believe there is some confusion of what a gentlemans course is. A gentleman's course is one where you are treated like a normal person without the basic training style regiment of a place like BCT or WOCS. Like a college course so to speak. There are plenty of courses like that in the Army. IERW itself could be considered a gentleman's course. Show up to class at this time, show up to the flight line at this time, and go home. That's the difference. WOCS is nothing at all like a gentleman's course. I believe WOCS is purely a right of passage for NCO's who are taught to "humble" themselves from being a Platoon Sgt, Squad Leader, Section Sgt, 1st Sgt etc, to a WOJ at the bottom of the barrel again. Nothing in the course was even remotely hard. The most difficult thing by a long shot was holding your tongue because of how ridiculous most of the activities are. What got guys in trouble the most in my class was the fact that some people just couldn't accept being treated like that. The majority of our write ups didn't come from mistakes made it came from guys literally telling the TAC Officers exactly how they felt about them and the course. It's hard to go from being a Senior NCO to being treated like a child especially when you likely have more time in service than the people who are yelling at you.
  8. Im going to go ahead and be brutally honest here but WOCS is a course designed for new members of the Army and lower enlisted. There shouldn't be a 5 week WOCS course in its current form for prior NCOs. It should be a gentleman's course for the 5 week people and the 7 week course should stay the same. I'm pretty sure every prior NCO who went through WOCS writes that on the critique. Even when speaking to the TAC officers after graduating they mostly said the same thing. Military schools are supposed to teach you something. WOCS doesn't teach a prior NCO anything they don't already know about military leadership. We know how to write memo's, we know how to lead Soldiers we don't have to play pretend "Candidate Platoon Sergeant" roles we were mostly real Platoon Sergeants before getting there. We don't need to learn how to do an FTX every single person in the 5 week class had at least one deployment under their belt. The only interesting part about WOCS was taking the history classes (that I already took because I went to college). All of which is information that can be gained by giving us a schedule and telling us to show up to class on time like college. I've taken a lot of schools in my career and I have never honestly come out of a school having literally learned nothing new. To this day the only thing I have learned from WOCS was how to fold my t shirts into nice little squares. Thats literally it. I feel as though WOCS has become more of a right of passage rather than an actual teaching school. I believe it has fallen victim to the whole "well we had to go through it so everybody should go through it". It's called the Warrant Officer Career College. It should operate like a college for prior NCOs and they can keep the basic training style setting for new Soldiers. Just my 2 cents
  9. When I was in basic we had a few prior Navy guys that got inserted into our class. They didn't do anything with us they lived downstairs in their own rooms with their ipads and cell phones and stuff. They had pretty much free roam of the base and could change into civilian clothes and leave the barracks after 1700 everyday and on the weekends. They didnt do any of the training exercises they just followed us around and watched us do everything. That was years ago though Im not sure if anything has changed or not since then.
  10. I felt bad for the people in SERE during last years winter. It actually snowed at Rucker last year and they shut the base down lol. In SERE you have to do a water crossing thing with your ruck sack. And you do it whether its June or January. I spoke to a few guys who did it in January. Ouch....Miserable. Sounds like Marine4WOFT will be in SERE around the spring time which is perfect. Don't have to worry about the killer heat index of the American deep south in the summer and won't be freezing to death in the dead of winter.
  11. Screw you all. I'm at Ft Drum, you know...that lovely base 30 miles from the freakin Canadian border. Talking about its gonna be "cold" at Rucker soon... Go take a cold shower then go stand by a fan on high. Thats how it feels to live here lol
  12. I got PDQ'd at MEPS and sent home without even being able to put up an argument. Went to the Navy and AF recruiters and talked to them and was told "If the Army failed you then you definitely won't pass our medical tests, we are more strict then the Army". Few days later while sitting in my college History class I got a call from my recruiter telling me to come see him ASAP. Somehow he got the PDQ lifted and the rest is history. I believe a lot of this waiver stuff is based on timing, who you know, and what sort of mood the medical personnel are in that day. I watched guys take the blood pressure test and fail one time and get sent packing by a medic. I watched other guys allowed to literally sit there on the machine and get their blood pressure read UNTIL they passed, even if it took 3 hours and them using multiple different machines, laying down, turning the lights off, having a nurse massage them and hold their hand etc. A lot of this stuff isn't as cut and dry as people think. SOME medics really will try to help you. Some really do seem like they hate you and are gunning for you to fail.
  13. I see so many people who try to get ahead of the game when it comes to flight school in general. I get it, everyone wants a leg up or to get a head start. But plenty of members have said this before and I will say it again. Here is the best way to get ready for WOCS: Head to Rucker early, go to Panama City Beach or Destin. Rent a hotel, and relax. It's winter time now so no beach for you, so go grab a hotel for cheap (its offseason) grab a few beers and watch TV with your feet up. BCT, WOCS, Flight school etc are all designed for you to arrive there knowing absolutely nothing at all and having done no prep work. They are schools designed to TEACH you what you need to know. If they expected you to know the WOCSOP before you got there then they would send you one once you were selected and tell you to read it before arriving. You have plenty of time to get your stencils made, stencil your stuff, learn the WOCSOP, etc. If you know NOTHING about the Army at all when you arrive at Basic then you will learn everything you need to know when you get there. Don't go start trying to read field manuals and battle drills before you arrive it's a waste of time and energy. I even met a guy who was systematically starving himself on purpose to "prepare for SERE". Relax guys you will be fine. I guarantee you that if you spend all of your time trying to prepare for these courses before you get there then you will be kicking yourself for wasting your time when you arrive and realize you could have been watching the ball game instead because you actually have time to learn what you need to know when you arrive. Just make sure you are in decent shape when you arrive so you don't start dying on the runs they do (if you get a class that likes to run a lot, some do some don't). Don't start cramming 5 and 9's, don't hunt the internet for a WOCSOP, don't ask people to help you write your letter, don't go to Home Depot and try to get stencils made, and for the love of God don't start starving yourself thinking it will give you a leg up at SERE (that was the most ridiculous one I heard). Enjoy your freedom while you can and relax. I 100% promise you that you WILL NOT be the dumbest person there when you arrive. You will certainly meet some people there who you will wonder how the hell they even passed middle school let alone made it to WOCS.
  14. Nailed it! Spot on with the Apache girl. Not beautiful in the traditional sense of what society views as pretty, exotic and looks "different" but still hot in her own way. Kinda has the "I'm sexy AND I will hurt you" look. Perfect!
  15. I used to use the trifold kneeboard but I kept getting the flaps caught on the cyclic which made for an interesting situation especially when flying at night and I couldn't figure out why my cyclic was stuck. Now I use the flip up kind but it's annoying as well because when I flip it up it gets in the way of the MPD I'm trying to use. I have yet to find a kneeboard that I like. Plus no matter how many pens I bring I always manage to lose every single one of them in the cockpit when I stick them in my kneeboard.
  16. I have a friend who went through WOCS with me who had a similar issue. Something to do with a psychological issue he had when he was younger. He graduated WOCS but hit a brick wall when trying to attend SERE. After a few weeks in limbo and going to all sorts of appointments and getting waivers and whatnot he was finally able to continue. There was also another guy who had a similar issue who was DQ'd and sent home. I'm not sure of the differences between them or if it was just luck of the draw or something but you never know until you try. Aviation gives out waivers for all sorts of things that are supposedly automatic DQ's. Not exactly sure HOW you get them or if its one of those "who you know" sort of things. But you never know until you try. When I first tried to join the Army years ago I was PDQ'd for something at MEPS on the spot and sent home with no questions asked. I am a pilot now. Don't let them just flat out tell you NO. I'm not going to sit here and say if theres a will there's ALWAYS a way, but SOMETIMES there is. So give it a shot. Good luck.
  17. Im sure its because people keep failing the PT tests. The more people fail the more they will crack down. The thing is that some people are just built differently than others. Im sure you've seen so far that there are people who just pick up information instantly and don't have to study. Other people have to study for hours every night to retain the information. Same with PT. I know people who literally didn't run for their entire time they were in flight school and passed the PT test with a 13 or 14 min 2 mile. Other people (like me) have to run multiple times a week forever just to be able to maintain a barely passing run time. Rarely does anybody fail anything but the run. People just need to recognize what type of person they are and be honest with themselves. If you know you can't run for crap then don't start trying to run 2 weeks before the PT test. Just like if you know you don't have a photographic memory then don't try to cram the night before a test. Thats what gets people in trouble on both accounts.
  18. Yeah I guess in the grand scheme of things it is for the better. For those who were prior service B Co was a godsend because it DIDN'T operate like a real company. It was pretty much a building full of people who didn't want to be there and didn't care about anything as long as you went to your next assigned class on the right day. From the little time I spent there it was pretty much a free for all with no PT no accountability no nothing. We'd call in every once and awhile and that was it. I guess when looking at it from a professional standpoint it is better that it operates more how the Army actually is. But saying that, Im glad I left right when all of this new stuff started appearing. Flight school for me was like going to college in a uniform. I actually forgot I was in the Army on some occasions because there was so little "army stuff" going on. There were times when I would get out of my car in uniform and walk a good 50m before running back to get my hat that I forgot to put on lol. Coming from being a prior NCO in the real Army I thoroughly enjoyed the relaxed atmosphere that Rucker had. For better or for worse...Too bad you guys are getting the screws tightened back down now.
  19. Here's a life hack for those going to WOCS. If you hate running or aren't very good at running then sign up to be a road guard. I know it sounds like the complete opposite of what everybody else says but trust me. They will ask that only the fastest runners be road guards. Nope, grab a spot if you are slow and make sure you coordinate it with your other road guards so you are always the one in the rear of the formation. The road guards are who fall back with the runners who fall out during runs. So no matter how slow you think you are I promise there will be somebody in your class who is a worse runner than you and will fall out all the time. And you have to fall out with them. And since you're a road guard the TAC's think you are a good runner and they leave you alone while you are back there shuffling along with the slow people. Thats what I did and it was perfect. I am a horrible runner and always have been (Im short and bulky from powerlifting im the guy who always gets 270 on the PT test because I crush the pushups and situps and always almost die after the run). I did all of the WOCS runs shuffling along in the back with the people who fell out. Make it look legit by running backwards a bit and encouraging them. It always went the same way when people would fall behind. Id shout "I got them Sir!" and run back there with them. "Alright good, you stay with them road guard meet us back at the barracks you know the route" "Yes Sir!". (Meanwhile Im back there dying and sucking wind just as bad as they are but since I was a road guard nobody knew I was a bad runner LOL).
  20. You guys are there in a bad time. Well I guess its all relative since you don't know what it was like before. B Co didn't used to be so lame but since people kept taking advantage of the system they had to change things. When I had first gotten to Rucker B Co was awesome. You could take leave, pass, anything and nobody cared. If you wanted to hang around then you were pretty much on pass anyway because they never bothered you. Roll call involved calling up there every few days to let them know you were alive. As long as you were at your class when it started they didn't bother you. But like I said people started to screw it up so they started cracking down. By the time I left everybody in the bubbles were doing PT every morning and there was talk from the new CG about even making people in flight school do PT. Fundet was doing PT which never happened when I was there. We'd show up at like 0800 and be home by 0830 in fundet. SERE guys were doing PT up until the Friday before class started. I guess doing PT while in the bubbles at B Co isn't a bad thing. Its just not something we ever did. But doing PT in flight school itself would be horrible. Are they actually making you guys do that now? Anybody know?
  21. Um...have you forgotten the only thing that actually matters in the world...? Enterprise finally approved draft beer a few months ago!
  22. You goto Bravo Company and likely become part of the funeral detail where you get to drive around to some place in the Southeast US a few times a week and perform a funeral for a Soldier (retired or prior service most of the time not usually KIA in combat). It's not that bad of a gig most people hate it though because of the random schedule. I personally didn't mind it. If the place you're going is far enough away then the Army pays for your hotel and gives you a ridiculous amount of money for food. We literally went to a restaurant and had steak and lobster for dinner during the times I went on a funeral. They provide a car for you as well. The funerals themselves last all of about 20 mins so you have plenty of time to just hang out. There are a bunch of you on funeral detail at any given time so when its not your turn to go out and do a funeral then you pretty much just go to work to practice for like an hour then go home for the rest of the day. You can try to take leave or pass or something during the bubble but when I was there B Co said no because everybody kept trying to put in leave so they didn't have to do any details. Not sure if things have changed or not since.
  23. i agree with the above posters. In all reality flight school is pretty much designed for you to go there knowing pretty much nothing. Don't spend weeks before getting to WOCS trying to read the WOCSOP or anything you will have time to learn that while you are there. Same with 5&9s. I'm not saying don't take a look at them to get an idea of what they are but don't worry about it too much. Without knowing what you are looking at you won't understand it anyway so it makes it that much harder to just learn random numbers without being able to understand and apply it. When you get to rucker you will have WOCS, BOLC, and SERE to keep you busy before you are able to fly anything. Trying to get "ahead" will likely overload most people. Get to WOCS and pass it. Get to BOLC and pass it, get to SERE and pass it then start worrying about cramming 5&9. A friend of mine whose still down at Rucker said that the bubbles have come back as well so you will likely have some gaps between classes to recuperate and prepare for the next one. When I went through we had no bubbles at all until advanced airframe. It was a straight shot from WOCS all the way through BWS and it sucked. Flight school is designed for the normal person to get through. It takes a lot of studying but it's mostly rope memorization rather than actually figuring out problems. While you are there you will see what I mean. You'll likely run into "that guy" and wonder how the hell he managed to even get to flight school let alone pass anything. Then you'll realize why. Go on a vacation and relax. Worry about flight school when you get there. Thats how you prepare for Rucker.
  24. Yeah Oscars sucks pretty bad. It's just funny because the new guys don't realize that EVERYBODY here is a pilot so trying to use the "hey Im a pilot" thing doesn't work here. Nobody here thinks you're "cool". . You can literally sit in at a table in there are enjoy your entire night just watching people try and impress women. One time I literally heard some kid telling this girl about how he got his leg broken in SERE (no they don't do that to you) but he bandaged it up with a stick and vines and finished because "only (kitty cats) quit". I'm just like wow really guy... Oh and apparently students now fly by themselves all alone in Primary and during one of his "combat approaches" the engine blew up and a kid had to wrestle it down to the ground and was given an air medal by the commander for heroism lol Oh Oscars...the greatest source of entertainment during flight school.
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