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Just in case anyone was wondering, haha NOT, I have not flown yet. I paid half of my tuition up front to keep myself motivated and not get lazy like I did with my PPL SEL. Anyways, the weather is not so great here in the Carolinas and was gusting 17knots when I was supposed to take my first flight on Sat. So we have rescheduled it for this coming Sat. and after that I will be doing 3 to 4 lesson a week beginning next week when my kid starts school.

Anyone know what my requirements are for a helicopter add-on? I am doing 141 instruction and it shows I have 35 hours of ground and 40hrs of flight time. Does that sound right? Thanks, John L The Fly-N-Pig

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Just in case anyone was wondering, haha NOT, I have not flown yet. I paid half of my tuition up front to keep myself motivated and not get lazy like I did with my PPL SEL. Anyways, the weather is not so great here in the Carolinas and was gusting 17knots when I was supposed to take my first flight on Sat. So we have rescheduled it for this coming Sat. and after that I will be doing 3 to 4 lesson a week beginning next week when my kid starts school.

Anyone know what my requirements are for a helicopter add-on? I am doing 141 instruction and it shows I have 35 hours of ground and 40hrs of flight time. Does that sound right? Thanks, John L The Fly-N-Pig

Helicopter add-on only requires 20 hours minimum. The ground is enough to learn the helicopter systems. You have the other requirments pretty much covered on your SEL fixed wing, weather, navigation, etc.

Have fun.

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Who are you flying with? I am in Charlotte. I am a CFI and own a Hughes 500. Based at Monroe.

 

It is always good to meet another helo pilot.

 

It says you work for CMPD. Do you know Craig V?

 

Justin

 

Yea, I know Craig. He works at Helivision where I am training and with me at CMPD. I love the sleek look of the Hughes 500. I am gonna shoot you a PM with my info to get in touch and maybe you can take me for a ride. I take care of the cost! :D

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Helicopter add-on only requires 20 hours minimum. The ground is enough to learn the helicopter systems. You have the other requirments pretty much covered on your SEL fixed wing, weather, navigation, etc.

Have fun.

 

Really, that's the first I have heard of the 20hr minimum. Even being Part 141 it's only 20hrs minimum? I know will take me more than 20hrs but how does that include dual and solo/cross country time?

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Really, that's the first I have heard of the 20hr minimum. Even being Part 141 it's only 20hrs minimum? I know will take me more than 20hrs but how does that include dual and solo/cross country time?

 

Refer to 14 CFR § 61.63 (B) for the requirements for a additional category rating. Then refer to 14 CFR § 61.109 © for the aeronautical experience requirements for a PPL helicopter. The absolute minimum hours for the add-on rating is 19. However, it will most likely take you more than that. I break down the 19 hours as follows: 3 dual XC, 3 dual night, 3 dual checkride prep, and 10 solo. In that absolute minimum time, when would you learn to hover, and when would you be able to get to PTS before your checkride? I would add at least another 10 hours for those things.

 

Another thing... 14 CFR Part 61, Subpart C, "Student Pilots", does not apply to you. (I'm assuming you are already a private pilot.) That means no Student Pilot Certificate, no XC flight planning endorsements, etc. required.

 

For a Part 141, the minimum for an add-on rating is 25 hours: 20 dual and 5 solo. However, that is the FAR minimum. The course at Helivision could be approved by the FAA with more hours. For these regulations, refer to Part 141, Appendix I and Appendix B, Sections 4 and 5.

 

~Jeff

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Refer to 14 CFR § 61.63 (B) for the requirements for a additional category rating. Then refer to 14 CFR § 61.109 © for the aeronautical experience requirements for a PPL helicopter. The absolute minimum hours for the add-on rating is 19. However, it will most likely take you more than that. I break down the 19 hours as follows: 3 dual XC, 3 dual night, 3 dual checkride prep, and 10 solo. In that absolute minimum time, when would you learn to hover, and when would you be able to get to PTS before your checkride? I would add at least another 10 hours for those things.

 

Another thing... 14 CFR Part 61, Subpart C, "Student Pilots", does not apply to you. (I'm assuming you are already a private pilot.) That means no Student Pilot Certificate, no XC flight planning endorsements, etc. required.

 

For a Part 141, the minimum for an add-on rating is 25 hours: 20 dual and 5 solo. However, that is the FAR minimum. The course at Helivision could be approved by the FAA with more hours. For these regulations, refer to Part 141, Appendix I and Appendix B, Sections 4 and 5.

 

~Jeff

 

Thanks, Jeff. That was a great reply and much appreciated. They are actually a "pending" 141 school at this time.

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Refer to 14 CFR § 61.63 (B) for the requirements for a additional category rating. Then refer to 14 CFR § 61.109 © for the aeronautical experience requirements for a PPL helicopter. The absolute minimum hours for the add-on rating is 19. However, it will most likely take you more than that. I break down the 19 hours as follows: 3 dual XC, 3 dual night, 3 dual checkride prep, and 10 solo. In that absolute minimum time, when would you learn to hover, and when would you be able to get to PTS before your checkride? I would add at least another 10 hours for those things.

 

Another thing... 14 CFR Part 61, Subpart C, "Student Pilots", does not apply to you. (I'm assuming you are already a private pilot.) That means no Student Pilot Certificate, no XC flight planning endorsements, etc. required.

 

For a Part 141, the minimum for an add-on rating is 25 hours: 20 dual and 5 solo. However, that is the FAR minimum. The course at Helivision could be approved by the FAA with more hours. For these regulations, refer to Part 141, Appendix I and Appendix B, Sections 4 and 5.

 

~Jeff

A nice, succinct, thorough and informed reply. If you're a instructor, you're students are lucky.

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A nice, succinct, thorough and informed reply. If you're a instructor, you're students are lucky.

 

I agree with helonorth, but sorry, I have to take exception to how Jeff is reading the FARs and here's why:

 

61.109c states "...must log at least 40 hours of flight time that includes at least 20 hours of flight training from an authorized instructor and 10 hours of solo flight training in the areas of operation listed in §61.107(B)(3) of this part..."

AND

61.107(B)(3) (pertaining to areas of operation that the training must cover) states

"(3) For a rotorcraft category rating with a helicopter class rating:

(i) Preflight preparation;

(ii) Preflight procedures;

(iii) Airport and heliport operations;

(iv) Hovering maneuvers;

(v) Takeoffs, landings, and go-arounds;

(vi) Performance maneuvers;

(vii) Navigation;

(viii) Emergency operations;

(ix) Night operations, except as provided in §61.110 of this part; and

(x) Postflight procedures.

 

Now sure, anybody with a fixed-wing PPL should have the 40 hours of flight time BUT you still need 20 hours of dual instruction on the 10 areas of HELICOPTER operations as noted by 61.107(B)(3), which must include the 9 hours of dual (3 XC, 3 night, and 3 test prep) that Jeff enumerated. So reading it that way the bare minimum hours for an add-on is 30; 20 dual and 10 solo in helicopters.

 

Granted, it could be argued that some areas of operation are common for both fixed wing and rotorcraft, (like navigation, for instance) and indeed, there are areas in the Practical Test Standards that are specifically excluded for add-on candidates (i.e. documents, weather, ATC communications, navigation, etc.). But how can you sort out (with a straight face, as the saying goes) what part of your previously logged dual training fulfills the requirements of 61.107(B)(3), keeping in mind that you'll need at least 11 hours of dual that qualifies as applicable helicopters? Did you really have 11 hours of dual exclusively on preflight preparation and navigation? For all practical purposes, you need 20 hours of dual in a helicopter, or at least that's the way it's interpreted at Rotors.

 

But listen, at the end of the day, it's not what I think the rule says, or what Jeff thinks it says that counts, you know. It's what the Designated Pilot Examiner and your local FSDO think the rule says that counts and alas, that can change from one office to another. Your flight school should have a pretty good idea what the local officals' mindset is, so that's a good place to go and ask. I would highly suggest however, that you carefully read the pertinent parts of FAR 61 first so you have some idea for yourself what the "gospel" says - even CFIs and school administrators have occasionally been confused by the FARs. :)

 

BTW- under part 61, there is no ground instruction required and you don't have to take a written exam. I don't know if a 141 approved school can train a student to part 61 requirements rather than to their 141 standards, but usually part 61 is more stringent, at least as far as total time required is concerned. Anybody know about this?

Edited by helicodger pilot
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I agree with helonorth, but sorry, I have to take exception to how Jeff is reading the FARs and here's why:

 

Codger,

 

I know what you're saying. We had this same discussion on a different thread, but about the Commercial Pilot requirements. Both sides presented good arguments. I've come to the conclusion that unfortunately, this is an area of the FAR's that is unclear. Like you mentioned, it is up to local interpretation. It would be nice if the FAA would change the wording of the regulation to add the words, "including previous training" or "not including previous training" or something along those lines.

 

~Jeff

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Here's what my school says

 

In the document I will leave for you and ***** to view it states the following in Appendix I.

 

 

 

20 hours dual instruction. Solo time is not required. But then explains why, because you have already met the solo requirements and must still meet any requirements necessary. I believe this is in reference to having an airplane sel rating and adding a mel rating. You have not met the solo requirements yet for a rotorcraft. So you must still get an additional 10 hours of solo time. This brings the total necessary hours to 30.

 

 

You can look over the document as I stated. It is from the FAA and is meant to better explain the time requirements for certification. The above is how I understood the FAR and why I told you 30 hours.

Edited by flynpig
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Ain't it the truth, cousin! Why is it that government officials, lawyers, and politicians all seem to belong to the International Brotherhood of Obfuscution? :D

 

Oh yeah, and those guys who write NOTAMS, too! :lol:

 

I understand the coding of METAR's, TAF's, NOTAMS, etc. back in the teletype days, but c'mon already. It's the computer age. A few extra letters won't hurt anything. :mellow:

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Just finished my PPl Checkride today. I was an add-on also. The requirement is 10 hrs. solo, 20 hours dual. To get you all polished up for your checkride....40 hours is pretty darn close for your planning. Mine was about 10 hours solo and 30 hours dual. Mind you that all depends upon how quickly you become competent. I was a bit brain dead so took a little more than expected.

 

You will really enjoy it. Good luck as there are many on this forum that give a lot of support!

 

Cheers

 

Rotorrodent

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Just finished my PPl Checkride today. I was an add-on also. The requirement is 10 hrs. solo, 20 hours dual. To get you all polished up for your checkride....40 hours is pretty darn close for your planning. Mine was about 10 hours solo and 30 hours dual. Mind you that all depends upon how quickly you become competent. I was a bit brain dead so took a little more than expected.

 

You will really enjoy it. Good luck as there are many on this forum that give a lot of support!

 

Cheers

 

Rotorrodent

 

First of all, congrats on passing the checkride. And second, thanks for the info......

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