Question FOR Employers

[CFIAP5544]

1.) WHAT IS THE SECRET TO GETTING HIRED?

 

Statistics:

 

Resumes sent - 47 approx.

 

Calls made to follow up - 200 approx.

 

Resumes delivered in Person - 15 (Dressed appropriately - Clean Cut, Professional Clothes)

 

Offers for employement - 0

 

2.) What are you looking for in a pilot? (other than the obvious 10,000 hours, longline and turbine time)

 

I NEVER had a problem getting hired in person or over the internet when I was fresh out of school! I NEVER had a problem getting hired outside of aviation either! Normally more experience makes it easier to get hired!

 

 

Profile:

 

1400 - hours

Tour Experience - 100 hours

Business Owner

Mechanic

Age - 30

Long work history with great refereneces!

Handed in letter of recomendation with %15 of the resumes

 

(3.) Is listing "Business Owner" on my resume an issue for employers? (When I hire people who own or owned businesses I think it shows determination and intelligence)

 

(4.) Is being clean cut and professional No Longer Desirable?

 

(5.) Would you rather get E-Mail than phone calls?

 

(6.) Do you take into consideration most don't have time or money to drive across the U.S. to turn in resumes?

 

I deffinately prefer being on the hiring side of a business but I would still like to know WHY nobody wanted to hire based on the profile or previous work history! I would have been more than happy to fly turbine helicopters for the next 5 to 10 years.

Edited September 17, 2008 by CFIAP5544

[e36_m3_turbo]

1.) WHAT IS THE SECRET TO GETTING HIRED?

 

Statistics:

 

Resumes sent - 47 approx.

 

Calls made to follow up - 200 approx.

 

Resumes delivered in Person - 15 (Dressed appropriately - Clean Cut, Professional Clothes)

 

Offers for employement - 0

 

2.) What are you looking for in a pilot? (other than the obvious 10,000 hours, longline and turbine time)

 

I NEVER had a problem getting hired in person or over the internet when I was fresh out of school! I NEVER had a problem getting hired outside of aviation either! Normally more experience makes it easier to get hired!

 

 

Profile:

 

1400 - hours

Tour Experience - 100 hours

Business Owner

Mechanic

Age - 30

Long work history with great refereneces!

Handed in letter of recomendation with %15 of the resumes

 

(3.) Is listing "Business Owner" on my resume an issue for employers? (When I hire people who own or owned businesses I think it shows determination and intelligence)

 

(4.) Is being clean cut and professional No Longer Desirable?

 

(5.) Would you rather get E-Mail than phone calls?

 

(6.) Do you take into consideration most don't have time or money to drive across the U.S. to turn in resumes?

 

I deffinately prefer being on the hiring side of a business but I would still like to know WHY nobody wanted to hire based on the profile or previous work history! I would have been more than happy to fly turbine helicopters for the next 5 to 10 years.

Im not in the aviation field yet at all. But i would recommend bugging them over and over atleast once a week. If you dont show them that your interested in working for them you just another app in garbage file.

[rotormandan]

Does your resume say Silver State Helicopters on it?

[CFIAP5544]

Does your resume say Silver State Helicopters on it?

 

No my resume does not say Silver State Helicopters. It has a school with a great rep on it.

 

Also I recieved a few messages from people indicating potential work in the field and an offer to re-do my resume for $250. Thanks but No Thanks.

 

I am no longer interested in being a full time employee (5/2). My business is taking off and I have just decided to purchase a helicopter in the middle of 2009 and just build my own helicopter company!

 

I just wanted to know what the deal with not getting hired was, even though I was qualified and followed up and never had an issue being hired before. Strange!

 

Thanks for the help though.

Edited September 19, 2008 by CFIAP5544

[rodrop]

It's not always easy to get a job. I would not get discouraged...sounds like you have a nice plan and possibly a better future owning your own company anyway...BUT...to just give some of these companies the benefit of the doubt..can I pose a couple thoughts?

1. Did you apply to companies asking for pilots or did you send your resume to random companies? The obvious, if you sent your resume to a company that is not looking for employees...then that might be a good reason why you did not receive an opportunity to interview.

2. Although you may think your resume/skills are up there in qualifications...maybe other people applied and were also highly qualified or more so..

3. I do not work in the aviation industry but the one thing I have noticed from taking flying lessons (at least where I am taking lessons)..networking has a lot to do with it and if you know someone, that always helps. I have also noticed that turnover is high and often so there will be openings quite often.

4. Final question... with the hours you have, what pilot jobs are you applying for? Maybe if you are applying for CFI, some may think you have too many hours and go for the lower hour pilots to ensure at least a few months out of them??

 

Unfortunately, every time you are not offered a job or turned down... could be a different reason from a different employer. I am sure nobody means to hurt anyone's feelings or overlook good talent, but decisions have to be made and people make them..just not always in our favor (the future employee)

keep trying and good luck with your company

[HelliBoy]

Before any student gives up hope completely because they dont think they'll be able to get a job- please let us know how long you waited before deciding you no longer were seeking employment...your posts were less than 24 hours apart.

 

We're in a fairly specialized field and even if you pass out 50 resumes you can expect to wait up to 6 months to get a reasonable job offer. The turnover rate for the job you were trying to transition to (non-tour, non GOM i assume) doesnt have a high turnover rate like instructing or GOM companies do.

 

Good luck with the company--its what I did and its alot better than being 'just a pilot'

 

EDIT: FYI there is a helicopter carrer forum and job fair in Las Vegas Oct 27 (i think), the proprieter of this forum is one of the speakers...go to www.Rotor.com for the details.

Edited September 18, 2008 by HelliBoy

[CFIAP5544]

Don't get me wrong, I have no intention of of making it sound like students will not get a job. I was actually hoping that my post would HELP by allowing employers to post what they want to see in an employee that will HELP them get a job.

 

I wish the best for all job seekers! If all goes well I can't wait to provide jobs for pilots in the industry!

 

My advice to job seekers from my experience is to get as many ratings as possible Especially INSTRUMENT RATING!!! I know that was deffinately the biggest factor in not getting hired in the Gulf, But I am still curious as to why I wasn't accepted for other positions. A mystery that may never be answered.

 

UPDATE: As far as employment goes according to my last post I made a bit of a mistake, I will still seek 14/14 employment so I may apply that experience towards my business, I am just not looking for (5/2) employment because that would interfere with my business at the moment.

 

 

Good Luck to all Job Seekers!

Edited September 19, 2008 by CFIAP5544

[Fidelis]

My 2 cents comes from the prospective of a supervisor and applicant. I am currently the chief flight instructor of a small flight school. I am also at the point where I am looking to move on to bigger and better things.

 

I have had the opportunity to review many, many resumes. If it does not say "CFII" on it, it goes into the circular file. This is true even though until a couple of weeks ago I did not have my own instrument rating.

 

While I have a steady position right now I did not even consider sending out my resume until I not only got my instrument ticket, but my CFII as well (I did both in the same day).

 

The simple fact is that if you don't have your instrument ticket the other guy applying already has a leg up on you, regardless of your background. I understand completely that there are pilots in the industry who have been quite successful without the instrument ticket. I think that now, more than ever, that is the exception rather than the rule though.... even for companies that traditionally may have taken you without it.

[API1983]

I could ask that same question but from the employer's side. What do we have to do to find and hire a pilot? Other than throw money at them?

 

There are many helicopter operators out here that are not PHI, AirEvac or similar and we simply cannot afford to compete with the PHIs on salary but we have lots of work. We often have to turn work down simply because of a pilot shortage.

 

We are the small business operators that service local/regional utility companies, the tv stations, the charter customers, the pipeline companies and any other customers we can. We have on average <10 helicopters. We do what we have to do, WHEN we have to do it. Our work varies by the day, and often by the hour. The owners very often are doing the same work that we are asking pilots to do, and more. We work nights, weekends, holidays, our children's birthdays, we are on call 24/7. We sweep the hangar floor, we do the books ourselves, we turn wrenches, we scrub the toilets. Why? Not because we love working that much but because to pay someone to do them costs money. And those little things add up. Everything affects the bottom line.

 

From an employer's perspective we consider pilots to be an investment. So with anyone that we consider putting in our aircraft we have to ask ourselves:

 

What kind of return will we get on our investment in you?

Will this person be an asset or a liability?

What are you, the pilot going to bring to the table?

How are you going to increase our bottom line?

How are you going to make the business owners job/life easier or better?

Are you someone that is going to put the training and experience on the resume' and move on to another position in a year or two?

 

Hard questions.

 

But that is what we are up against.

 

We're also up against some cold hard numbers. (I'm using our '07 data)

 

Fleet liability insurance premium - >$95,000/year -avg. out per pilot $15,000

Average cost to send prospective pilot to Bell training (required by insurance) $20,000

Compensation package (health insurance, 401k, bonus, etc.) $10,000-$12,000/year

 

So right off the bat, before we can even think about putting a pilot to work, we are out about $35,000. We are even willing to give a potential employee a percentage of the profits. We are happy and willing to make the investment, IF the pilot is going to stick around long term. We are taking a risk on an unknown quantity.

 

Pilots that we have interviewed have asked for a starting salary nearly as much as our liability premium, TO START! And then told us it was non-negotiable. Never mind that our offer + commission was the same as his starting but he would actually have to work for it by also making sales calls.

 

So I ask you? Other than money, and apparently lots of it, what makes a company attractive to an employee? What makes a pilot want to hire on with a company for the long term?

[FauxZ]

Since this just seems like a rant thread, I'll have at it as I've been a bit frustrated. Here are my OPINIONS.

 

I've never been on the hiring side, though I do appreciate the problems associated with running a small business (my mother has been self employed for decades.) If you want fancy benefits, the ability to be backed up at any time by any pilot, set and predictable schedules, and the flexibility to negotiate for the pay you want, you need to go with a large company. Expect to be treated as a number and have little to no information on the company as a whole, besides fliers and memos.

 

On the other side of that coin, the small business should be able to provide more flexible management with slightly more freedom to self manage. Most importantly, make your employee feel like part of the company. Generally people stay with a small company for less pay because they feel they are making a difference and will be rewarded. I've always thought profit sharing was an excellent idea that doesn't seem to be used often, not that I don't understand the complications the programs can bring. Maintenance and training should never suffer, and if you can't pay competitively, give an honest answer as to why, and how a pilot may improve their pay. If you want someone to help you grow your business, then you need to make part of it their business too.

 

Of course there are always bad apples who will take advantage of a company regardless of their size, such is life. This is why references are so important. There are also times when a situation truly doesn't work out and a pilot is forced to move on for the sake of their career or family. No matter how sincere you are, its just like breaking up with a girlfriend/boyfriend, someone is going to feel they got hurt or cheated or taken advantage of. Just be honest, direct, and eventually after the emotions clear, most people will understand.

 

Ok, that's been my deep thoughts for the day. Now someone hire me so I don't have the time to stew over this type of stuff.

 

PS: One last rant. For the love of Pete, return messages promptly. Even just a "I received your email and will review it at the end of the week" or similar. It takes less than a minute!! Even a reply of "no" is better than nothing.

[captkirkyota]

>>>>>PS: One last rant. For the love of Pete, return messages promptly. Even just a "I received your email and will review it at the end of the week" or similar. It takes less than a minute!! Even a reply of "no" is better than nothing.

 

X 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000!!!!!!!!!!!

[BillyBob]

I could ask that same question but from the employer's side. What do we have to do to find and hire a pilot? Other than throw money at them?

 

 

 

So I ask you? Other than money, and apparently lots of it, what makes a company attractive to an employee? What makes a pilot want to hire on with a company for the long term?

 

 

 

For me.... Bottom line...TRUST.

 

But it has to earned on both sides. For me it gets harder the older I get.

 

I would have taken a lower salary if I had a belief that the organization offered me stability and that I felt like the company was another part of my family. Kinda like the Southwest Airlines corporate culture.

 

Oh yeah, SAFETY.

I have walked away from two possible jobs at smaller operators because little things tripped my 'red flags'. Both boiled down to the HMFIC not resourcing things properly because there was no immediate and tangible cost benefit to it. Little things like the owner letting (or telling?) maintenance personnel push PC Links to absolute max of the limits. Yeah I know parts cost money but sometimes it's better to be proactive with parts that are more than 75% of their limits. My experience has been that a PC link going bad 'speeds up' its decline after a certain amount of 'play'. When these things are corrected sooner or later it shows that the company is committed to 'Doing it right'. Discipline (like trust) goes both ways.

 

It sounds like you are the hiring guy I wish I found when I was looking for a job for the last two years. With my luck your company is time zones away from where I want to be.

[API1983]

We are in an area where PHI and AirEvac recruit so it is difficult. We absolutely will not compromise on safety or the quality/training of our pilots. What we have is the quality of our operation and the all-for-one-one-for-all atmosphere. But too often pilots are lured by the dollars.

[CFIAP5544]

Good information from both sides.

 

I have worked for a small operator in the past. Deffinately experienced both sides of the coin.

 

Flight training was EXPENSIVE and it would suck to throw it away over a small business being to LAZY to delay a PLEASURE CHARTER over a $1000 worth of parts and SIGNING OFF THE ANNUAL INSPECTION!

 

Woopadee Do! Fix IT and SIGN IT OFF!!!!!

 

On the other side of the coin I HATED INEXPERIENCED INSTRUCTORS and STUDENTS telling me what was and wasn't airworthy with no basis for argument!

 

The MANUAL DEFINES LIMITS! If it is within the limits its probably OK! If it TRULY is UNSAFE I WILL TELL YOU!!

 

IS THERE A MECHANIC OUT THERE THAT WANTS TO KNOWINGLY ENDANGER SOMONE???

 

REMEMBER NOW THEY ARE THROWING YOUR A$$ IN JAIL FOR MISTAKES!! PILOTS & MECHANICS!

 

WHO WANTS THAT????

Edited September 28, 2008 by CFIAP5544

[BillyBob]

Good information from both sides.

 

I have worked for a small operator in the past. Deffinately experienced both sides of the coin.

 

Flight training was EXPENSIVE and it would suck to throw it away over a small business being to LAZY to delay a PLEASURE CHARTER over a $1000 worth of parts and SIGNING OFF THE ANNUAL INSPECTION!

 

Woopadee Do! Fix IT and SIGN IT OFF!!!!!

 

On the other side of the coin I HATED INEXPERIENCED INSTRUCTORS and STUDENTS telling me what was and wasn't airworthy with no basis for argument!

 

The MANUAL DEFINES LIMITS! If it is within the limits its probably OK! If it TRULY is UNSAFE I WILL TELL YOU!!

 

IS THERE A MECHANIC OUT THERE THAT WANTS TO KNOWINGLY ENDANGER SOMONE???

 

REMEMBER NOW THEY ARE THROWING YOUR A$$ IN JAIL FOR MISTAKES!! PILOTS & MECHANICS!

 

WHO WANTS THAT????

 

Please understand the particular PC link was on that bird for a while!

I totally understand 'making it to the next 100' etc. There was more to it than just a PC link with 5 thousands play. This particular issue confirmed other stories/impressions.

 

I'm not inexperienced either.

Edited September 28, 2008 by BillyBob

[CFIAP5544]

I deffinately understand. P/C links in my opinion SHOULD NOT be run to absolute limits. Better to be safe than sorry in my opinion. But thats my opinion.

 

I was just reffering to some of the experiences I had at my flight school.

 

Example: Student Said - I don't wanna fly with that little crack in the muffler SHROUD (on R22). (key word SHROUD)

 

A muffler SHROUD only provides a method of heating the cabin. On this particular day it was 105 degrees. The crack was only .50". Not an excuse to NOT FLY and loose money!

 

For the most part most of the students respected the opinion of the mechanics. It was just a select few that were ABOVE the mechanics in their mind.

 

Mechanics - Know exactly the type I am talking about.

[BillyBob]

I deffinately understand. P/C links in my opinion SHOULD NOT be run to absolute limits. Better to be safe than sorry in my opinion. But thats my opinion.

 

I was just reffering to some of the experiences I had at my flight school.

 

Example: Student Said - I don't wanna fly with that little crack in the muffler SHROUD (on R22). (key word SHROUD)

 

A muffler SHROUD only provides a method of heating the cabin. On this particular day it was 105 degrees. The crack was only .50". Not an excuse to NOT FLY and loose money!

 

For the most part most of the students respected the opinion of the mechanics. It was just a select few that were ABOVE the mechanics in their mind.

 

Mechanics - Know exactly the type I am talking about.

 

Those types grow up to be what we call "Seagulls".

 

They just sit around and squawk all day and won't fly until you throw a rock at them.

[CFIAP5544]

"SeaGulls"

 

That is the funniest thing I have ever heard!