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Dose any one know how many Registered


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Any of you know where I could find the statistics of Airworthy, Registered aircraft... How about how many were built total, and how many are still flying today? I am interested in primarily the R-22 vs. 300 statistics.

 

I saw this website and it got me thinking.

 

http://www.griffin-helicopters.co.uk/accidentstats.asp

 

The 300 has been around longer (16 years longer in production (don’t know if that is a fact)?), more accidents total. R-22 has more accidents per year thou...

Last year 66 R-22's were involved in an accident... only 18 300's. (If the website is correct)

1997 was the only year after 1986 were more 300's crashed than R-22's.

 

How many of each are still flying around today. I am guessing somewhere around 4,000 each but have nothing to back it up.. Looking for a link to a site where I can find that info.

Statically, if I want to see the day were I fly a larger safer ship... I will stick with flying the 300. Unless someone shows me where there are twice as many robbinsons out there than 300's. Which would explains the fact r-22's account for double the amount of accidents (some years much more than double) than 300's each year.

 

There are a lot more R-22 guys who have taken a factory safety course than a 300 course (if there even is a 300 course). And still more accidents per year.... why?

 

ahh.. What about total hours flown per year... R-22 vs. the 300? That would be nice to see too.

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The 300 (a re-badged 269) was first built in 55, flown in 56. Production started in 60, as I recall. Whatever incident statistics you drum up might be a bit skewed given its history as a trainer for the Army (U.S. and other).

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The 300 (a re-badged 269) was first built in 55, flown in 56. Production started in 60, as I recall. Whatever incident statistics you drum up might be a bit skewed given its history as a trainer for the Army (U.S. and other).

 

OK that accident statistic site says it is a H269... and looks like they have 300 (H269) statistics starting in 1964. (R-22 in 1980?) I am guessing these are civilian statistics seeing that the UH1 has a total of only 134 accidents 1963-2008??? The site gives the NTSB links....I will look in to the earlier years...

 

I guess this leads me to rephrase my original question to civilly register.

Edited by Helihead
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4300 R22's built since 1980, only 3 are airworthy and I own one of em.

 

 

 

Ok, Just kidding. Rough numbers there are about 4300 R22's built. How many are still airworthy is anyone's bet. However, each year Frank builds about 150 R22's,...at his peak, I think he was building almost 500 a year. The R22 production is way down, because they build so many R44's each year (664 of them in 2007 alone)

 

Schweizer however has built only 900 total helicopters in their lifetime !!! (Jan 2005 numbers). That number includes the 269, 300, 300cbi, 333, unmanned aerial military ship, SA2, everything !

 

So, assuming every ship ever built is still airworthy, you could compare 4300 R22's with about 700-800 model 269/300/300CBI....about 5-6 times more Robbies in the air.

 

BTW, Enstrom builds somewhere between 10-25 total aircraft each year...not a lot.

 

In 2005, Robinson sold 127 R-22’s compared with the Schweizer 300c, which sold 8.

 

Also, a lot of those 300's are (were) in use as military trainers. I think its safe to say that a military CFI, and a military student are probably a lot better trained and more experienced than the traditional civilian CFI and civilian student pilot.

 

Now what about hours flown?? Just an educated guess, but since more schools use the 22, I bet there are an even greater number of hours typically flown per aircraft, per year.

 

Now, on a perfect sunny day, which ship I would I take?? The R22 for its speed and lower cost.

 

Lil windy, turbulent or wanna take a friend that weighs more than 90 pounds...I' take a 300.

 

Goldy

 

(edit- added the 2005 note for the 300c)

Edited by Goldy
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Goldy, with stats like that it is a sure bet the R-22 flies more hours a year than the 300. This is what everyone needs to really look at if the are comparing accident rates. Mission flown and total hours flown then compare that with the different aircraft.

 

When someone says the R-22's crash more they are right. However, there are 4 times more R-22's than 300's so it makes sense.

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Schweizer however has built only 900 total helicopters in their lifetime !!! (Jan 2005 numbers). That number includes the 269, 300, 300cbi, 333, unmanned aerial military ship, SA2, everything !

 

So, assuming every ship ever built is still airworthy, you could compare 4300 R22's with about 700-800 model 269/300/300CBI....about 5-6 times more Robbies in the air.

 

 

Ha.. you did make me laugh saying that of the 43oo R-22's onlt 3 are airworthy...

 

The other thing that made me laugh was you said only 900 Schweizers were built... how can this be when 1,535 accidents were reported in them... ??????

 

I will believe 2900 total built.. but not 900, sorry... Not trying to make anyone look bad here, I want to know if there is a record of how many were built, and still airworthy of both ships. AS WELL as total number of hours flown per year... vs. total accidents.

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4300 R22's built since 1980, only 3 are airworthy and I own one of em.

 

 

 

Ok, Just kidding. Rough numbers there are about 4300 R22's built. How many are still airworthy is anyone's bet. However, each year Frank builds about 150 R22's,...at his peak, I think he was building almost 500 a year. The R22 production is way down, because they build so many R44's each year (664 of them in 2007 alone)

 

Schweizer however has built only 900 total helicopters in their lifetime !!! (Jan 2005 numbers). That number includes the 269, 300, 300cbi, 333, unmanned aerial military ship, SA2, everything !

 

So, assuming every ship ever built is still airworthy, you could compare 4300 R22's with about 700-800 model 269/300/300CBI....about 5-6 times more Robbies in the air.

 

BTW, Enstrom builds somewhere between 10-25 total aircraft each year...not a lot.

In 2005, Robinson sold 127 R-22’s compared with the Schweizer 300c, which sold 8.

 

Also, a lot of those 300's are (were) in use as military trainers. I think its safe to say that a military CFI, and a military student are probably a lot better trained and more experienced than the traditional civilian CFI and civilian student pilot.

 

Now what about hours flown?? Just an educated guess, but since more schools use the 22, I bet there are an even greater number of hours typically flown per aircraft, per year.

 

Now, on a perfect sunny day, which ship I would I take?? The R22 for its speed and lower cost.

 

Lil windy, turbulent or wanna take a friend that weighs more than 90 pounds...I' take a 300.

 

Goldy

 

(edit- added the 2005 note for the 300c)

 

 

Do those Schweizer numbers include Hughes built 269/300's?

 

Personally, I would take a 300Cbi over any Robbie built helicopter.

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Ha.. you did make me laugh saying that of the 43oo R-22's onlt 3 are airworthy...

 

The other thing that made me laugh was you said only 900 Schweizers were built... how can this be when 1,535 accidents were reported in them... ??????

 

I will believe 2900 total built.. but not 900, sorry... Not trying to make anyone look bad here, I want to know if there is a record of how many were built, and still airworthy of both ships. AS WELL as total number of hours flown per year... vs. total accidents.

 

 

Maybe they like to keep crashing the same ships over and over again?

 

OR maybe Sikorsky doesnt really know how many ships Schweizer has built ??

 

Check out the press release when Sikorsky bought them..scroll to the bottom..it says 900, not 2900.

 

I just give you the facts that I find....I wasnt there when each one of em rolled off the line.

 

http://www.sacusa.com/Aquisition_Press_Release.pdf

 

But no, this would not include any of the old Hughes birds, no idea where you could get that info from...I used to watch them back in the 70's test fly 'em. I swear that helped hook me on helicopters...maybe Hughes built 2,000 ????

 

I could ask him if I happen to run into him..

 

Goldy

Edited by Goldy
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Do those Schweizer numbers include Hughes built 269/300's?

 

Personally, I would take a 300Cbi over any Robbie built helicopter.

 

I am going by this site... http://www.griffin-helicopters.co.uk/accidentstats.asp

 

Not sure if it is 100% factual, but IT DOSE LINK EACH ACCIDENT TO AN NTSB report so I think it is credible... and it states H269.... not hughes.. not schweizer... "I" just refered to it as a 300...

Do I need to edit it and say the H269? .. I am going to say it is 269/300's

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Maybe they like to keep crashing the same ships over and over again?

 

OR maybe Sikorsky doesnt really know how many ships Schweizer has built ??

 

Check out the press release when Sikorsky bought them..scroll to the bottom..it says 900, not 2900.

 

I just give you the facts that I find....I wasnt there when each one of em rolled off the line.

 

http://www.sacusa.com/Aquisition_Press_Release.pdf

 

Maybe a complaint to the SEC is in order, since Sikorsky is a public company...false statements would be a no no.

 

Goldy

 

NO complaint to the SEC is nedded, I belive it is a true statment... is says... AND MORE THAN 900 HELICOPTERS

Edited by Helihead
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The other thing that made me laugh was you said only 900 Schweizers were built... how can this be when 1,535 accidents were reported in them... ??????

 

Who says you can only have one accident per airframe?

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Ohhh.. and every time I say Schweizer, I mean H269A/300/300CB/300CBI.. hughes ... and "schweizer"...

so lets just say H269 like we do when we make a flight plan... you know what I mean.

Edited by Helihead
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According to Wikipedia, 2800 of the TH55 version were built.

 

However, didnt Hughes sell this division like 4 times? Then part of it went to Mc Donnell Douglas, then part went to Schweizer, part went to somewhere else..Oh yeah, dont forget foreign licensing agreements where the same ships were built in other countries.

 

Dont know that you will ever get an accurate number.

Edited by Goldy
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I am going by this site... http://www.griffin-helicopters.co.uk/accidentstats.asp

 

Not sure if it is 100% factual, but IT DOSE LINK EACH ACCIDENT TO AN NTSB report so I think it is credible... and it states H269.... not hughes.. not schweizer... "I" just refered to it as a 300...

Do I need to edit it and say the H269? .. I am going to say it is 269/300's

 

I believe that site also includes Hughes built ships. So I don't think anyone knows how many were built then...?

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Who says you can only have one accident per airframe?

 

Did I say you can't... dang I need to go back and look at what I wrote. You can... just sayin' of 900 helicopters, there were over 1500 accidents... come on now. That is a little irrational.

Lets get to the facts. That is what I have been trying to get to this whole time... a site that shows either.. total hours flown of H269/300 and ratio to accidents... as well as the R-22 Ratio of Flight hours per year and # of accidents....

 

And to get to the bottom of how many were built. I thikn we know how many R-22's were built... but what about the H269/300. NON military????? ...... what about total including, military that became civially registered.

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I believe that site also includes Hughes built ships. So I don't think anyone knows how many were built then...?

 

 

yeah.. I meant to say it dose include hughes.. and schweizer... not sure how the NOT was put in front of the two. oops

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yeah.. I meant to say it dose include hughes.. and schweizer... not sure how the NOT was put in front of the two. oops

 

Actually, you meant to say does, but I won't say anything to anybody :D

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wow, didnt mean to ruffle too many feathers here.

 

Fact is, that version ship was just built by too many entities world wide to try and get an accurate count would probably take a bit more research than a post. I know what you are striving for, and I think the uk accident site is pretty accurate. You just have no way to really know how many ships there are, and how many hours each has flown.

 

In a post a few weeks ago, I joked that I had a job as the "helicopter hours policeman"...meaning there is no such thing, and any attempt to get to hours flown is just a best guess.

 

Goldy

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According to Wikipedia, 2800 of the TH55 version were built.

 

However, didnt Hughes sell this division like 4 times? Then part of it went to Mc Donnell Douglas, then part went to Schweizer, part went to somewhere else..Oh yeah, dont forget foreign licensing agreements where the same ships were built in other countries.

 

Dont know that you will ever get an accurate number.

 

Yeah who knows how many times Hughes was sold or how many were built. Your guess is as good as mine I think.

 

Didn't Kawasaki build some for a while too?

 

I'm just hoping Sikorsky can bump up the marketing and lower the price!!

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Both aircraft are safe, when flown within their limits. Both will put you in a bad way if you fly them beyond those limits.

 

My opinion is that SFAR 73 has done its job, ensured that people fly a Robbie like a Robbie, and not like any other helicopter. It is easy to get comfortable in a 300, because you "know" the margin is there, so you let it go further than you would a Robbie.

 

At the end of the day, the pilot at the controls has far more influence to the level of safety than the aircraft choice does.

 

Fly Safe!

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there are over 3000 hughes/schweizer 269/300's built.

 

without looking at the data the following info comes to mind...

 

about 314 269A's (civilian before TH-55's released)

about 792 269A's TH-55A's

about 20 269A-1's

about 450 269B's (model 300)

about 1050 269C's (hughes 269C's/300C's)

about 1050 269C's (schweizer produced 300C's and C-1's)

 

That totals 3676 and counting.

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