Guest vz893 Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 Hello, how is everyone. Allow me to introduce myself, my name is Vladimir. I am currently doing research for a aviation company that plans to design and build a "next generation" training platform within the next few years. I would like to ask the trainees, instructors, and school owners what features they would/wouldn't like to see in a training helicopter. Please understand that aside from a very few details, this helicopter is not set in stone. As of right now, everything is still sketches, lists of ideas, and a few conceptual drawings, so we are very open to ideas from everyone in the training industry. The few set details that I mentions before are that the helicopter will be a 2 seater, piston engine, and be priced (hopefully, knock on wood) in the $250K area. The ship will be designed FOR training purposes but not limited to. That's about all I have to really say. Thank you anyone who contributes, have a great day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelFire_91 Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 Nice comfortable seats!!!! Maybe adjustable lumbar support. (I know I'm dreaming...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beckwith Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 To be honest the first thing that came to mind for me was elbow room my left elbow is always jammed back in the door frame of the s300 or sticking outside a little if the doors are off.beyond minor comfort and cosmetic things though I doubt you need me to tell you it should be safe and cheap to operate. It would be nice if it looked cool though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captkirkyota Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 It would be nice if 2 people weighing 200 lbs each, could actually fly in it for at least 1.5 hours or more, that way people like me don't have to starve themselves to stay at 186 flight weight.No T-bar cyclic and a better inertia rated rotor than the 22. 2, 3, 4 or 105 blades does not matter IMO just as long as it auto rotates well without having only 1.5 seconds of reaction time to get the collective down if an engine fails.As far as school owners go, I think the more of them they can fit into a hangar the better, one reason R-series are so liked as well as low maintenance costs/schedule and long use of hours before a major overhaul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADRidge Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 I would love to see a S-300 with 20kts more speed, and the operating cost of a R-22 Beta II. Weight and balance should be such that two "fat americans" such as myself (6'0 and 204lbs) can fly 1.5hrs. Seats should be decent. I'm not asking for recliners as chairs, but something that doesn't make me hate life after a 3 hour xc would be very nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Hughes Posted October 6, 2008 Report Share Posted October 6, 2008 Nice comfortable seats!!!! Maybe adjustable lumbar support. (I know I'm dreaming...) It would be nice if 2 people weighing 200 lbs each, could actually fly in it for at least 1.5 hours or more I second those. Coupled together, a helicopter with those features would be quite attractive for more than just flight training. Realistically no manufacturer is going to eat into their profits to make students & CFIs more comfortable or try to save them from severe back problems. But maybe if the manufacturer was also aiming at another market along with flight training they may look into better seats in order to sell more units. Good starting point when looking to design a good seat.....RECARO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vz893 Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 Thank you for the feed back so far. Keep it coming as we can never have enough info about what the consumer wants. In regards to the suggestions submitted; We will make our seats comfortable! Don't expect something out of a Rolls Royce or RECARO, but a night and day difference to what is currently available in the trainer market. We will visit a few regional flight schools (maybe a few online polls as well) later on in the design stage and record physical measurements and weights of REAL students and instructors. We hope that this will allow us to better design the ergonomics and weight restriction on the ship. The heli will be modeled after larger, more common commercial platforms. This means NO t-bar cyclic. The rotors will be high inertia type, something we hope will save lives of pilots who do not have ninja reflexes. The rotor system will be of hingeless design, something we again think will save lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelliBoy Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 Build us a cheap Enstrom...with some cupholders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedge36 Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 (edited) S300 with some storage space and bigger door frames. Or R22 with a real trim system on a real cyclic with a 4" wider cabin. Please. I'll take two of whichever you come up with. Edited October 7, 2008 by Hedge36 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helonorth Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 It would be nice if 2 people weighing 200 lbs each, could actually fly in it for at least 1.5 hours or more, that way people like me don't have to starve themselves to stay at 186 flight weight.No T-bar cyclic and a better inertia rated rotor than the 22. 2, 3, 4 or 105 blades does not matter IMO just as long as it auto rotates well without having only 1.5 seconds of reaction time to get the collective down if an engine fails.As far as school owners go, I think the more of them they can fit into a hangar the better, one reason R-series are so liked as well as low maintenance costs/schedule and long use of hours before a major overhaul.They already make something like this. It's called a Schweizer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironranger Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 And how about a 5 gallon per hour fuel burn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Hughes Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 We will make our seats comfortable! Just remember that there can be a huge difference between a seat that is comfortable and a seat that will wreck your back and neck after hours and hours of sitting in it stooped over in the typical helicopter pilot tradition!! That's why we love lumbar support, cause it forces us to sit in a better position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captkirkyota Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 They already make something like this. It's called a Schweizer!Yeah maybe that'd be correct if I had not included "low maintenance costs/schedule and long use of hours before a major overhaul."the school i just went to used to be a 300 school and they said the cost s are far less with Robbies over 300 and maintenance is also much less. Thats what I've been told anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick1537 Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 (edited) Having only flown the r22 I can only comment on its strengths and weaknesses. I think by far its biggest strengths is its low maintenance schedule and cost. I like as a student not having to worry if the ship will be down due to, "unscheduled maintenance." Of course by that I mean normal wear and tear problems, those not associated with say a student over speeding the rotor. The biggest problems in my opinion would be the low inertia system which doesn't give you very long to enter auto. Also like everyone else said, the seats. They were never a major problem for me before, but I did my first 3 hour x-c yesterday and at 90 kts the cyclic is so far forward it was hurting my back (maybe I am just to short, I don't know). Hopefully you can use those points and apply it to your future aircraft. Edited October 8, 2008 by slick1537 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam32 Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 Yeah maybe that'd be correct if I had not included "low maintenance costs/schedule and long use of hours before a major overhaul."the school i just went to used to be a 300 school and they said the cost s are far less with Robbies over 300 and maintenance is also much less. Thats what I've been told anyway. Was it a C or a Cbi? The Cbi is suppose to have low maintenance and long hours before overhaul, not as much as a Robbie, but better then a C. As far as a new trainer, I think it is already underway....Cabri G2...??? Or how about a small turbine trainer? Or a fuel injected Hiller or Bell 47? Not to burst your bubble, but there is NO WAY you will get a new helicopter on the market for $250k. Just look at the costs going into the R66 to get it certified... Where are you going to produce them at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedge36 Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 As far as a new trainer, I think it is already underway....Cabri G2...??? Yep. Here's the specs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Hughes Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 (edited) Where are you going to produce them at? Sure they could put them on the market for $250K. They just have to build em in China and ship them in their hundreds!! Edited October 9, 2008 by Darren Hughes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelFire_91 Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 Not trying to offend anyone, but...I see a whole mess of issues with the Cabri G2, it looks good yeah, however it's a weight nightmare. Not to mention it's IGE ceiling at max is only 5000 ft? Good luck flying it in half of the US. I'll stick to my S300 unless something with a little better performance comes out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam32 Posted October 9, 2008 Report Share Posted October 9, 2008 Not trying to offend anyone, but...I see a whole mess of issues with the Cabri G2, it looks good yeah, however it's a weight nightmare. Not to mention it's IGE ceiling at max is only 5000 ft? Good luck flying it in half of the US. I'll stick to my S300 unless something with a little better performance comes out. I don't really know anything about the Cabri, but it looks pretty cool. I don't think it will be FAA certified for years, so I would also stick to a 269/300. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hella Copter Posted October 12, 2008 Report Share Posted October 12, 2008 Build us a cheap Enstrom...with some cupholders.And skids that are rounded at the end. The people who fly enstroms have some messed up shins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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