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If anyone is interested, I've been instructed to find a rated pilot who is looking to build about 24.5 hours of R44 cross-country time at $250/hr. I am doing a ferry flight from the Robinson factory in Torrance, CA (TOA) to Pennridge, PA (CKZ).

 

For more information, see our website listing:

http://www.foxchoppers.com/...20.php

Edited by Robert Schapiro

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(or experienced student pilot)

 

OK, understand that I am not the Robinson police. Although if an opening came up, I might apply !!

 

The requirement of Frank during ferry flights is "All aircraft leaving RHC, with the front left seat occupied, both occupants of the front seats must have a helicopter rating or all left seat controls must be removed and stowed in an aft seat baggage compartment. No primary flight training allowed during ferry flights."

 

I think that pretty much means you can't be a student pilot if you have to have a helicopter rating.

 

Frank, I'll consider that chief of police position for 150 K a year.

 

Goldy

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freaking ridiculous. how much are you getting paid an hour Robert to make the flight? plus your gonna pocket another $250/hr from some poor guy who just wants to build time.. why not say "hey, I am making a ferry flight and would love to share the experience with someone"

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freaking ridiculous. how much are you getting paid an hour Robert to make the flight? plus your gonna pocket another $250/hr from some poor guy who just wants to build time.. why not say "hey, I am making a ferry flight and would love to share the experience with someone"

 

Trust me, I wish I could. I have three students who I'd love to throw a bone to and give a free ride. Unfortunately, as a mere flight instructor, I must cower to the powers that be, who insist on charging for flight time.

 

I threw two free x-c flights in an R22 to one of my students (with two different bosses at two different flight schools) and got in trouble for both of them.

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The requirement of Frank during ferry flights is "All aircraft leaving RHC, with the front left seat occupied, both occupants of the front seats must have a helicopter rating or all left seat controls must be removed and stowed in an aft seat baggage compartment. No primary flight training allowed during ferry flights."

 

Thanks Officer Goldy ;-) I will look into that immediately.

Edited by Robert Schapiro

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freaking ridiculous. how much are you getting paid an hour Robert to make the flight? plus your gonna pocket another $250/hr from some poor guy who just wants to build time.. why not say "hey, I am making a ferry flight and would love to share the experience with someone"

 

Uh.. because it costs money to operate an R44 and R44 time is marketable. Half price is a pretty good deal... What are you going to charge me if I walk into Colorado Vertical looking to do some R44 dual?

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In reference to my last post, Officer Goldy is correct. I have made amendments to my initial post.

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I'll PM ya TVMAN

Edited by clay

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YOU are paying someone to do a job that they already have to do, and probably are getting paid by someone else as well.

 

None of the ferry cost is going to me. I'm just making my hourly rate. My understanding is that it's going to the fuel, travel cost (for me), and insurance cost during the flight en route.

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Not to change the subject away from the straying it's already done, but am I the only one that has a problem with Robinson dictating what I can or cannot do with a helicopter I just bought from them? I understand that he can't build them fast enough, but neither can Bell or Eurocopter. If you can fork out the bucks for one of their wonders, you can do whatever you want (legal stuff I'm talking about) when the money changes hands. I wonder if robinson fell on hard times that he would still feel this way.

 

I haven't read the SFAR in years, but is there anything in it about ferry flights from the factory or is this just his policy?

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Not to change the subject away from the straying it's already done, but am I the only one that has a problem with Robinson dictating what I can or cannot do with a helicopter I just bought from them?

 

I could not agree with you more. Regulations, whether they are government dictated or private-sector dictated, only cause more problems then they prevent. However, I do believe that a corporation (or even an individual) should have the right to decide who they do business with. But I do agree that once money changes hands, they should no longer have the right to dictate what you do with your own aircraft.

 

On that note, what is to prevent someone from "ferrying" the helicopter from TOA to LAX and calling that the final destination, then moving it again across the country?

 

I haven't read the SFAR in years, but is there anything in it about ferry flights from the factory or is this just his policy?

 

There is nothing in the SFAR 73 regarding ferry flights.

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Not to change the subject away from the straying it's already done, but am I the only one that has a problem with Robinson dictating what I can or cannot do with a helicopter I just bought from them? I understand that he can't build them fast enough, but neither can Bell or Eurocopter. If you can fork out the bucks for one of their wonders, you can do whatever you want (legal stuff I'm talking about) when the money changes hands. I wonder if robinson fell on hard times that he would still feel this way.

 

I haven't read the SFAR in years, but is there anything in it about ferry flights from the factory or is this just his policy?

 

Robinson doesn't want bad press from inexperienced pilots crashing brand new helicopters.

Nothing too unusual about that - many companies make their customers sign "Terms and Conditions" before selling a product. Just like when you agreed not to use your copy of iTunes to manufacture biological weapons.

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I agree with most of what has been said.

 

The issue of being able to restrict from the factory might be if the purchaser is using any of the affiliated companies (financing or insurance and the like) then they can and probably will dictate some restrictions.

 

Now this can be masked in some other form like, wanting to cover costs, make a profit or liability issues but none the less, still a restriction.

 

Just my $0.02 worth. Thanks for passing it on to us though.

 

edspilot

Edited by edspilot

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Frank talked about it during the safety course I was at. He said, in the early days, they had a few people ball them up and kill themselves within a short time frame when taking them from the factory. Not only was this bad for business, but it hurt morale as the employees felt the pain of people loosing their lives in a machine they had just built. In order to mitigate what was seen as pilot error, he put together the ferry pilot requirements.

 

Anyone who's read anything about Frank Robinson should know he's a fan of restrictions and regulations to promote safety and that he's absolutely unwavering on any of it. He (or maybe it was Bob Muse) brought up a case in which the company wouldn't even allow a new owner to "ferry" their aircraft to the other end of the TOA ramp because they did not meet the requirements. Any person who flies a new aircraft from that factory must meet the requirements, even if it's just to hover taxi down the ramp.

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Sounds like a good opportunity, but I think closer to $200 an hour would be more reasonable. You can find time in a 206 for under that if you look hard enough.

 

Does Robinson require any previous time in a 22 or 44 for this ferry flight? For instance, if one holds a PPL but all their time is in a Schweizer?

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Does Robinson require any previous time in a 22 or 44 for this ferry flight? For instance, if one holds a PPL but all their time is in a Schweizer?

 

The Robinson requirement only applies to the PIC. Since I will be acting as the PIC, whomever goes along on the trip only needs to be a "rated helicopter pilot".

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Robert- You are correct.

 

BoatFixerGuy- Simply put, a lot of ships were going east. East is the Mojave Desert, the winds really blow, the thermals go to 15,000 feet and it gets REALLY dark at night. Not only does Frank want to know the qualifications of the pilot, he wants to know your route, and what time of year you can and cannot travel over the desert areas.

 

He has a huge liability when a ship goes down, and a large number of fatals were occurring on their first flights out....so its nice to save lives, even nicer to save lives and save money.

 

Frank- Still waiting for that Chief of Police phone call.

 

Officer Goldy

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What it boils down to is this...

 

If you don't like the terms and conditions of the sale, then don't buy the product. I like Robinsons, but I'm not sure I would buy one if I had to agree to all of Robinson's terms. It's my money, and I'll spend it only like I want to spend it. If I were to think the guy was an idiot, I'd take my money elsewhere.

 

On the other hand, if I met their qualifications for ferrying, I would certainly try to cash in on that by offering my services to those who do not.

 

Another 2 cents,

 

~Jeff

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