JDHelicopterPilot Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Yeah, the 300 drops like a rock. The R22 is better in that respect. Although, what would you rather have? A higher inertia system or a feather weight low inertia system when the engine coughs? Each has good and bad sides. If you thought the 300 was bad, the A119 isn't much better. Steep profile in the glide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedge36 Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 The 300 does afford you a bit more time to wrap your brain around the idea that the engine just died. I like not having to fight with the governor on the way down when practicing power recoveries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clay Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 you have like 1.3 seconds to bottom the collective in the R22 before the RPM is decayed past recoverable if i remember correct? if that is the case, I would much rather the 300 to build the RPM. lets be real and think about it, if the engine quits for real , you weren't expecting it like in training. SOOO your caught off guard, I'd rather be able to build my RPM back after i react than possibly not be able to build it back but have a really nice slow descent rate. If you really want to brag about piston auto characteristics, everyone should go do atleast 1 hour in an Enstrom somewhere. Then you will see how the 22 and the 300's are lacking in rotor inertia. now for the disclaimer: I have .6 in an R22 (which by FAR was plenty to decide a big fat negative on that) - so my observation is strictly from hear-say. If it is true, so be it. But if not, then I'll retract my statement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedge36 Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 you have like 1.3 seconds to bottom the collective in the R22 before the RPM is decayed past recoverable if i remember correct? if that is the case, I would much rather the 300 to build the RPM. lets be real and think about it, if the engine quits for real , you weren't expecting it like in training. SOOO your caught off guard, I'd rather be able to build my RPM back after i react than possibly not be able to build it back but have a really nice slow descent rate. If you really want to brag about piston auto characteristics, everyone should go do atleast 1 hour in an Enstrom somewhere. Then you will see how the 22 and the 300's are lacking in rotor inertia. now for the disclaimer: I have .6 in an R22 (which by FAR was plenty to decide a big fat negative on that) - so my observation is strictly from hear-say. If it is true, so be it. But if not, then I'll retract my statement You certainly don't have any time to screw around. Coming from 300s the R22, my instructor's only advice was "when I pull an engine-out on you, you'd best beat me to the floor with the collective". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShitHot Posted October 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 You certainly don't have any time to screw around. Coming from 300s the R22, my instructor's only advice was "when I pull an engine-out on you, you'd best beat me to the floor with the collective". Its a trade off i guess, if you get the collective down in a high inertia rotor system like the 22 or 206, you'll have a hell of a lot easier time getting the ship on the ground, and will have the luxury of flying to a better spot if the need be. That is if you did get the collective down and didn't have the blades stop on you. In a Schweitzer you might have more time to drop your collective but good look flying anywhere farther then whats off your feet, be it the water or tree tops your not choosing where to land. Its a trade off, if your on your guard and do get the collective down immediately who wouldn't rather be in a high inertia system, but then again, will you be on your guard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedge36 Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Its a trade off i guess, if you get the collective down in a high inertia rotor system like the 22 or 206, you'll have a hell of a lot easier time getting the ship on the ground, and will have the luxury of flying to a better spot if the need be. That is if you did get the collective down and didn't have the blades stop on you. In a Schweitzer you might have more time to drop your collective but good look flying anywhere farther then whats off your feet, be it the water or tree tops your not choosing where to land. Its a trade off, if your on your guard and do get the collective down immediately who wouldn't rather be in a high inertia system, but then again, will you be on your guard? I've never heard somebody refer to the 22 as having a "high inertia rotor system". Lemme wipe the coffee off my screen and I'll get back to you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Hughes Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Yeah, I'm trying to get my head round that 1 too. I'd say it was a typo or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChprPlt Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 (edited) Yeah the 22 is low inertia and cant be compared with the 206. And Robinson says you have 1.1 seconds to get the collective down in a real engine failure. Edited October 30, 2008 by ChprPlt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimW68 Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Better really be on your game if it happens while ascending in the 22 - hell it's gotta be .25 sec. before it registers, leaves ya with very little time. Had 1 demonstrated while ascending and it blew me away how fast it decayed - not something I advocate demonstrating but sure am glad I got to see and understand how quick it really is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heli.pilot Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 Its a trade off i guess, if you get the collective down in a high inertia rotor system like the 22 or 206, you'll have a hell of a lot easier time getting the ship on the ground, and will have the luxury of flying to a better spot if the need be. That is if you did get the collective down and didn't have the blades stop on you. In a Schweitzer you might have more time to drop your collective but good look flying anywhere farther then whats off your feet, be it the water or tree tops your not choosing where to land. Its a trade off, if your on your guard and do get the collective down immediately who wouldn't rather be in a high inertia system, but then again, will you be on your guard? Ummmmm... really? High inertia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clay Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 i'll stick to my little 300C. I think I can find something to squeeze into and maybe bend the helicopter alot easier than you can MAYBE get your rotor RPM back. besides, what are the real glide ratio's between the two? anyone know? It cant be THAT big of a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedge36 Posted October 30, 2008 Report Share Posted October 30, 2008 i'll stick to my little 300C. I think I can find something to squeeze into and maybe bend the helicopter alot easier than you can MAYBE get your rotor RPM back. besides, what are the real glide ratio's between the two? anyone know? It cant be THAT big of a difference. +1 Though Nick showed me your 300C - that's an awfully... um, special paint scheme I get distracted in the Robbie trying not to overspeed. Never was a problem in the 300, and I didn't have to fight the governor on the way down. And man, has that governor made me lazy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChprPlt Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Hedge why do you fight the governor during an auto on a 22? Just hold the throttle closed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedge36 Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Hedge why do you fight the governor during an auto on a 22? Just hold the throttle closed... Mostly because I'm an over-thinking dumbass. Getting better, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShitHot Posted October 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 I've never heard somebody refer to the 22 as having a "high inertia rotor system". Lemme wipe the coffee off my screen and I'll get back to you...lol im sorry about that, i feel like an idiot, it was a long day yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Hunt Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Crash Residue, with 16 autos, you have used up my share as well as Gomer's! I have 40 years and 13,000 hours of flight time, and never had a problem with engine power. Plenty of practice autos, both as a student and as instructor, will keep the skills there, but in the real event, it will be the thought,"OK, how did the instructor simulate this one??" before the realisation of "This is real" kicks in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChprPlt Posted October 31, 2008 Report Share Posted October 31, 2008 Mostly because I'm an over-thinking dumbass. Getting better, though. haha great answer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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