JDHelicopterPilot Posted November 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2008 Why Goldy are you poking fun about my ride??? I love it! If I am going to fly a single in EMS I'd take the A119 any day. My ground speed the other day was 180knots but we cruise at 140-150 normaly. Love it. Anyway, the controlers are military I think. I didn't ask, and didn't think it should make a difference. They should be just as in tune with FARs as FAA controlers when at a Civil airport. I am just hanging out waiting to hear back after they meet with the Training and Standardization office on Wed. I was just shaking my head becuase it cost us .6 in flight time and 120 kilos of fuel when I should have been able to get in. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkyMtnHI Posted November 11, 2008 Report Share Posted November 11, 2008 Great posts folks, really good stuff.. i can't wait to get time to go thru it all... we have SVFR issues here all the time. thanks, dp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 (edited) Why Goldy are you poking fun about my ride??? Pure Jealousy thats why !!! I happen to love that ship, I drooled all over one at HAI last year....I think the paint is still stained. Nothing beats it for a single engine turbine, 1000 HP for take off, 5 hours of endurance...up to 7 seats,.,.fast as all get out, who even comes close to that ?? Great post by the way. I think most of us would have just departed on the CTAF. Did I say that out loud ? Goldy Edited November 12, 2008 by Goldy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDHelicopterPilot Posted November 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 Pure Jealousy thats why !!! I happen to love that ship, I drooled all over one at HAI last year....I think the paint is still stained. Nothing beats it for a single engine turbine, 1000 HP for take off, 5 hours of endurance...up to 7 seats,.,.fast as all get out, who even comes close to that ?? Great post by the way. I think most of us would have just departed on the CTAF. Did I say that out loud ? Goldy You are right on Goldy. If you are ever in the Yuma area or head to the Dunes, let me know you can check out the base. Some pilots I talked to said they would entertain the idea of just going in or out with out getting the SVFR. Several reasons led me to shooting for the SVFR. The way the FAA is looking at EMS. Also, the fact the airport has Airline service with an ILS even when the tower is closed. I figured just get the SVFR no big deal right? I didn't know what I was in for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 I really dont get down that way much. I'll be in Phoenix the 22/23rd, but not Yuma !! Know anybody with a 44 in PHX/Glendale area ?? Goldy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDHelicopterPilot Posted November 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 No, can't say I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1HeliCFI Posted November 15, 2008 Report Share Posted November 15, 2008 A friend of mine works in the tower of a class D airport. He says that they can not give a SVFR to anybody if they have IFR traffic within 10 miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomer Pylot Posted November 16, 2008 Report Share Posted November 16, 2008 If there is IFR traffic inbound to the airport, they should tell you that and tell you the estimated delay time. They're not supposed to just deny a clearance completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDHelicopterPilot Posted November 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2008 That's right. Also my understanding is that the airspace is then broken down into sections for ATC reasons. They don't allow multiple SFVR aircraft in the same section. That is what I heard but I am not a controler so could be wrong. Either way I was denied out right. The reason? The controler(approach) had been trained that they couldn't give an SVFR clearance when the tower was closed. That was incorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 JD-one, FAA- zero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justfly Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 ...Anyway, the controlers are military I think. I didn't ask, and didn't think it should make a difference. They should be just as in tune with FARs as FAA controlers when at a Civil airport. I am just hanging out waiting to hear back after they meet with the Training and Standardization office on Wed.WOW! When I was reading your second post (Post #5), besides my jaw dropping! , I looked at the AF/D and when I saw it was joint CIV/MIL I wondered if they were military controllers. You're right, it shouldn't make a difference, but in my experience it has. The military controllers I've been "handled" by have seemed less sure, less informed, and more rigidly rule bound. I don't know if that is systematic or anecdotal and coincidental to your recent experience? I was just shaking my head becuase it cost us .6 in flight time and 120 kilos of fuel when I should have been able to get in. Oh well.Man, you're taking this calmly. If the shoe was on the other foot and you had contravened a regulation, would they be as understanding and considerate? Um, have they read FAA Order JO 7110.65S, Chapter 7, Section 5??? Unless there is a LOA to the contrary, I'm not sure how they are viewing this as interpretational? Unless I'm misreading that, it seems the controller should be pulled from their position immediately for further training, and you should be issued an apology. This could have worked out very differently (poorly) for someone else under other circumstances that didn't have your options, and cost a LOT more than .6 hrs & fuel. What is the similarity between air traffic controllers and pilots? If a pilot screws up, the pilot dies; If the air traffic controller screws up, the pilot dies.Can't wait to hear where this goes, let us know. Thanks for sharing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelFire_91 Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 JD-one, FAA- zero Now now Goldy! You should always know the FAA's motto: "We're not happy until you're not happy!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOATFIXERGUY Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 Hey JD, Just noticed this thread... My 2 cents... Helicopters are unusual for controllers period. I landed between hangars once and the controller rolled fire thinking I'd crashed... it wasn't that bad of a landing! She was used to seeing helicopters use a runway and air taxi, so it was unusual for her. I think that's where all of the confusion comes from. Unless you operate in an area where there are numerous RW operations, controllers don't understand them. All of the laws and regs have been discussed, so I won't get into them. SVFR in the GOM is a normal daily deal. I don't know how we'd operate without it. It is different to see and hear a dozen or so aircraft all cleared for SVFR at the same time going the same general direction. As far as JD's experience, I have a huge problem of someone working and being denied for no reason at all except, "Because." The controller needs additional training. I would be making a phone call and educating someone. You can do it diplomatically...directly to the controller, but he/she needs to learn as do we all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 I would be making a phone call and educating someone. You can do it diplomatically...directly to the controller, but he/she needs to learn as do we all. I think that is exactly what JD did...but I wonder....since JD flies an EMS ship, what if this had been an emergency call and not just a routine going back to base ?? Would JD have pushed the issue at that point? I think I mentioned that many of us would have just departed, and done the wrong thing...JD was trying to play by the rules. Goldy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOATFIXERGUY Posted November 27, 2008 Report Share Posted November 27, 2008 I think that is exactly what JD did...but I wonder....since JD flies an EMS ship, what if this had been an emergency call and not just a routine going back to base ?? Would JD have pushed the issue at that point? I think I mentioned that many of us would have just departed, and done the wrong thing...JD was trying to play by the rules. Goldy JD is a competent pilot and did the right thing by following ATC and not getting into an argument over the air. I missed the post on the call to ATC. An emergency call would probably have changed the entire exchange for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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