Whats the minimum?

[HappyKer]

Hey everyone,

 

So I have been really really wondering something for quite sometime now. I have always had a thing for planes and helicopters ever since I was little. I finally got a chance a couple years ago to take an Intro/Discovery Helicopter Lesson and I also took one in a plane even longer before that. I absolutely loved them both but it was the helicopter that stuck out to me the most. I have not been able to stop thinking about it and I want to pursue a career in flying. My problem however is well I have no money and my credit is pretty bad (though depending on which credit bureau you check it may show up non-existent) thanks to my lack of money, dropping out of college w/o a degree and no good paying job.

 

So my question to you guys is it even remotely possible for an employer to hire me and then pay for my training to get a private and then commercial license so I could work for them? If not hire me with no experience what so ever then is there a minimal you could possibly in a long stretch see someone hiring me (such as I get my private and then they pay for commercial)? I know they do this for truck drivers so why not helicopter pilots? Yeah yeah yeah I know its not anywhere near the expense, but still.

 

I would be willing to work hard and call, call, call anyone and everyone. Then show up in person, show up in person, show up in person without giving up if I knew there was even a .0000000001% chance of this happening. I would also be willing to sign some kind of contract stating I would work for so long for some measly pay till I paid back said employer for the favor of helping me obtain my dream.

 

I barely make enough money to live off of as it is now so its not like I would be losing anything and I would be slowly getting closer to what I truly want to do with my life.

 

In case it matters my resume would very much impress someone trying to hire a sales person and possibly interest someone hiring for a computer repair technician; Not for a pilot though. I am a 23 year old female with over 8 years of sales experience and 4 years of computer schooling though thats about it.

 

So what do you guys think? Is it possible at all? Remember if I even see a glimmer of hope I will work REALLY hard at finding this employer (and leads in the right direction would be appreciated there as well) Oh and while I do live and prefer to stay somewhere near Philadelphia I would be willing to relocate if it was the only possible way.

 

Thanks!! Kerri

[PhotoFlyer]

This has been asked before, and the short answer is no, probably not going to happen.

 

You could probably find a job with a company, but they won't pay for your training. They can hire and train a certificated pilot cheaper than paying to train you, and the market of low time pilots is saturated right now.

Edited December 18, 2008 by PhotoFlyer

[Gomer Pylot]

Companies are not likely to pay for >$50k of training for an unknown quantity when there is an overflowing supply of pilots who already have the certificate and are willing to work for nothing. I won't say it's impossible, because some men are willing to pay almost anything for the right services, but the odds are almost infinitely long against it.

[apiaguy]

If you'd include a photo I'd be better able to determine if there is a chance.

[PhotoFlyer]

If you'd include a photo I'd be better able to determine if there is a chance.

 

Very uncalled for...

[heli.pilot]

Very uncalled for...

I agree.

 

In response to the original question, I would say your chances a about nil. As stated in previous posts, there is an abundance of people out there willing to spend $60,000 (or have already spent it) on training, so there is really no incentive for an employer to pay to train you. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, all of us here on Vertical Reference are either pilots or dream of being a pilot, so we understand your desire. You mentioned truck driving, I know several truck drivers who make great money - some make as much as pilots. Why not get a job driving a truck and pay your way through flight school that way?

 

Don't let us shatter your dream, just get creative about finding a new way of achieving it. It can be done, just probably not the way you were hoping.

 

All the best.

[FLHooker]

While it certainly isn't for everyone, the Military will pay... Of course, there is a huge obligation in return...

 

Many, to include myself, believe it's well worth it.

 

It is up to you though, nobody can make that decision for you.

 

 

 

CHAD

[delorean]

Sorry, if that were the case, everyone would be a helicopter pilot.

 

Save as much money as you can and get through your commercial/CFI training. THEN, someone may take you under their wing and get you up to a point where you can fly on their insurance. The only other option, the military.

[Gomer Pylot]

I don't think apiaguy's post was all that out of line. The only way to get free flight training that I know of would require good looks and a willingness to use them. Prudes need not apply.

[apiaguy]

amen brother.

[PhotoFlyer]

The comment was out of line. The insinuation was that the only way she could find an employer that would pay for her training is with her good looks. Regardless of it's truth it's extremely sexist, and a bad attitude to put forward. If you would like to discuss this more please start another thread, don't hijack this one.

 

--PF

Edited December 19, 2008 by PhotoFlyer

[IFLY]

Kerri I suggest you stop by your college to see what you need to do to finish your degree. Talk to a recruiter for the National Guard and see if your college credits are going to get you close to their requirements, if not then try the Army. They are realistically the only ones that will pay for your flight training.

 

Jerry

[heli.pilot]

The comment was out of line. The insinuation was that the only way she could find an employer that would pay for her training is with her good looks. Regardless of it's truth it's extremely sexist, and a bad attitude to put forward. If you would like to discuss this more please start another thread, don't hijack this one.

 

--PF

 

amen brother

[HappyKer]

Thanks Everyone for the responses! I'm sorry about not joining in the discussion sooner as I didnt realize my post actually went through as it didnt show up right away.

 

First I was not insulted by what apiaguy said. I mean he could have been a little more polite about how he put it I suppose but I realize there is alot of truth behind his comment and even laughed a little myself when I read it. I have been doing promotional/brand ambassador type of work to get by lately and 95% of jobs ask for a picture with your resume. I think its insulting but I do it anyway as I know they wouldn't hire me otherwise. I generally don't like to get ANYTHING because of how I look (though I suppose I am guilty of letting guys buy me beer a little too often). I am a very business, professionally and independent minded person (which makes me wonder why I never have any money) and I demand to be looked at and respected as so.

 

I would LOVE to go back to college as well but with times being as tough as they are I cant afford that right now either and with my credit as bad as it is Im not so sure I could do it any other way but cash. My schooling that I mentioned was mostly at a Votech although I went to college at a tri-semester tech university for a year. I jumped into college way too quickly out of highschool and wasnt ready for it and my decision to pick Network communications was the wrong one too as it bored the heck out of me. I ended up failing a few classes and if I were to guess I would say I have about 12 credits at that school.

 

Military is not a route I really want to go although I cant deny that I havent thought about it. I am a pretty tough/athletic woman so I would probably be able to take it. I have actually been trying to get into law enforcement however and have a decent chance of making into the academy through the transit police in about 6 months or so from now. My plan, as its alot more money then I am used to making was to use that money to work on getting my pilots licenses while on the force. Then if that all works out I was going to try and get the cities department to let me fly for them (both departments work hand in hand and transit police here are 100% certified LEO's)

 

So the one question I am still a little unsure of is what is the minimum training/licenses I would have to acquire before you guys see being feasible in getting an employer to pay the rest? One of you mentioned them hiring a certified pilot cheaper then me and then training them. Did you mean one with a private license and then the company paying for them to get a commercial one? If not does anyone see it being likely at all that a company would pay for me to get a commercial license should I manage to get a private license?

 

Thanks again! Kerri

[Gomer Pylot]

IME it's rare that an employer will train anyone, other than aircraft transitions. You need a commercial license with instrument rating, and more than a thousand hours of PIC time before most companies will be interested. I don't know of many shortcuts to that. It's a very, very competitive industry, and people will do lots of things just to get flight time, nevermind training for a license. I don't want to rain on your parade, but that's the way it is.

[heli.pilot]

If you want to go the LE pilot route, I would ask some questions of the guys on the LE forum. I'm not sure if the department pays for any training costs or not, but they do hire pilots with a LOT less hours than regular commercial operators require. Gomer Pylot is right, commercial operators will want to see at least 1000 hours PIC before they will consider you, whereas I have heard of LEOs getting into a pilot seat with only a few hundred hours. Again, check with the guys on the LE forum - there are a whole bunch of guys with a whole bunch of experience there. From the research I've done, most departments (though not all) require their pilots to be sworn officers and to have served several years - so it's not necessarily a fast route. If LE is something you're interested in though, it could be a good (and possibly cheaper) option for you. Good luck with it all!

[TXLonghorn]

This has been asked before, and the short answer is no, probably not going to happen.

 

You could probably find a job with a company, but they won't pay for your training. They can hire and train a certificated pilot cheaper than paying to train you, and the market of low time pilots is saturated right now.

 

I know this was posted a few weeks ago, but with everyone's experience, is the job market for low time pilots going to open up or are those of us who have waited to start school pretty much out of luck for the time being if we choose to start school and get into debt with no hope of landing a job?

 

I tried to start school a year ago but couldn't find a job that paid enough to comfortably take out the initial loan to start. I'm not looking into flight school again but really don't want to take on that kind of debt right now if there is so much uncertainty.

 

Thanks for the help and advice.

[Gomer Pylot]

If there is any change in the near term, it will be for the worse as the economy implodes. When companies start to get into financial squeezes, the helicopter is one of the first things to go, whether it's owned or leased. Best case scenario, IMO, is status quo. During the early 80s, lots of pilots lost their jobs, and I think that was only a tiny fraction of the downturn we're going to see. I really, really hope I'm wrong, but I wouldn't bet that way.

[heli.pilot]

I think everyone should be concerned about the economy, not just us pilots. The bottom line is this: how important is it to you that you fly? If you are not going to be happy doing anything else, then get out there and learn to fly. If you'd be equally happy doing a number of other things then maybe there's a better option for you. Strangely though, I don't see many people heading off to college deliberating the way that we all did about whether the return on their investment "makes sense". There are plenty of colleges out there that will charge you just as much for a degree as a flight school will charge to train you to fly helicopters, yet the cost does not seem so readily questioned. Similarly, there are other careers that are equally as turbulent as aviation, no pun intended , and yet those who pursue them do so despite those inherent risks. There are no guarantees when training for any career, unfortunately...

[TXLonghorn]

I'm watching the economy and hear a lot from my brother who works for an investment company and I know its not good. I did go to school and have a degree (film production) that is not a great return on my investment and now work in radio which is just as volatile as anything out there right now. Radio is not going to by my future and I was looking to flying as something that would be a long term career that I know I’ll enjoy doing in whatever form it takes. With the uncertainty that I’ve been reading about on these forums, I am now taking a step back and re-evaluating the whole idea.

 

Thanks for the update. I guess I shouldn’t have waited so long and jumped in 2 years ago when I had the chance and there weren’t as many pilots and economic issues.

[coloheli]

Not olnly should we all be concerned about the economy, we should be eraged about our government. Not sure if how many people know about this, but this is no joke!! WAKE UP AMERICA! We are in trouble. Please google North American Union.

 

Not to to anything away from your question HappyKer. You might try the power ball. I am.

[Gomer Pylot]

Two years ago there were just as many pilots, if not more. SSH was churning them out by the hundreds.

 

How do you know you would enjoy flying helicopters in whatever form it takes? The only way to know that is to do it for years. I've known lots of pilots who gave it up and took jobs as teachers, truck drivers, and all sorts of other things. It looks glamorous from the outside, but not everyone can live with it long-term. The feeling that you absolutely have to be flying doesn't stay alive in everyone forever. It's just a job. It's better than some, worse than some, and it's not for everyone.

[TXLonghorn]

How do you know you would enjoy flying helicopters in whatever form it takes? The only way to know that is to do it for years.

 

I don't know if this was directed at me, but I know I don't want to sit in an office the rest of my life. I guess if your goal is to talk people out of flying, then keep it up. I don't know if I'd enjoy doing anything for the rest of my life, but based on my experience in and around helicopters, I believe it's something I'd like to learn and work at for the rest of my working life.

 

I'm sure everyone starts jobs and then leaves for various reasons. That's indicative of every walk of life. For the time being, I have put it on the back burner and will probably only look at it as a hobby rather than a way of life for the time being due to the economy and saturation of pilots and lack of jobs.

[Rogue]

I don't think he's trying to talk you out of it, Gomer is a word most people don't know - pragmatic. It is easily confused with pessimistic but not so. Very simply it is the plain truth spoken plainly. Flying for fun and flying for food are two different things.

 

Let me put it this way, the guy training me is a Chief Pilot of a 135 op, while taking lessons yesterday he gets the phone call, has to fly to Lousiana on Saturday night so he can be on standby in case they need him on Sunday. Now he had planned to spend Sunday ( today ) watching the super bowl kicked back on the recliner with his family but instead is in timbucktoo louisiana in a trailer sitting on call. He loves every minute of it however, the question is would you? 14/14 sounds great but guess what the new guy's schedule works out to be - holidays. You want to spend your 4th of July and Christmas sitting in the lousiana swamp 100 miles from nowhere? because that is the reality of GOM life and GOM life is the reality for most 1,000 hour pilots looking for a job.

 

so yes while lots of people leave lots of jobs for lots of reasons, lots of people get into aviation for the same reason - they love to fly. again, flying for fun and flying for food are two different things. there is no glamour unless you just absolutely love it no matter where and when you have to do it.