USAR153D Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Hi all! Currently I'm an E4/Corporal Marine Reservist putting together a WOFT package. I just passed the AFAST and am having the 3 LOR's drafted as we speak. My question is if there are black and white guidelines as far as who can write them. I was told in a perfect world the Army would like to have O3/W3's or above write them and preferably ones with aviation experience. One of them is being done by my CO an O5/Lt. Col and Marine Cobra Pilot, however the other 2...one from my XO, an O5 (Lt. Col) and one from the Career Planner/Retention Specialist E7/GySgt. The XO and GySgt firstly have no aviation experience, and secondly the E7/GySgt obviously is not a W3/O3 or higher. Will someone please tell me whether or not these letters will be acceptable? Thanks, Cliff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linc Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 (edited) Q: What is the standard on Letters of Recommendation? A: A maximum of three letters of recommendation will be accepted and they must be less than 12 months old. You require one from your first level of UCMJ (Company Commander), one from your Field Grade UCMJ authority (Battalion Commander) and one from a senior warrant officer (SWO) in your chosen career specialty. The letter from the SWO is not required for all WOMOSs (see WOMOS prerequisites) but is STRONGLY recommended. For flight applications you may substitute a letter from a MAJ or higher (Aviation Branch on flight status) for the SWO. The Cdr and Bn Cdr letters must be from your current chain of command unless you have been assigned less than 90 days. In this instance, you may obtain letters from your previous chain-of-command, but you must make note of this by attaching a note or memo to the letters. The letters should be specific and quantifiable. Do not use a form letter with generic and flowery sentences. General Officer letters of recommendation will not be reviewed by the selection board unless that Officer is in your direct chain of command or when the letter is used as the Senior Aviator letter of recommendation.--Source The LOR from your CO will be fine: "Applicants from other military services may be interviewed by a field grade aviator from their branch of service if an Army aviator is not readily available," and, "If the unit commander or above is a field grade aviator, the aviator interview may be part of the commander's endorsement. In this case, the commander's endorsement must contain the same statement required for the aviator interview."(http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/warrant/prerequ/WO153A.html) You will still need a LOR from your Company CO (O-3 or higher). If there is a discrepancy in the requirement and how your chain of command is organized, I recommend that you contact the Warrant Officer Recruiting Branch. Edited January 26, 2009 by Linc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnall Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 If you are assigned at the BN level and don't have a company commander as such, then I would expect the XO letter is fine. The CO (aviator) letter should contain the word-for-word text required (see WO recruiting website) in addition to whatever he wants to say about you. Killing two requirements with one stone gives you the ability to add a third letter that's bonus. The Gunney may or may not meet the intent. You can get clarification as advised above. Best case obviously would be to get another O4+ aviator from another service, or O4/CW3+ Army aviator. You can usually arrange an interview with an Army CW3+ if you make an effort to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLHooker Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Marine, Linc has already posted the line from the requirements. That should be fine. Out of curiousity, are you out of WPB?? I was down there 2 weeks ago doing paradrops with the ANGLICO unit. CHAD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAR153D Posted January 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Chad, Yes, actually I am a member of that ANGLICO unit. I am not jump qualified though. If your were the Chinook pilot that was doing the drops in Avon Park with us then I was probably standing next to you at one point or another after you had landed. Funny enough, I actually specifically remember seeing the pilot (whether yourself or not) and thinking over whether or not I should go up and ask him questions about the WOFT program but I believe at the time he was tied up with all the shiny collars that my command has. Linc, I don't have a Company CO or a SWO in my Section/OCC Field. Matter of fact there's only 2 in my whole unit and they're Forward Observers. Also, the XO is not an Aviator but again is an O5/ Lt. Col. From what I'm gathering the weight of his collar doesn't necessarily matter then?! The fact that he is not an Aviator disqualifies that letter? The ANGLICO Units in the USMC are set up a lot differently than traditional MC. I'm thinking my best bet is to contact the WO Recruiting board directly. Let me tell you, this recruiter I'm dealing with needs to step it up. I'm finding that myself, like many other applicants for the WOFT program from what I'm reading, are having to find out all of this info 95% on our own. Hey, whatever though. I WANT THIS and I'm going to do what it takes. I'm grateful that there is such online resources such as these discussion boards that are so helpful. dnall, Lets hope you're right as far as my XO's letter being sufficient. I have another former coworker/retired Army O3's letter in the shute as backup but he's not an Aviator either. "General Officer letters of recommendation will not be reviewed by the selection board unless that Officer is in your direct chain of command or when the letter is used as the Senior Aviator letter of recommendation. " Im thinking maybe the above statement taken from Linc's quote might justify my XO's letter but we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linc Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Linc,... ...I'm thinking my best bet is to contact the WO Recruiting board directly. Let me tell you, this recruiter I'm dealing with needs to step it up. I'm finding that myself, like many other applicants for the WOFT program from what I'm reading, are having to find out all of this info 95% on our own. Hey, whatever though. I WANT THIS and I'm going to do what it takes...That's what it takes, and that's why the process to apply for an active duty Army position is what it is. Helping with a WO packet is like an additional duty for recruiters. Their main job is to enlist new soldiers, not to help make warrant officers. They go to school to learn how to do the one, but not the other. That one they learn as on-the-job training, if they even care to try at all. I understand your frustration, because I enlisted rather than apply as a civilian for exactly the reasons you and others describe in your dealings with recruiters. If it is what you want, then you will take the steps necessary to make it happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAR153D Posted January 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Also, I went to the DAR WO Recruiting website and the blank PDF links on there *for packets submitted after JAN 2009* aren't working for me. I'm using Firefox for a web browser. When I click the two links it gives me a scrambled up bunch of numbers and letters. I need: USAREC Form 1935 (Resume, Warrant Officer Application) USAREC Form 1936 (Letter of Recommendation (LOR), Warrant Officer Application) Ive tried googling both of these with no success. If someone would give me some direction on obtaining these forms; links etc. it would be greatly appreciated. Cliff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAR153D Posted January 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 That's what it takes, and that's why the process to apply for an active duty Army position is what it is. Helping with a WO packet is like an additional duty for recruiters. Their main job is to enlist new soldiers, not to help make warrant officers. They go to school to learn how to do the one, but not the other. That one they learn as on-the-job training, if they even care to try at all. I understand your frustration, because I enlisted rather than apply as a civilian for exactly the reasons you and others describe in your dealings with recruiters. If it is what you want, then you will take the steps necessary to make it happen. I understand. I had a suspicion that was the case. Thanks for clarifying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnall Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 I had a one star as my senior aviator letter when I was initially applying to active duty as a civilian, but I ended up going the guard route & couldn't use it. I think the XO letter will work out, but talk to the board folks. If not, they will give you some guidance on what you need to do. Don't worry about the recruiter. They aren't bad people, but the really don't ever know what they're doing on this. It's really the Army's fault that they do officer recruiting this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linc Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Cliff, Those are PureEdge forms, that is, they require the PureEdge software which ties in with Internet Explorer. It is a much better program than what we previously used in the Army. You can find the PureEdge software on the Army Publishing Directorate's page at http://www.apd.army.mil/usapa_download.htm. Once you've installed the software, you should be able to save them to your computer and open them. If you're selected, I can almost guarantee that you will need that software, even at home, so it is another one of those things that you have to endure in the process. Again, best of luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAR153D Posted January 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 I had a one star as my senior aviator letter when I was initially applying to active duty as a civilian, but I ended up going the guard route & couldn't use it. I think the XO letter will work out, but talk to the board folks. If not, they will give you some guidance on what you need to do. Don't worry about the recruiter. They aren't bad people, but the really don't ever know what they're doing on this. It's really the Army's fault that they do officer recruiting this way. I like what you said before about killing two birds with one stone regarding the Senior Aviator Letter. Thanks for the advice. I'll keep you all informed of what the WO Recruiting folks tell me when I finally get in touch with them. I shot em an email so who knows how soon they'll respond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAR153D Posted January 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Cliff, Those are PureEdge forms, that is, they require the PureEdge software which ties in with Internet Explorer. It is a much better program than what we previously used in the Army. You can find the PureEdge software on the Army Publishing Directorate's page at http://www.apd.army.mil/usapa_download.htm. Once you've installed the software, you should be able to save them to your computer and open them. If you're selected, I can almost guarantee that you will need that software, even at home, so it is another one of those things that you have to endure in the process. Again, best of luck! Linc, It won't let me download the Pure Edge Viewer without an AKO login or CAC Card access. I wonder if there's any way to get this software on my personal PC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnall Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 you should be able to register for an AKO account under your marine credentials. You may or may not have to do it from work with a CAC. That's be useful for you to have anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAR153D Posted January 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 you should be able to register for an AKO account under your marine credentials. You may or may not have to do it from work with a CAC. That's be useful for you to have anyway. I tried registering with no success. I will try using the recruiters system and try filling out the forms on there. I should have CAC Card Access my next drill in about two weeks so if I havent obtained the forms by then I'll try during that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLHooker Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Cliff, That's hilarious. I was the pilot in A2CU's... It's our version of the digital patern flight suit. My buddy was in the old style flightsuit, and actually is a former Marine. I am actually from WPB, and good buddies with Doc Adam Labruto from your unit. We will be back down there sometime soon to work with ya'll again. Make sure you say something next time, we'll get you strapped in to atleast go for a ride, it's no problem at all. It looks like you are pretty well set as far as questions go, if you have any questions that are FL NG specific, don't hesitate to ask. CHAD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAR153D Posted January 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Cliff, That's hilarious. I was the pilot in A2CU's... It's our version of the digital patern flight suit. My buddy was in the old style flightsuit, and actually is a former Marine. I am actually from WPB, and good buddies with Doc Adam Labruto from your unit. We will be back down there sometime soon to work with ya'll again. Make sure you say something next time, we'll get you strapped in to at least go for a ride, it's no problem at all. It looks like you are pretty well set as far as questions go, if you have any questions that are FL NG specific, don't hesitate to ask. CHAD Wow. Small world. I know who that Doc is. I think he's on the most recent Detachment that they sent out from my unit actually.I'm pretty sure our next 2 drills FEB and MAR are home drills at our unit Maintenance/Medical stand downs but there may be some para ops in MAR. Definitely let me know if/when you'll be here because I'd love to take a ride. That would be awesome! Whats your rank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLHooker Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Yeah, Adam is headin' overseas. And I'm a CW2 CHAD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAR153D Posted January 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Yeah, Adam is headin' overseas. And I'm a CW2 CHAD Yeah man they're going to get some over in A-Stan most likely. So...CW2 huh? How does the promotion work from WO1-CW2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLHooker Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Easy as pie... get rated. Hell, you don't even need to be rated. It's all based on time. WO1-CW2 is 24 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAR153D Posted January 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Easy as pie... get rated. Hell, you don't even need to be rated. It's all based on time. WO1-CW2 is 24 months. Ok nice. I had heard that it was based on time in grade. Good to confirm that. That time starts the day you graduate WOCS right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linc Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 That time starts the day you graduate WOCS right?Yes. Technically, your time in grade starts the day you are appointed to WO1, it just happens to be the same day as graduating WOCS (at least since October 1993). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAR153D Posted February 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 I have my LOR's and Essay done. If anyone would be willing to give me some feedback on them I could shoot you them in an email. Thanks Cliff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAR153D Posted January 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2010 (edited) My LOR's are dated as of FEB '09. What would be the absolute max amount of time since an LOR has been signed that it can/should be submitted in a packet? (I realize in a perfect world they would be as freshly dated as possible.) Edited January 16, 2010 by Marine4WOFT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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