Yamer Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 so i just read the chapter on airspace and charts and uncontrolled airports... ironically i just came across this video... weird.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1rJ34kl0oo...feature=related according to the book, if this truly is an uncontrolled airport, i should be bashing the cessna pilot right about now so... STUPID FIXED WINGERS!!! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick1537 Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 If it was uncontrolled are there any regulation concerning right of way on the taxi-way? It seems like if either pilot had just been looking around that near missed would have been avoided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamer Posted January 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 according to the jeppessen book, the helo had the right of way all the way from the runway to the taxiway. not the little section of pavement inbetween the two which is where he wound up stopping... if its uncontrolled of course. i think im pretty confident that they saw each other but i think the helo pilot thought the cessna was gonna stop like he's supposed to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmfish Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Personally, it looked to me like the Cessna had the right of way and the helicopter pilot should have stopped to let him pass. I also think the helicopter pilot was cooking a little too hot and wasn't looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apiaguy Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 of course this is all conjecture but.... when you're in a helicopter.. why wouldn't you completely avoid the airplane by either flying around its intended course...ie.. instead of making a half mile quickstop over the taxi way... plan your approach to your intended termination point clear of moving aircraft!? Seems silly to approach like he did, but whatever... I would be interested to see whose insurance would have paid after the lawyers got finished with that one if there was contact.... "avoid the flow of fixed wing traffic" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miloe Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 I figure I'm a whole lot more maneuverable than a fixed wing taxing around so I just give them a wide berth. Heck if you crowd one like that and make it stop for you, it's not like it can back up out of your way anyway. You're going to have to go around it so why cause a big thing about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MN Heli Flyer Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Personally, it looked to me like the Cessna had the right of way and the helicopter pilot should have stopped to let him pass. I also think the helicopter pilot was cooking a little too hot and wasn't looking. I agree with palmfish. I think the Cessna had the right of way if it is uncontrolled. If not it is still always see and avoid. Situation awareness goes a long way in preventing an incident. Maybe the helicopter pilot was concentrating on following the taxi lines so intensely that he almost didn't see any conflicts. It also looks like they both were going to go the same direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Doesnt matter who had right of way, or whether is was controlled. Bottom line, FAA expects us helo pilots to use the flexibility of our aircraft to avoid these conflicts. Besides, a high wing fixed wing is not going to see you when on the ground and you are above them. Goldy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerock Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 yeah, as Goldy says, and I was just at a Heli meeting a couple of months ago where the FAA guy basically stated it's up to us to use our maneuverability to 'jump' out of the way when needed and that would be taken into consideration when a bump/hit/crash happens. So beware...rules kind of bend around Helis...sort of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.R.O. Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Doesnt matter who had right of way, or whether is was controlled. Bottom line, FAA expects us helo pilots to use the flexibility of our aircraft to avoid these conflicts. Besides, a high wing fixed wing is not going to see you when on the ground and you are above them. Goldy I agree with Goldy. This is one of those areas where even if you have right of way, insisting on it might lead to an accident. We have additional capabilities over fixed wing aircraft, so we should assume additional responsibility when it comes to keeping ourselves safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palmfish Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 The way I see it, the helicopter had three strikes going against him. 1. He was in a transition area and the airplane was already on the taxiway.2. They were converging and the airplane was to the right of the helicopter.3. More maneuverable vs. less maneuverable. I don't think they are rules written in a regulation (re: ground ops), but they are common "rules of the road" that we are all familiar with. The bottom line - be courteous and professional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wannabe1 Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Like Goldy said, the fixed wing guys, high or low wing aren't going to see those pesky helos... (okay I twisted Goldy's statement a bit to segue to the attached viedo) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamer Posted January 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Like Goldy said, the fixed wing guys, high or low wing aren't going to see those pesky helos... (okay I twisted Goldy's statement a bit to segue to the attached viedo) lol i've seen that one before.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDHelicopterPilot Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 I didn't even need to see the video again as I knew exactly the one we are talking about. It's been on here before. There are several issues that come to play here. First, the helicopter pilot made quite the approach. it was fast and instead of terminating the approach on the runway he decided to continue it right into an airtaxi following the taxiway exit with out stopping. Did the helicopter pilot announce what he was about to do? Meaning did he say he was going to airtaxi off the runway and use the taxiway to parking? Did he communicate to the fixed wing pilot he was going to pass in front or behind him? Did he even know the fixed wing pilot was there? Those questions we will never know the answers to. It is my opinion and what I taught my students in the past is that if you are going to behave like a fixed wing pilot in a helicopter then you had better follow those rules. Since the helicopter pilot was going to use the runway and then taxi to parking via the taxiway then he should have cleared the runway beyond the hold short lines then waited for the fixedwing to pass by. That would have been the proper thing to do in this case. Either the helicopter pilot didn't want to wait for the fixedwing to pass by so he kept his approach fast to "beat" him to the taxiway or he just didn't see him there or thought the fixed wing pilot would wait. In normal situations, planes exiting the runway will wait for aircraft on the taxiway to pass by. Why would it be any different for a helicopter? In any case the helicopter pilot is at fault and if there was an incident I can bet the FAA will go after the helicopter pilot. Why not land right on the ramp? Or just work out a plan on the radio with the other pilot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hovergirl Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Like Goldy said, the fixed wing guys, high or low wing aren't going to see those pesky helos... (okay I twisted Goldy's statement a bit to segue to the attached viedo) whoa. So the blind spot on one of those planes is like, all over? (cause in a heli it's right behine i.e. where that plane was). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pogue Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Hovergirl, in a tail dragger you have to zig-zag when you taxi. Vision isn't bad to the sides, but you're blind in front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MN Heli Flyer Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 whoa. So the blind spot on one of those planes is like, all over? (cause in a heli it's right behine i.e. where that plane was). The video you're referring to the airplane is clearly at fault. Some tailwheel airplanes like the one in this video do not have any visibilty directly in front of them. The proper procedure for this type of airplane is to do small s turns while they taxi. That way they can see ahead and know where they are going. In this case it is clear he did not do s turns or they would have seen the helicopter. In the other video the helicopter may have been above the wing of the airplane and not visible. The helicopter should have had seen the airplane in plenty of time. Looks like proof that not following safe procedures can be disastrous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Come on guys- havent you ever paid to see a "demolition derby", the last aircraft standing wins? In this case, I think the fixed wing has a greater chance of getting airborne than the 206 without a tail !He gets the trophy ! Honestly, can you imagine the guy calling his insurance company?? Uhhh, I think I taxied directly into a parked helicopter!!! Goldy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamer Posted February 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Come on guys- havent you ever paid to see a "demolition derby", the last aircraft standing wins? In this case, I think the fixed wing has a greater chance of getting airborne than the 206 without a tail !He gets the trophy ! Honestly, can you imagine the guy calling his insurance company?? Uhhh, I think I taxied directly into a parked helicopter!!! Goldy is that like when you break your limb because you rode your bicycle as fast as you could into the back of a parked moving truck? DOH! my mom is gonna be SO mad at me for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hovergirl Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Hovergirl, in a tail dragger you have to zig-zag when you taxi. Vision isn't bad to the sides, but you're blind in front. That's really good to know. Not that the guy in the parked helicopter could have done much, but it's good to know, and bear in mind, the limitations of your neighbors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amphibpilot Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) Ironically both topical and recent: http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?Content...1d118e4da7& Article does not mention the T-6's configuration when the collision occurred, only that it was taking off; the T-6 has notorious near-front visibility when in the 3-point attitude.No matter who has the right of way, in helicopter you will probably lose in event of a collision. Fly safely. Edited February 3, 2009 by amphibpilot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave7373 Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 I believe I recall reading that Air Traffic always has the right of way over ground traffic an trying to picture what that ment. That or i'm just going crazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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