Flight Training Financing

[jras312]

I am a 19 year old 'kid' who has been dreaming of becoming a helicopter pilot since I knew what they were! I have done tons and tons of research, have read forums on this site for countless hours, and I am just getting very anxious. I have had only three lessons (first three) so far in the past two months! By no means am I, or my family wealthy, although I am working up every penny I can manage to put toward training. Since I am young, I have barely any credit established, so Pilot Finance would be seemingly impossible, as well as an AOPA line of credit. I have thought about joining the service, but thats just not for me. I was just curious as to any other options that are out there. I live in West Des Moines, Iowa; suberb of Des Moines. We only have one training site in the whole state which is about 15 minutes away. They are not a part 141 school (yet) so all of the financing is very limitted. My mom lives out in Cypress, CA; which is about 5 minutes from LA Helicopters. I have thought about moving out there just to get financing through sallie mae, but they denied both my mom and my step dad as co-signers. Any information would be greatly appreciated. I am not a very patient person although it looks like a charicteristic I will be forced to develop! BTW this is my first post, and I do plan on going all the way through CFII. Any help would be awesome. Thanks!

[slick1537]

Join the party. I know this sucks to say, but if you can't get financing through them, you might stay living at home and get two jobs to save the money. Currently I am having trouble getting money to finish training (at the commercial level right now) and I contemplate doing what I just said.

[adam32]

Get one or two jobs, save as much money as you can, build credit, then go from there.

[heli.pilot]

If I were younger, and starting out in this economy, I'd join the military. Not only will they pay to train you but you'll have a steady job (and paycheck) at a time when jobs are very hard to come by. Aside from flight training, the military offers great training for future employment in areas such as management. If you look on the military forum here you'll see that some branches of the military are really wanting pilots right now. If I were young and had the chance to do it all over again, I'd join the military.

[jras312]

I guess I'm just skeptical to join the military because of my lack of understanding. I don't really know the whole drill as far as being in the military goes. I don't want to dedicate my life to the military, thats just not who I am. I guess if I did more research and looked into more I may think about it, but like I said, I'm not the type of guy who wants to dedicate most of their life to the military. A buddy of mine I went to high school with has his own mowing businiess, I may join up with him and see how that goes for paying for flight training. Thanks for all the info so far.

[MN Heli Flyer]

If I were younger, and starting out in this economy, I'd join the military. Not only will they pay to train you but you'll have a steady job (and paycheck) at a time when jobs are very hard to come by. Aside from flight training, the military offers great training for future employment in areas such as management. If you look on the military forum here you'll see that some branches of the military are really wanting pilots right now. If I were young and had the chance to do it all over again, I'd join the military.

 

 

I agree with heli-pilot if I were young enough I would join the military. They also pay for college and a degree may give you an edge on a job. There seems to be many advantages to going through the military but if it isn't for you then it may be very difficult. It is something you should think about long and hard before making your decision. Give it some thought.

[sam_iam]

Hello, I was in your situation about two years ago. I couldn't get a loan because of lack of credit. So I went to work and used credit cards for everything. There is a lot of info out there on how to build your credit as fast as possible. After almost one year I had saved enough and built my credit enough to get a loan to pay for my training. I also worked throughout my training which caused it to take about 12 months all together but it worked out. I also did not want to join the military so that's what I did. If you really want it you'll find a way. good luck

PM me for more info

Edited February 21, 2009 by sam_iam

[fry]

I don't want to dedicate my life to the military, thats just not who I am. I guess if I did more research and looked into more I may think about it, but like I said, I'm not the type of guy who wants to dedicate most of their life to the military. A buddy of mine I went to high school with has his own mowing businiess, I may join up with him and see how that goes for paying for flight training.

 

"...that's just not who I am..."??? You're 19, you couldn't possibly be much of anything...except maybe a former high school student.

 

But what you are on track to be is someone who looks for the easy quick way to get to what he wants. Here's a tip...you probably won't get where you want to be.

 

You won't be able to get any credit for flight training...regardless of what sales pitch the flight school gives you...and even if you could it is an incredibly dumb thing to do. A "mowing business"...oh yeah, that's a great career path.

 

I know, I know...I'm peeing on your "dream". So if all you want to hear is positive comments go listen to the salespeople...that's what they do, tell you what you want to hear.

 

If you really want to fly...which seems to be a rather limited "dream" at 19; you might trying stretching a little...then at least go talk to the military recruiters. It's not a bad life and it beats the hell out of working at some chump job while you're tansitioning to adulthood. Although, they'll probably tell you that your best chance to fly is to go to college first...which is also a lot of fun.

 

If you want a role model to guide you, how about Sully, the airline pilot who landed in the river. Years of training to prepare him to do what he did. But he didn't get there with an "I'll finance it with credit cards" mentality.

[heli.pilot]

Geez Fry, go easy on the guy will ya? He's just trying to find his way in life, the same way that you or I or anyone else was at 19.

 

jras312, a friend of mine is transitioning out of the military right now. He went in straight out of high school, and is 27 now. Just last week he landed a job with a large oil company, making very close to six figures. The company is literally bending over backwards to hire him. Why? Because he has the military experience that he does. Since his early to mid twenties he has been managing over a hundred staff. Not to mention the fact that the military paid for his degree, and paid him a healthy salary. He's younger than I am, and yet it would take me another decade to build just SOME of the experience that he has right now. I understand that you're not crazy about the idea, I wasn't either when I was 19 which is why I didn't join, but don't write off the military. Go talk to a few recruiters, and ask questions of the guys on the military forum here. If you're disciplined and hard working, the military will offer you opportunities for advancement that you will never find in the civilian world. All of this is a side note to the fact that they will pay for your flight training ($60,000) and give you training that you'll never get in the civilian world. If I were 19 right now, I'd do it in a heartbeat...

[jras312]

Fry- How would starting my own mowing business be taking the easy way out? Working my ass off 6 days a week doing yard work to reach my dream to become a heli pilot doesnt seem like taking the easy way out for me. I know the risks of going into this career field and I know that its not going to be easy to get there. How did you become a pilot? From the military? Who are you to tell me who I may or may not be as a person?

Heli.pilot- Thanks for all the info about your buddy who is just getting out of the military. I appreciate all the help, but being in the military for 7+ years just doesnt appeal to me, no matter what the reward would be. I wouldnt do it if I was guaranteed a million dollar salary, like I said before, its just not who I am. Some people would take that opportunity just like others would not, so I would appreciate it, fry, if you would chill out a little and respect my attempt to gain some knowlege on the career I have chosen. Thanks again all.

[jehh]

You'll have to forgive Fry, he doesn't think anyone should be a helicopter pilot, so don't take it personally...

[betr_thn_Icarus]

Jras312,

 

I hope that you won't give up however you do it. I always wanted to fly helicopters but the cost sort of killed it in my mind so I semi-gave up for a few years. After working a lot of construction, then equipment operating, then driving semi, then becoming an electronics engineer to get the hell out of construction I realized one thing. I just wanted to fly helicopters and thought about it literally every day. If you know it then you know it.

 

I tried applying to the WOFT (warrant officer flight training program) in the ARMY. You can, although somewhat rare, be accepted into the program as a civilian after a lengthy application. I tried for two years and hadn't gotten in yet so I tried the private way. I now have my private and close to a commercial. I decided the military wasn't for me either, at least not if I wasn't flying, and I wasn't going to sign up general enlisted to hope someone thought to choose me for helicopters. Looking back after becoming a cop anyway, I should have kept applying for that program to fly in the military but I'll still get to my goal eventually. I got my electronics degree so I would meet the requirements of the WOFT program.

 

I was flying once a week because it was what I could afford. Now flying is a little more demanding and I want to retain more information by flying more often right up to when I try to get a job so I have stopped flying to save that money until I can go all at once... maybe 8 to 10 flights a week or more. I reccomend if you can only afford to spend so much at a time to save until you have enough to do it all at once. Loans can be good or they could drive you to bankruptcy so be careful. Even if someone said they would finance it all for you realize that if you can't afford the loan it will kill you and make you miserable. It is very hard to get an unsecured (no collateral such as a house) loan that is that large even with good credit.

 

One of my flight instructors started flying at almost 50 and he was the best one I have had yet. I just think he wanted it very much and loved what he did more because of his struggle to get there.

 

Whatever you do don't give up and I'll be fighting to get there too. Maybe I'll see you in the air someday.

 

I noticed the 312 are you in Chicago?

[jras312]

no 312 is just a random number I choses LOL I am in des moines, Iowa. I appreciate all of the encouraging advice you are giving me, it really does mean a lot and helps me ten fold. I have been PMing sam.iam and he plans on purchasing a hiller to give lessons on in central cali at a discounted rate. I will just work my /\$$ off and save up every penny, then start training as often as I can. By no means will I ever give up, I am with you, flying is literaly all I think about! I will get there somehow no matter what I have to go through. I will most def see you in the air someday! thanks again!

[mechanic]

Jras312,

The military is not as bad as most would have you to think. Esp, the USAF and Navy. They are close as you can get to a normal job. I had one of those jobs in the USAF. Only monday morning meetings, no PT, off work everyday at 4:30 Mon-Fri's only, on standby every 3rd week, paid 30 day vacation every year, free college credit, and the list goes on.. Back when I was in I was free to keep my own PT schedule as long as I passed my random weight checks.

 

I promote the USAF, my bro is still in the USAFR does as well. But, I know more Navy than USAF and all other branches combined, I have co workers, uncles, cousin in law and daughters boy friend all navy. I don't like the idea of living on a boat for months at a time myself. I even turned 20 in bootcamp.

 

The lawn care business can be very hard, the equipment very expensive and competition undercutting your bids/prices. I know because I work for a JD Ag dealer and deal with all the commercial yard care owners in my area. It is very expensive to get into at first. You can easily spend 25- 75 thousand on equipment, not counting payroll, fuel/maint and insurance to name a few. You do need insurance, you never know when a mower blade or trimmer string is going to toss a rock thru a 1500 dollar double pane french door. Like what happened to one of my customers, who just happened to be working my in laws back yard.. A string trimmer pitched a rock into it. I am told the string trimmers are common to braking windows.

 

Anyways, you are at the one of the best places to do research, IMHO.. Vertical reference is my main stay. I really enjoy nearly everyone who is apart of the VR family. Use the search feature to help with the info.

 

Good luck with the decision.

[heli.pilot]

I was flying once a week because it was what I could afford. Now flying is a little more demanding and I want to retain more information by flying more often right up to when I try to get a job so I have stopped flying to save that money until I can go all at once... maybe 8 to 10 flights a week or more. I reccomend if you can only afford to spend so much at a time to save until you have enough to do it all at once. Loans can be good or they could drive you to bankruptcy so be careful. Even if someone said they would finance it all for you realize that if you can't afford the loan it will kill you and make you miserable. It is very hard to get an unsecured (no collateral such as a house) loan that is that large even with good credit.

This is good advice, especially the first half of the paragraph about saving up rather than flying once every week or two as you can afford it. You'll be much better of to wait until you have $1000 or $2000 saved, then go and fly a whole bunch over the course of a few days. If you only fly once every week or two you'll spend at least the first half of every flight just getting up to speed on things from your last flight.

[slick1537]

I don't think fry is actually a helicopter pilot. Just a real sour guy who got caught up in the silver state scandal.

[fry]

Owww, so sensitive.

 

I was just pointing out to the kid that committing to pay more than 200 grand over twenty years for entry level training to a limited occupational field is not a smart financial decision. I know, money isn't everything and live your dream, yada, yada, yada. I mean, putting aside all the Hollywood glamour nonsense, the job is that of an industrial equipment operator...and the market compensation is commensurate with that kind of activity. Always will be. Nothing wrong with that kind of work...salt of the earth, backbone of America kind of stuff...but a 19 year old might consider "dreaming" a little bigger.

 

Although it is probably all moot because the chances that financing will become available are slim to none. If he just wants to fly Cessnas are fun...or there's college and the military. Those are probably pretty much his only options. That pay-as-you-go over a very long period option probably requires more attention span than most 19 year olds can muster.

[jehh]

I was just pointing out to the kid that committing to pay more than 200 grand over twenty years for entry level training to a limited occupational field is not a smart financial decision.

 

Two points...

 

1. Most people are not going to end up paying that much. Using such a number is just spreading FUD and drama. We have several students on loans that will be a total of $130K over 15 years. The fact that YOU had a $200K 20 year loan doesn't mean most people get those.

 

2. Plenty of people spend as much getting a college degree they never use. While those have value in just existing, this is a heck of a lot of fun, and you only live once. I'm the first to tell people this isn't a financial decision, it is an emotional one, but then so are most major life decisions. It sure beats a lot of other jobs, that is for sure.

 

I know, money isn't everything and live your dream, yada, yada, yada. I mean, putting aside all the Hollywood glamour nonsense, the job is that of an industrial equipment operator...and the market compensation is commensurate with that kind of activity.

 

Yes, but flying a helicopter is more interesting than driving a garbage truck.

 

but a 19 year old might consider "dreaming" a little bigger.

 

Like what? Becoming a doctor or lawyer? I'm married to a doctor, it isn't any more glamorous than flying a helicopter.

 

Fly Safe!

[fry]

1. Most people are not going to end up paying that much. Using such a number is just spreading FUD and drama. We have several students on loans that will be a total of $130K over 15 years. The fact that YOU had a $200K 20 year loan doesn't mean most people get those.

 

So OK...$130k over 15 years, yes, that's MUCH better. And if we're going to speculate about each others motivations...don't you sell flight training?

 

2. Plenty of people spend as much getting a college degree they never use. While those have value in just existing, this is a heck of a lot of fun, and you only live once. I'm the first to tell people this isn't a financial decision, it is an emotional one, but then so are most major life decisions. It sure beats a lot of other jobs, that is for sure.

 

These are all the same ole sales pitches that have been used to sell flight training since the Wright brothers. And they do seem to be effective on 19 year olds and the naive and gullible.

 

A college education will benefit an individual's career even if it is not in the field they end up in. A CFII certificate is only good if an individual goes all the way to the magic thousand hours and gets a paycheck generating flying job. Anything short of that and all he's got is an expensive PPL that he will probably never be able to afford to use. It's a big gamble for $130k.

 

Yes, but flying a helicopter is more interesting than driving a garbage truck.

 

But my point was they both will pay about the same.

 

Like what? Becoming a doctor or lawyer? I'm married to a doctor, it isn't any more glamorous than flying a helicopter.

 

"Glamorous"...again with the sales pitch. It's an investment and a job. To really have fun flying one shouldn't do it for a living. Get the best paying career possible and do it as a hobby.

[IFLY]

Fry, I'm just curious...do you fly anything now?

 

Jerry

[Sparker]

Fry, you make this forum worth visiting.

[montu]

Jerry, Its useless fry wont answer any of those questions.

[heli.pilot]

jras312, don't let anyone tell you that your dream to be a helicopter pilot is inadequate. If that's what you want, go for it. Fry's logic would suggest that anyone who dreams of being a fire fighter or a teacher is also not dreaming big enough, yet those people are heros in my book. Go for it, just be sure to do your research.

[jehh]

So OK...$130k over 15 years, yes, that's MUCH better. And if we're going to speculate about each others motivations...don't you sell flight training?

 

Ok, I'll bite...

 

It is much better than your exaggerated numbers. If you are going to make a point, do so with the facts, not hyperbole.

 

Yes, I do sell flight training. I could make a lot more money selling a lot of other things. In fact, I used to, before getting into this business. It isn't for the money, that's for sure.

 

I wake up every day and love going to work. Hard to put a price on that.

 

A college education will benefit an individual's career even if it is not in the field they end up in.

 

Because your garbage truck driver needs it? College isn't for everyone. The idea that "everyone" should go to college is absurd, not everyone is cut out for that.

 

But my point was they both will pay about the same.

 

How many garbage truck drivers make $65K working two weeks a month?

[WHIRLYDUDE]

You are only 19 years old so whats the rush . Even if you could get finance how would you pay it off when finished training . Believe me its taken me years to get a ppl h and i am sure other people on this forum have stories like mine . I would suggest you start saving and concentrate on getting some kind of trade and work towards your goals over the next 5 to 10 years . Even then you will only be 29 at the most . I am sure its not what you want to hear and there is no magic way around it . But good luck and never ever give up your dream .