jfcorey Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 (edited) http://www.g2mil.com/V-22-Iraq.htm If I had any faith in the aircraft before, it's gone now. I am sure there are a lot of fanboys that will come running to defend the Osprey as the "future" of aviation, however I am curious if there are any real V-22 PILOTS on here that would challenge this article's findings. Edited February 24, 2009 by jfcorey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparker Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 (edited) My heart goes out to the families of the pilots who have died trying to make this thing a reality. If the thing didn't look so cool the program probably would have been shut down a long time ago. Edited February 24, 2009 by Sparker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamer Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 i look at it like this... in how many flight hours have there been how many v-22 crashes? what about Blackhawks or Jetrangers for that matter.... with flight, there's always the chance and every aircraft has its quirks... im sure it'll get better eventually... i hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfcorey Posted February 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 My heart goes out to the families of the pilots who have died trying to make this thing a reality. If the thing didn't look so cool the program probably would have been shut down a long time ago. I couldn't agree more. I truly believe that the V-22 is FUNDAMENTALLY flawed. There are no "bugs" that can be worked out of it. It is just a poor design. Here is another very interesting yet objective article by Dr. J. Gordon Leishman, Professor of Engineering at the University of Maryland and the proprietor of Rotor Systems Research, LLC, an aerospace consulting firm. http://www.rusi.org/downloads/assets/Leishman_0207_RDS.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfcorey Posted February 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 i look at it like this... in how many flight hours have there been how many v-22 crashes? what about Blackhawks or Jetrangers for that matter.... with flight, there's always the chance and every aircraft has its quirks... im sure it'll get better eventually... i hope I can't speak to the Blackhawk but as far as I know the Jet Ranger has one of the best safety records ever, not to mention the best autorotational characteristics of any helicopter. I would put that record against the V-22 anyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67november Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 The tilt rotor design has been around since the 50's and ALL of the designs have had significant problems.it all works in theory but when put into practice it does not measure up. http://www.tiltrotormech.com/tiltrotor_history.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin DBC Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 i look at it like this... in how many flight hours have there been how many v-22 crashes? what about Blackhawks or Jetrangers for that matter.... with flight, there's always the chance and every aircraft has its quirks... im sure it'll get better eventually... i hope I'll definitely agree that every aircraft has it's quirks. In the 80's, no one even wanted to fly in the Blackhawks. They ended up earning the name 'lawn dart' due to a issue they were having (not sure how much detail I'm allowed to get into on that) causing them to suddenly and unrecoverably lose control. Once the problem was discovered, it was easily remedied. The problem with the V-22 is not a quirk, however. It's a flawed design to start with... Especially for a combat aircraft. They are EXTREMELY vulernable upon landing making them next to useless for tactical troop transport. From what I heard, the only thing they were using them for was shuttling from one secure area to another. Here's what kills me... This thing has been operating on real world missions and we scrapped the Comanche? Military logic... Scrap the good ideas, let the bad ones continue to kill our servicemembers and hamper our combat readiness. I hope someone at a higher pay grade than me knows something that I don't know about these programs.... J- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelliBoy Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Reading a couple articles on the internet does not make one an expert or neccessarily even informed. This is all opinion. I'm not a v22 fanboy either, a replacement for the CH-53 (not the k model can kicking) wouldve been a far more prudent home for these funds and coulve resulted in true high speed/ heavylift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeloPitts Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 I wouldn't believe everything you read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfcorey Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 (edited) I wouldn't believe everything you read. I guess I am just wondering how a reasonable person with an elementary understanding of helicopters can see the V-22 as anything other than a complete disaster. I'm beginning to think there aren't any Osprey pilots here. Edited February 25, 2009 by jfcorey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkhorse Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 My Director is a retired V-22/MH-53/B-52 driver, he loved them but then again he was in charge of the Air Forces fielding of the V-22.Another pilot at work has a son in the Marines that flies V-22's, he came from CH-46's and the same word "love" is used. Personally as a program I think they are a disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Coaster Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 So given the very troubled history of the V22... would you ever get into a B609 should they ever see production? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jehh Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Hard to say, given that they are not out yet. Probably, just because I love things that hover so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfcorey Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 So given the very troubled history of the V22... would you ever get into a B609 should they ever see production?Sure, I'd sit in it. I would not fly in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c17worker Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 As a Boeing guy, I have heard much debate about this whole issue, and I have an "ex" sister in law that was a director on the program. I'm not in a position to really weigh in on the contributions the aircraft has made, but seems to me its going to need years to even answer that. The question is at what cost - between the excessive development costs, the lives lost and the maintenance over the long run, it has to be a real question. Perhaps all that money would have been better spent poured into improving more proven technologies. It kind of seems a "point-to-prove" platform - in other words, just because something can be done, does not always mean it should be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linc Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 I personally witnessed at least two flights of V-22s arrive in Baghdad. One in the daytime, and one at night (watched them in my thermal sight). I've also talked with other pilots in my Squadron who had also seen them arrive in Baghdad at other times. So, the assertion that they didn't go to Baghdad is bunk. After that, I couldn't stand to read much more drivel. I'm not going to defend the V-22, but I will throw the BS flag where appropriate. I also discount heavily for grammar and spelling errors in writing purported to be by subject matter experts who are attempting to make a reasoned argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin DBC Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 I personally witnessed at least two flights of V-22s arrive in Baghdad. One in the daytime, and one at night (watched them in my thermal sight). I've also talked with other pilots in my Squadron who had also seen them arrive in Baghdad at other times. So, the assertion that they didn't go to Baghdad is bunk. After that, I couldn't stand to read much more drivel. I'm not going to defend the V-22, but I will throw the BS flag where appropriate. I also discount heavily for grammar and spelling errors in writing purported to be by subject matter experts who are attempting to make a reasoned argument. Anyone who states that the V-22 stayed at "the most secure location in iraq" and didn't ever go into baghdad because they didn't want it to take fire obviously hasn't been to BIAP. I'd be quite suprized to find a more secure location in Iraq. The website seems like it's written by someone who has a grudge and is coming up with their own BS to fill in the blanks about what they don't know. There are plenty of VALID arguments against the V-22 that could have replaced some of the "consiracy theory" style assumptions that are on there. J- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmsemel Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Pure BS, nothing more. The V-22 is a good aircraft and in time and operational experience it will become a great aircraft. The Wright Brothers had a mountain of problems with a little invention called the airplane. The Brit's and the Marines had problems with that AV-8, took time write the book on it if you will, If you were anywhere near MCAS Cherry Point in the mid to late 1970's you would know. The V-22 gets a bum rap, airplanes and helicopters break, pilots wreck them. To go an say the aircraft is junk because of two accidents, if that is the case then we would not fly at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfcorey Posted February 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 (edited) Perhaps all that money would have been better spent poured into improving more proven technologies. It kind of seems a "point-to-prove" platform - in other words, just because something can be done, does not always mean it should be done. Couldn't agree more... Also I agree that there are so many VAILD arguments against the V-22 that we should start there. Gmsemel, the Harrier is not the greatest military marvel either but going back to the V-22, here are the VAILD arguments: Lack of autorotative capability difficult to operate close to the ground in helicopter mode-watch this: Dangerous hyrdaulic system Fuselage is not crash-worthy airframe is flammable tilt-rotor is inherently unstable highly vulnerable to VRS both symmetrically and asymmetrically as well as snap rolling, see more here: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/sys...ft/v-22-vrs.htm V-22 must land extremely slow and have much greater seperation between aircraft than helicopters when landing in an LZ, dispelling the myth that it can land quicker than a helicopter. This video shows what I mean, this is ridiculous! I could shoot all 3 of them down in that amount of time! Here's a question for you. Explain to me recovery actions for this scenario: "The V-22 has the potential to enter high rates of descent at high nacelle angles with low airspeed. This condition occurs very rapidly with little to no warning to the pilots. In simulation at 95 degrees nacelle, 39 KCAS, and 0 feet per minute rate of descent (ROD), pulling the thrust control lever (TCL) full aft caused an immediate descent exceeding the 800 feet per minute NATOPS WARNING. If forward TCL is applied at this point, an uncontrolled flight condition is possible. Within 3 seconds, the simulator exhibited in excess of 3,000 fpm ROD. " All opinion and personal feelings aside, I think the V-22 is a complete waste of tax payer money for everything shown above. Edited February 26, 2009 by jfcorey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linc Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 (edited) Comments deleted as not worth the effort to waste the time typing. Edited February 26, 2009 by Linc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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