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Night Vision Goggles


Heliboss

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Hey guys,

 

I'm interested in logging some NVG time. I haven't found anything in the FARs that address NVG use in civil aviation. I have seen a few documents that talk about future implementation of NVG regulation but thats it. Is there anything stopping me from buying some old gen 1 NVGs grabbing a safety pilot and logging some hours? Anyone have experience with these things?

 

Thanks

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You need formal training in their use. There are some physiological aspects as well as operational aspects that you need to fully understand.

 

The aircraft interior lighting also has to modified to be compatable with the goggles.

 

NVG's are great, but, they can also give you false sense of security.

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I just started progressing with NVGs. I would recomend either taking an actual NVG progression course or just wait until you get a job that will train you up. Goggles are really helpful, but they can create a lot of issues if you don't know what you're doing... Especialy the gen 1's.

 

J-

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They're becoming fairly common in EMS, and it's a long and torturous process to get them approved and keep the training up. That's Part 135, though, and I have no idea what the Part 91 requirements are. You might contact the FSDO of your choice and ask for an opinion, and if you don't like it, try another one. Just remember, the FSDO where you get caught has jurisdiction.

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I agree that threre is a lot more to consider than just grabbing a set of Gen-1 goggles and a safethy pilot. If you are the only one on goggles, and you are landing in an unlit area, and have a goggle failure, what are you going to do? I'm not even sure I would want to fly with Gen-1 goggles. You will need some ground training on what to expect while flying and how you need to adjust both your outside and inside scan. I wouldn't even consider it without formal training and appropriate equipment.

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I would just go do it. A friend of mine has wanted to do that with his older gen 3's in his L4, but we haven't gotten around to it.

 

The lights on the panel will be a big distraction.j

 

Marc D.

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I would just go do it. A friend of mine has wanted to do that with his older gen 3's in his L4, but we haven't gotten around to it.

 

The lights on the panel will be a big distraction.j

 

Marc D.

 

 

Heh... I'm not sure what the regs say about it, but give some serious consideration to what people on here who have operated under goggles are saying. It's not as cut and dry as you think. The gen 1 goggles had a lot of problems to begin with. I'm assuming that you haven't had ground instruction either and if not, you're not familiar with the operation of the NVGs or how much they will amplify visual illusions. Then if you're going up with a "safety pilot", who I'm assuming would be unaided, what's going to happen if you have an NVG failure at a critical phase of flight? Going through a decent course will teach you these concepts and get you familiarized with an experienced instructor guiding you through the process. Even if the FAA would be okay with this kind of operation, it doesn't mean it's a good idea.

 

J-

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Aviation Specialties Unlimited in Boise are big NVG guys... they probabally train most of the police departments and civilian types... you can go there and get training if you like. They have some stc's for aircraft nvg conversion... I would start with them and ask faa later.

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Heh... I'm not sure what the regs say about it, but give some serious consideration to what people on here who have operated under goggles are saying. It's not as cut and dry as you think. The gen 1 goggles had a lot of problems to begin with. I'm assuming that you haven't had ground instruction either and if not, you're not familiar with the operation of the NVGs or how much they will amplify visual illusions. Then if you're going up with a "safety pilot", who I'm assuming would be unaided, what's going to happen if you have an NVG failure at a critical phase of flight? Going through a decent course will teach you these concepts and get you familiarized with an experienced instructor guiding you through the process. Even if the FAA would be okay with this kind of operation, it doesn't mean it's a good idea.

 

J-

 

 

I'm not sure if you were talking to me or not, but I've been flying with goggles for almost 5 years now.

 

Marc D.

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I'm not sure if you were talking to me or not, but I've been flying with goggles for almost 5 years now.

 

Marc D.

 

 

Got the wrong impression from your post, but it was more geared towards the original poster. Obviously it's different if you have an experienced NVG pilot in the aircraft flying under goggles, but it didn't sound like that was the case with the original post.

 

J-

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aside from the military, obviously, is there any employer that will hire you and give you the OTJ turbine transition, and NVG training??? i was told by an ems pilot here in tucson that flying the tours of the grand canyon, whatever company that is, will give you both... any truth or facts from anyone???

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Heliboss,

 

I know what the regs say. Careless and reckless operation if something happens. There is a school in West Palm Beach, Florida that provides NVG training. I believe the name is West Palm Beach Helicopters. I would highly recommend you seek some formal training Vs strapping on some gen 1's and going out for a ride. Noncompatible cockpit, NVG failure, illusions, flying into low visibility without recognizing it...small list of reasons for you to reconsider a self-taught course. I don't believe the FAR's cover anything regarding NVG's as of now, but the FAA is in the process of incorporating their use into the regs. They're a great tool, and you will not be too far into your training before you understand why training is a must. Besides the obvious (military and law enforcement) I believe there are some ems operators that use NVG's.

 

Good Luck

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello everyone, it's been a long time since I've posted here but this thread caught my eye. I've taken the Night Concepts NVG course at West Palm Beach, and it was a great program.

 

First in my humble opinion, you really need formal training to use any kind of NVGs while operating. second I really believe that you need a second pilot to back you up. Those NVGs are awesome tools for night flight but they severly reduce your field of vision (I want to say 20 Degrees?), and you really need to be good on your scan. The NVGs are focused to infinity and because of that you cannot see the instrument panel in front of you, it'll just look very blurry. So your head is always on a swivel and you're eyes are darting to the instruments. Another set of eyes and hands are really important in case you miss something or should your NVGs fail during a critical manuver.

 

I've been signed off in the use of NVGs during night flight, but there are currency requirments also which is hard to keep up unless you own your own set and use them on a regular basis.

 

The course definitly increased my night flying confidence and if you ever have the oppourtunity to get the course I would recommend it. Nothing's more crazy and fun as performing a 180 auto to an unlit field with 0% illumination!

 

I'm still new to NVG flying so if there's any errors in my reply please correct me.

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I can't comment on flying with NVG's but I can with driving with them and tactical movements on field excercises while on active duty. Field of view is definately limited and depth perception is really poor until you have a lot of experience with them. What seems like a shallow dip can be a 2 foot hole that'll break your leg and what appears to 5' feet in front of your vehicle can be 30' or more. And the exact opposite may be true. Celestial lighting is another consideration. In the darkest of nights the goggles are not as effective because there is little to no ambient lighting to enhance. And distance...with the models of goggles I used (AN-PVS7's) which are pretty dated anymore really limited clear and focused sight to about 1/2 mile but 1/4 mile and closer offered the best acuity.

 

Long story short, I agree... go get trained before flying with them.

 

Michael

Edited by flewthecoupe
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I can't comment on flying with NVG's but I can with driving with them and tactical movements on field excercises while on active duty. Field of view is definately limited and depth perception is really poor until you have a lot of experience with them. What seems like a shallow dip can be a 2 foot hole that'll break your leg and what appears to 5' feet in front of your vehicle can be 30' or more. And the exact opposite may be true. Celestial lighting is another consideration. In the darkest of nights the goggles are not as effective because there is little to no ambient lighting to enhance. And distance...with the models of goggles I used (AN-PVS7's) which are pretty dated anymore really limited clear and focused sight to about 1/2 mile but 1/4 mile and closer offered the best acuity.

 

Long story short, I agree... go get trained before flying with them.

 

Michael

 

I definitly agree, We didn't use the PVS-7 which is basicaly a monocular vision scope we used the NVAG-6 (I believe similar to the AN/AVS-6) binocular NVGs which definitly helps with depth preception. I'd never fly NVG unless it's binocular style.

 

Just a correction to my earlier post the NVAG-6 provides 40 degrees of view if adjusted properly.

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The difference between the monocular goggles (PVS-7 and PVS-14) and the AN/AVS-6 goggles are like night and day. When I was on the ground, I used 14's (for some reason I never got stuck with 7's... thank God). Even the newest generation left somethign to be desired. When I started goggle training for aviation, I assumed that it wouldn't be much better. However, even with zero illumination, you still get a pretty clear picture of what's going on. It still takes some getting used to and you have to be very aware of some of the optical illusions you can experience, but it's nothing like the monocular systems.

 

J-

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