Should I say this during a job interview (for CFI)

[franknyc]

In anticipation of passing my cpl/CFI within the next few months, I have identified only 3 flight schools where I could possibly work. First though, just a little background...

 

I picked-up RW flying recently--and later in life. I would love to be a part-time CFI only; leaving my full-time job is out of the questions (I can't afford to). I also cannot re-locate (bec. of job and family)-- so you see, my choices are not much. There is one flight-school in particular that would work-out for me (I flew with them for a total of 6-hours just for a change-of-pace). Once I have my tickets, I plan on approaching them for a part-time job; I will even bring in my own students.

If I can't get a job here (or at the other two schools) I will have no choice other than to buy my own helicopter and start my own (I would hate to do this and be all alone; I rather be part of a bigger school). The only problem is, I would have to locate myself in the same airport as the flight-school where I would like to work is located. They only have 2 helicopters and business doesn't seem too good. I guess my questions is (to get to the point):

How do I tell them to hire me (and allow me to bring my own students so not to compete with their other instructors) or else I set-up shop right next door with a brand new ship at lower prices?

[Gomer Pylot]

You don't. If you threaten them, your chances of being hired approach nil. I wouldn't even mention it. You get hired or you don't, but the interview should be positive, not negative. Emphasize that you have prospective students that you will bring, and let them figure out what might happen if they don't hire you on their own.

[helonorth]

Ultimatums rarely (ok, never) go over well at job interviews.

[1HeliCFI]

Franknyc, I strongly encourage you to NOT to go with the "hire my or else" approach. I also believe that you need to think for a LONG time before starting another school at the same airport. If the existing school is good enough that you would consider working there and they are not busy that tells me the current market is not good there. If they have two helicopters that are not busy, what makes you think adding another at that airport would work. Working at a flight school part time is possible, trying to run a flight school part time not something I would try. Please do your reseach before buying a helicopter, call around about getting insurance to instruct. I don't mean to be an a..hole or pee on your parade, I am just trying to help you make good choices.

[jehh]

I picked-up RW flying recently--and later in life. I would love to be a part-time CFI only

 

So would a lot of people, however it is hard to do this since you have to accommodate the schedules of your students.

 

It can be done, and many people do it, so don't feel it isn't possible.

 

; leaving my full-time job is out of the questions (I can't afford to).

 

Just to be the advocate... sure you can, you just choose not to. Something everyone should think about when it comes to this career, you may not get back the lifestyle you're used to for a few years.

 

There is one flight-school in particular that would work-out for me (I flew with them for a total of 6-hours just for a change-of-pace). Once I have my tickets, I plan on approaching them for a part-time job

 

If that is who you want to work for, why aren't you flying with them?

 

I will even bring in my own students.

 

Ahh, music to a school's ears...

 

If I can't get a job here (or at the other two schools) I will have no choice other than to buy my own helicopter and start my own.

 

Nothing wrong with that idea, so long as making money is not your goal. If building hours and flight experience is the goal, this can work if you have the financial means.

 

The only problem is, I would have to locate myself in the same airport as the flight-school where I would like to work is located.

 

So?

 

They only have 2 helicopters and business doesn't seem too good. I guess my questions is (to get to the point): How do I tell them to hire me (and allow me to bring my own students so not to compete with their other instructors) or else I set-up shop right next door with a brand new ship at lower prices?

 

You don't, that is a threat and would end almost any interview.

 

You just offer to teach part time and to bring your own students, many schools will let you do this.

[gft]

Apply and interview with the established school.

If you're lucky eough to be hired approach the job with honor and a good work ethnic. Both you and your employer will prosper from your efforts. It has been my experience that what goes around comes around. Threatening to undermine the present school will most likely end in failure for yourself. The high road is the better road taken.

 

gft

[Falcon1184]

No offense, just my honest opinion, but I'd laugh at you and tell you to take a hike. Reason being, because I'd know that if I didn't hire you, you wouldn't "buy a helicopter and set up shop next door". If you can't afford to leave your current job to pursue a helicopter career, I doubt your going to just buy a helicopter and start your own flight school. I'm not trying to be a dick or anything and dont take it wrong. I'm just talking from the employers point of view. They aren't going to take you seriously if you come across like that, and rightfully so.

[franknyc]

Obviously, I do not mean it as a threat, but given my situation, it is my intention to do the following. I'm going through all the training for cpl/cfi and after all the training is over and done with, if my only option is to buy an r-22 and flight instruct, then that's what I will do. Had I been younger things would have different...but the mortgage/bills/kids and wife will not allow me to move or do this full-time. Given the cost of insurance, maintenance. etc... if I can break-even, I'll be happy.

Edited March 18, 2009 by franknyc

[Justin DBC]

Obviously, I do not mean it as a threat, but given my situation, it is my intention to do the following. I'm going through all the training for cpl/cfi and after all the training is over and done with, if my only option is to buy an r-22 and flight instruct, then that's what I will do. Had I been younger things would have different...but the mortgage/bills/kids and wife will not allow me to move or do this full-time. Given the cost of insurance, maintenance. etc... if I can break-even, I'll be happy.

 

No offense, but do you really think you're going to be able to stay competitive with a school that has experienced instructors if you just hit your CFI? Hopefully you have a better business plan than what it sounds like, because it just doesn't seem realistic. If it was, I'd take out a VA loan and go that route myself... As would many other people. The market sucks right now and inexperience is not something people look for in a flight school.

 

J-

[Wesp]

How about getting the licenses first. Contrary to what most people think you can't buy them you have to work hard for them. The problem I see with the way you're presenting yourself here is, it has to be done your way, or else... That attitude won't help you much in aviation, better to be humble (especially as a low-timer).

 

If you have a job where you make much money, you shouldn't even consider going in to helicopter flying, even when you have a 1000+ hours, you won't make much money. So why go through all the BS.

 

If you want to start a flightschool with less than 300 hours, you will be paying a very high insurance premium, it gets cheaper if you have a 1000 hours. With 200 hours it will be very, very hard to find an insurance company in the first place.

[copterkeith06]

Franknyc,

 

Do you have any idea how many pilots look at this site ? Looking for a job, looking for answers everyday ?

I can't believe that the answers you received to your silly ass question were so easy on you. I tried not to reply but, I have to tell you how arrogant & ridiculous your question, statement, whatever you want to call it was.

Lots of us are busting our butts to get into the industry. Eating whatever, sleeping wherever, in most cases not making squat for a pay check, all waiting to get that big break. And if you don't get the job ( hobby ) you want by giving some poor guy trying to make a living a ultimatum, you'll just whip out your check book, buy a helicopter, move in next door, and try to put someone out of business that probably busted their butt to get there.

No matter how you look at it, it's give me the job or else, and it's arrogant. You sir need to log onto just helicopters and read the post about integrity.

If you want a part time job with that school, then finish getting the ratings you don't even have yet with them. Then maybe you'll get that job.

 

You don't ever want to burn a bridge in the wonderful small world of rotorwing flight !

 

 

Sincerely,

Keith

[K-38]

One of the worst posts I have seen on this site. "Hire me or I will put you out of business" is very unimpressive. I think you should bring it up in the interview so they know just what kind of a man you really are.

Edited March 19, 2009 by K-38

[rotorblade]

I think you guys are being little too fast here.

Nobody here knows about this school inhouse practices.Neither we know if they have good or bad business because of what?Instructor availability,maintanace down time issues,bad customer/student relations etc.,you got the picture.

Maybe what they need in todays economy is different approach lets say starting with new/different instructors who are more so to bring new students versus an istructor whos been there for 10 years and just waiting for new students to come by.

It is like a new realstate agent after being denied by"century21" opens his own agency next door and brings his own clients.If he does it right, I will go to him and so will you.Whats wrong with that?It is all about business and customer relations.

If you think you can do better ,power to you.

[Justin DBC]

It is like a new realstate agent after being denied by"century21" opens his own agency next door and brings his own clients.If he does it right, I will go to him and so will you.Whats wrong with that?It is all about business and customer relations.

If you think you can do better ,power to you.

 

 

I'm calling BS on this reply. This guy wants to work for the company he's talking about, so if they are a bad company or have crappy business practices, why is he applying with them and saying he really wants to work with them?

 

Also, the analogy you are giving is flawed. A real estate agent isn't teaching people how to fly. I'm kinda mixed on having people with 200 hours teaching in the first place, but when they are the primary instructors without a chief instructor above them? That is unsafe, irresponsible, and will not attract any business. What makes you think that someone who is going to try to pull that crap on another business is going to have better business practices when he starts his own flight school anyways?

 

Stand in line with everyone else. I'm prepared to relocate to get a crappy CFI job. If you are only trying to get a job at one place and not putting in the leg work to find something else as a back-up... Employers are probably going to find someone a bit more dedicated that they want to hire anyways.

 

Sheesh... other people are making me be more harsh on this guy than I originally intended. Hopefully he got the basic message that he should not only not threaten the company, but probably scrap the flight school idea until he gets some more experience under his belt or finds an experienced chief instructor to ensure that everything is conducted propperly.

 

J-

[rotormandan]

Had I been younger things would have different...but the mortgage/bills/kids and wife will not allow me to move or do this full-time. Given the cost of insurance, maintenance. etc... if I can break-even, I'll be happy.

 

 

I believe you have nothing but good intentions. The problem though is if you can't relocate then what are you going to do after you build your time whether with your own 22 or with the nearby school? You'll most likely still have to relocate for the next job and you still won't be making much $ (though you'll make more than cfi wages). If you can afford to buy a 22 to cfi part time to "break even" then I suggest you buy a 22 or something else and just fly recreationally. No worries.

[rollthbns]

I tried really hard to stay quiet.................

 

First of all let me wish you success. Second, allow me to point out something. As an instructor working for the school I attended, I notice someting about your approach that you might wish to reconsider. Many of us are instructing as a means of "building time", but it is so VERY important to not treat it as a simple time building excercise. Your goal should be to help guide, mold and shape new pilots who value excellence and safety. Encourage them to achieve more than you did, and pass exams with higher scores than you did. Add additional attributes to their flight training such as integrity and work ethic. If this is your focus, then you will build hours. Guard against treating your students as stepping stones.

 

In addition, I think adopting this same mentality towards your prospective employer would serve you well. The owner has taken on considerable risk in opening his business, and the opportunity for employment is not owed to us, even if we did all of our training at one place. Of course, you can take that risk and open your own school too!

 

If you do get hired, treat your employer and the business with the respect it deserves. Today, it is very difficult to get a CFI job outside of the school in which you trained. I know MANY graduates at my school who were not fortunate enough to have that opportunity due in part to the economic climate. I think it is important that you appreciate any opportunity that comes your way, and always do your best throughout your career to return those opportunities to others when possible.

 

I will get off of the soap box now....... Just remember to help as many people as possible get what they want, and you will get what you want.

 

One more thing, about the proposed leverage you were going to bring to bear at your interview.. definitely take the advice others have offered here and leave it out of the equation. I would even suggest working to eliminate that thought process altogether, as it will only serve to destroy your career and your success.

 

Good luck!

[helipilotm]

I would reccomend not saying anything about you wanting to buy a helicopter and set up shop that will only go bad. My question to you is why do you want to fly? Is it for fun or do you actually want to make a career out of this. If you are going to do it just for fun then buy your own helicopter and fly whenever wherever you want. If your not willing to relocate and take a pay cut stop now. This industry requires that, especialy for a low timer.

 

Another point I want to add is your going to have a hard time breaking even with no experience. Insurance is going to be through the roof. Second your going to have a hard time finding students that want to come to a new school with one CFI and one helicopter. As a newly minted CFI in my opinion you need somebody to mentor you with some actual dual given. There are alot of problems that dont come up in the books. If you dont have some knowledge you will just be wasting the students hours. If this is something you want to do for a career you are going to have to do whatever it takes to gain hours/experience if not there are 100 people waiting right behind you that are willing to do whatever.Sorry to be so negative but it is not a forgiving industry. My .02

[500E]

JDBC

I am with you regarding the 200hour CFI a bit like the blind leading the blind.

Maintenance can be a problem for a owner instructor,low hour pilot, again without the experience, or finance, there is always something that requires MONEY.

I feel that a lot of schools fold due to unforeseen maintenance costs \ down time especially with single ships.

As for leaving them with the feeling you would start up next door if not employed, the best of luck close the door on the way out.

If you want to find a way for others to pay for your hobby, find a different hobby.

Teaching people to fly helicopters is a serious business not a hobby

[clay]

changed my mind on my response.

 

I agree with this guys idea, don't mention it in an interview. but if they don't hire you, and you have the means, start a company.

Edited March 23, 2009 by clay

[DAWg134]

Just a thought - what about offering to purchase the newer aircraft and provide it on a leaseback arrangement if they find you to be an acceptable CFI.

 

It seems to be a win-win situation since they will expand their fleet by 50% with no up-front investment (or risk). This provides them with an opportunity to potentially expand their business base (assuming that the locale will support increased training).

 

In turn, you not only benefit by inclusion into a bigger customer base, you will also have access to two other helicopters whenever yours is down for maintenance.

 

But... first things first - get the ticket before you talk about getting on the ride.

[tiercel]

As a tangent to the previous comment about a lease-back arrangement, you could buy one of those "Flyit" simulators and lease it to the flight school in exchange for work, if they don't already have one. It would be a lot less maintenance and insurance than a helicopter, but you wouldn't be able to build time. The advantage would be that the school could use the simulator to attract more students looking for instrument ratings.

[Falcon1184]

If you actually do it, it'll be hard to be successful with only one helicopter. People pay good money to learn to fly. They don't like to hear the only helicopter is down for annuals, maintenance, repairs, ect. on a perfect weekend for flying. If someone has the money, wants to fly, but can't, they will go where they can. Having one helicopter just sounds like living on the edge of going out of business.