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2 Super Quick Questions


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Hi..hoping to find someone who knows helicopters backwards and forwards to answer really 2 basic questions --- amazingly enough I could know find the answer on yahoo/google, so thought this would be ag ood place to ask.

 

My wife and I are looking at a ranch property with a helipad. The current owner is using a small Bell Jet Ranger, but it could easily land whatever helicopter we chose and found a pilot for. However, we are planning to have children shortly and my wife was wondering..

 

a) can you take infants/toddlers on a helicopter safely ? or do they fight the headsets or earplugs or is it simply not safe under any circumstance ( believe it or not, could not find the answer anywhere by googling.

 

B) is there "such a thing" as a helicopter that doesn't require headsets for a passenger - sometimes in movies I've seen a Sikorsky 76 and it never seems like anyone is wearin ga headset - is that possible ? or is that just "the movies" and not reality.

 

If you happen to have a minute and know the answer or point me in the right direction, would apprecite it..

 

Marc

southern cali

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I've seen lots of infants on helicopters. earplugs work well on infants. Earmuffs on older kids. It all depends on how they react to each.

As far as helicopters without headsets, yes they have them. For the rich & famous. Sound proofing, vip interior. If you want quiet & can afford your own chopper, go for a Eurocopter with a fenostron tailrotor. Nice & quiet.

 

Keith

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There are some child headsets......

 

Here's one: http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&a...product_id=1369

 

And four more: http://www.skygeek.com/searchresult.html?c...ildren+Headsets

 

Ear plugs or one of those compact airline style ANR headphones (Bose) if those headsets are still too big.

 

Believe it or not, but the it's really not that loud inside if you have the doors on and the windows closed. You still would want some sort of ear protection for a infant/child, but it's really not that loud.

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thanks for the info on the headsets and earplugs - at least I know it can be safe - but is there one particular VIP executive spec'd helicopter where you wouldn't even require the earplugs at all ? - Keith suggested the Eurocopter and I've been reading about their super quiet performance - something called the "iso quiet cocoon" tech - but then sikorsky says their 76 is the quietest - any comments ?

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Another thought, although there are very knowledgeable people and they can give you alot of advice... maybe you should check with an audiologist who specializes in childrens hearing too. Like some people say here, the noise may not be that bad...and there are comments about what sets to use and ear plugs.. but... if you can afford a helicopter, you can afford to speak to a specialist too, righto

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Hi..hoping to find someone who knows helicopters backwards and forwards to answer really 2 basic questions ---

Marc

southern cali

 

All questions about helicopters can be answered "backwards and forwards" but also, "side to side"! LOL

 

rotorrodent

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I'm not too sure what either the EC's or the S76 sound like from the inside. But if you take them from the outside, the S76 is by far the noisiest of the two. Living and working around the New York area you come to know the racket that the S76 tail rotor produces all too well. So, if neighbor complaints and petitions aren't your thing, stay away from the S76. Although I hear the new D model is going to be one pimp-ass ride!!!

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First off...HOLY CRAP, if you can even consider looking at owning a private S76, I commend you on making all the right decisions through life! :) PM me if you're hiring hahaha ;)

 

Now, to answer your questions, yes there are carseats that are actually airline certified (or something along those lines) get one that says that and make sure it is well secured in the aircraft and it will be perfectly safe.

 

As far as a helicopter quiet enough to not need headsets, I fly EC130's (Eurocopter) every day and can tell you that although they are VERY quiet from the outside to the people that are dealing with you flying by (due to the enclosed tail rotor design, about 40% quieter than a conventional tail rotor), they are plenty loud on the inside. Too loud to be safe for an infants ears and too loud to be safe for an adults ears under constant exposure. There may be a way to quiet it down with soundproofing but I am not aware of any. There are also LOTS of windows composing the cabin so there is no way to deaden sound through them.

Maybe look into an EC120 if you want to keep it quiet around neighbors (same tail rotor design). They are a decent machine as long as you're not looking to haul LOTS of weight, people or operate in high DA (humidity, heat, altitude) which in SoCal it shouldn't be a problem. They are also pretty sweet looking so you get style points for sure :D

AIR_EC120_Shoreline_lg.jpg

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Marc, several of the VIP ships are much quieter inside than the utility style ships that most here fly. I would take a serious look at the A119. Here's a pix and link to one for sale, just to give you an example.

 

http://www.avbuyer.com/aircraftsales/Aircr...umberPerPage=10

 

Just 3 of many out there. If you are serious, you could find one or two in the US and go take a couple flights.

 

If you have never flown in a helo before, I might suggest you and your wife go up a few times to make sure that 'it's for you". Everyone I have ever taken up, even the skeptics, all loved it and want to go again, but everyone is different. The sensations are different, and an A119 is not a small investment.

 

I highly recommend a flight along Malibu at sunset! Hey, if you have to do your due diligence, it might as well be over Malibu!!

 

Good Luck,

 

Goldy

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I just wanted to take a moment and say thank you to all the replies. I am 100% shocked that so many people took the time to read my question and write a reply - it was very cool. I really am getting the impression from reading many posts that helicopter pilots seem to be like "one big extended family" willing to help each other out --- it's nice to see - in world ... where most people don't even hold the door open for anyone anymore.

 

The comment on the EC helicopters being quieter on the outside than one would think on the inside..was pretty revealing. It never occurred to me that if its quiet outside, it would not be the same inside.

 

At least I have some basic info to start reading and 'googling ' with -- and if we decide to buy the property in socal with the helipad, I wont' sound like a total 'idiot' when talking to ppl about helicopters.

 

I didn't realize teh Sikorksky 76 was so "neighbor unfriendly" - I guess I really need to do my homework about what I could get away with (neighbor wise ) - all I know for a fact is the current owner uses a Bell 206 B3. - so however loud that is... the neighbors obviously are okay with it. I wonder if the Sikorsky 76 is "that" much louder.

 

anyway..thanks for the info..I'll keep reading and seeing what might work for us..

 

thanks,

Marc

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The car seat deliema would be easy to take care off. All you want to do is make sure the seat is approved for aviation use. It will state so on the car seat and should on the box when you go shopping for one. I have flown many a passenger who brought a car seat along.

 

Going to an audiologist is a good idea. They would be more prepared to offer better tips on hearing protection for kids, of whom tend to be more sensitive than adults.

 

I wouldn't dismiss the EC130 quite yet. It is one of the quietiest aircraft out there right now(outside). An exception could be the MD502 Notar. This aircraft doens't have a tailrotor which is where most of the noise comes from. If you were to compare the Jetranger, Astar, EC130 and even the A119 you will be suprised what you will come up with.

 

The Jet Ranger is a good soild and proven helicopter. Some issues will be had with weight. I am guessing you'll be bringing baggage along. With baggage, you, your wife, pilot and some kids it will be heavy.

 

The Astar has a conventional tailrotor so it is louder but has great baggage volume, larger cabin space and more power and useful load.

 

The EC130 has the fenestron so it will be a lot more quiet than the Astar. It has slightly larger baggage volume than the Astar and a larger cabin with great visibility from the inside. It also has more redundant systems to provide for better safety.

 

The A119 is going to be quite a step up from the others. It will lack in my opinion baggage room. It would be hard to get some golf clubs and travel suitcases into the single rear compartment. Unlike the Astar and EC130 I was able to take 2 sets of clubs several suitcases and several more smaller carryon sized bags in the 3 seperate baggage compartments. The A119 is fast though and has more complicated systems which will result in increased safety and maintenance costs.

 

If I were to choose out of all of these aircraft one for personal use I think I would take the EC130. Comfort, style, safety, power and useful load with ability to carry larger luggage I think it's the best of all worlds. Faster than an Astar, safer with more redundant systems but still not going to set you back with lots of maintenace upkeep like the A119 would.

 

The only other one that would be quiet would be the MD502. I haven't flown or know much about it so can't give you any insight into them. I have flown the EC130, A119 and the AS350(Astar) though.

 

Good luck! Let us know what you decide to do and welcome to the helicopter world, unlike any other!

 

JD

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JD..thank you for that reply. You have had me on google reading and reading all morning now on the AW119. I have already bookmarked the EC130 which my wife said "looks cool" with the fenestron.

 

I had no idea you could use car seats on a helicopter, but obviously it makes sense .. so I guess having children and a helicopter would be a non-issue.

 

The only question that remains is teh "neighbor friendly" and "quiet component". It seems to be a general consensus here that the EC models with their quite and unique tail rotor wins hands down on the quiet factor.

 

I only have one last question then - if money was not an issue and you were going for pure luxury AND pure quiet - which one wins hands down ? If you could buy a sikorsky 92 or a bell jetranger - or the top of the line EC - which wins for the combo of both those qualities ? Does anyone have insight on that ?

 

My wife is a trust fund baby - so - she says if we're going to 'do this' and it is about 75 percent that we will - she said you might as well go for the gusto - sow what the hell ? right...lol

 

Marc

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Marc,

 

Glad to see you may have a wide choice of options. That opens things up a little bit. I think what you may need to do is sit down and really decide just how much you want to spend on purchase price, maintenance, fuel costs on so on.

 

Another thing to consider when looking at a helicopter for you and your family is where you are landing. What is the size of the landing zone and are there any weight restrictions on the pad itself? That would be something to ask the current owner if you haven't already.

 

Tiercel mentioned the EC135. Again another Eurocopter. It's a twin which will add a safety margin. It also has the Fenestron so the tailrotor will be nice and quiet. Of course operating costs will be higher. The VIP version can seat 5 in the back and the pilot and another up front as well. It can be IFR equipped which is a plus. While you may not do much IFR flying it's nice to be able too. Even more so since you are looking at Southern California. The EC135 has proven itself to be a good aircraft and is used a lot in EMS. It is also a pilot friendly aircraft to fly.

 

I think that if it came down to it. And I had to choose a single engine helicopter I would go with the EC130.

 

As far at low noise IFR Twins I would look hard at the EC135 and also the MD902 Explorer. The MD902 would be the quietest as it has the NOTAR system on it.

 

The EC135 is used a lot in IFR EMS programs but has a good VIP set up with 5 passengers in the back and the pilot upfront.

 

The MD902 also is used a lot in in IFR EMS and coporate programs as well. The largest single operator of the MD902 is proably CALSTAR and the recently bought MD902s to replace their current fleet. They are in California and if you wanted real first hand info you should vist a base and talk with a pilot there.

 

Selecting a helicopter is going to be hard. You really need to define how you intend to use it. Just to go back and forth from the ranch to the airport? Do some senic flights? Longer flights? Ect.

 

JD

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hi JD..

 

thank for the further info - I went to the MD helicopter site www mdhelicopters dot com - but the MD902 isn't on that page - there are 5 listed - is the "explorer" the 902 you're referring to ?

 

I just wanted to do my homework reading up on them. I think buying a helicopter is going to be "fun" but a lot of work to narrow down the possibilities. The use for us would definitely be light just flying to and from around southen california - maybe a little further north or to vegas, but that's it.

 

The helipad on the one property right now was made for a Bell Jet Ranger and I am guessing that probably limits the possibilities - although the Bell Long Ranger looks nice too to me.

 

The other 2 properties I would have to build the helipad, so the possibilities are not limited to what type of helicopter we could purchase.

 

If I "combine" everyones advice so far... it seems the EC range is #1 amongst everyone here for the combination of quiet & comfort whether it's the VIP EC130 or EC135. I must say my wife liked the EC135 twin "hermes" edition -- for luxury. I attached a pic she showed me she clipped off the web.

 

She still loves the Sikorsky 76D and yes, I realize it's a 15 million dollar helicopter - but she thinks "its just gorgeous" and probably a million times more than we would need to fly around southern california ( forget the fact that it would cost more than the ranch ). Though, I imagine a helicopter pilot would have a helluva lot of fun flying that machine.

 

I will keep reading on the eurocopters... and check out this A119 as well - I was on the AW site reading about them as well.

 

I think all the advice evryone has given will help me speak "somewhat" intelligently when I go to an airport and speak to some helicopter reps. ( assuming we go thru on the property of course )

 

Thanks !

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post-14430-1238014382_thumb.jpg

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nope, definitely not going to be flying it...LOL.... not a clue ... I"m lucky my wife lets me take the car out of the garage ..haha

 

If we decide to purchase the land - which is about 75% good chance - then yes we would have to hire a pilot/pilots. I figure there's got to be some great people out there that wouldn't mind being based in San Diego. I guess I would probably post on this site when we get to that stage - seems a likely place to start - though my wife REALLY wants a Sikorsky - even thought we definitely do not need it. I keep showing her the EC130s, A119, Bell Jet Ranger, Long Ranger and she keeps saying - "i like the sikorsky, it looks cool" - tough italian wife....lol

 

I wonder if anyone ever paid 15 million dollars for " it looks cool "

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