AS350 LTS101 engine conversion

[Bell214B]

We are thinking of trying an LTS101 engine in one of our AS350's. What I have heard conserning the 101 engine doesn't sound good to my ears. Does anyone have any experience with this engine in the AS350?

[Randy Greenhalgh]

Old news 214B.  The Lycoming has turned into a very good engine.    Talked to an operator this past summer who converted to a "Super D", and he loves it.  Lower OC's, and fuel burn than a BA, and it lifts the same.  You also don't have to deal with a certain European engine company.  ::  :unclesam:        Only downside is you need to clean the tailboom a little more often.  There are 2 conversions that I know of.  One is joint FAA, TC (U.S. & Canadian approved), and the other is only approved in Canada.  The Cdn one allows for a higher gross weight (~300 lbs) than the joint one.

 

Cheers

[Heli-Ops]

Randy - Do you know of any conversions out there using the LTS101 that is equal to the B2. I know someone who is looking at changing their Turbomeca powered machine into a Lycoming one because they are getting fed up with said company.

 

Heli Ops  rotorheadsmiley

[Randy Greenhalgh]

Ned, no I don't.  The only 2 that I know of are;  the "Super D", and the BA+.  As I mentioned, one of them allows about 300 lbs over the max gross of the BA , but there's no FAA approval on it.  The other uses the BA's MGW.   I got a good briefing on both this summer when I was in Pickle Lk Ont, but I've forgotten quite a bit of it. :down:   Need a memory upgrade, but no one makes 'em for my kind of brain anymore.       Wish I could be a little more helpful.

 

Cheers

[Bell214B]

I have been in contact with Honeywell Greer regarding the conversion and received the following answer: In September of 2003 we received certification of the LTS101-700D-2 engine. This engine was developed to be a direct replacement for the Ariel 1D1 installed in the AS350B2. We currently have a company in Canada that is working on the STC and they hope to have the aircraft at HAI in Las Vegas this year.

[Heli-Ops]

Did they say who the company is.

 

Heli Ops  rotorheadsmiley

[Bell214B]

sorry, no they didn't say, but I will give Honeywell a call later today and find out.

We had a blade strike on one of our 350's in november last year. Sent the engine to Turbomeca for inspection and are still waiting to get it back. Will get it back in the end of february they say, together with a big bill. nothing wrong with the engine but they had to do some SB's and such, which is OK, but 4 months! As far as I know Eurocopter is producing five 350's per week which means that Turbomeca has to produce five engines per week so I find it totally unacceptable that they are using 4 months for an inspection!!!

[Randy Greenhalgh]

One of the few companies who have a number of 350D's and the money is CHL/Viking.  Although Heli-Inter/Mustang/Venture/etc might have the wherewithall to do it to.  Eagle has the people do do something like that as well.

 

Cheers

[407 Driver]

BA + 300 Lb = B2 - 30 Lb    :laugh:

 

A BA at 4630 + 300 = 4930

A B2 (or B3) is good for 4961 (IGW) You'd save more than the 30 lb difference on just the weight of the engine , I'd expect ?

[lamanated]

we have 2 ba plus machines,

and like them.work well,need particle seperators though,bleed bands get dirty easy and if kept clean,give no probs.smokeless lines gives a clean tailboom.

quieter machine also.

[T-rex]

Gentleman, Our Company operates three BA+ 's They have a fuel burn of about 160 liters per hour vs the BA at 173 liters. Our machines are STC ed for 4961 internal and 4988 external. They require a two minute cool down, some problems with some compressor stalls when working or turning down wind. The engines are rock solid but never the less are NOT a B2 by any means.....

[BigMike]

Flew a Super-D and BA, for a while in the mountains in New Zealand. The Super-D seemed to perform better at altitude, as well as the fore mentioned lower DOC's. It sure is quieter on the ground too.

I heard there was going to be a Super-D "2" as well. Would be a great helicopter.

 

Cheers  BigMike

Seychelles   :cool:

[amodao]

B2 Internal is 4961 lbs and 5512 External.

BA Internal is 4630 lbs and 4988 External.

Soloy BA is the same as the BA.

 

There is a SB regarding changing a B or D to a B2, you can order a kit from eurocopter that includes 355 Tail & Main blades, Arriel 1D1, and various other parts for $550,000 Approx. All you do is trade in you tx'd 1B and send back the 350 blades. Quite a few Canadian helicopter operators have completed the conversion.

 

The last two 1D1 1st overhauls I delt with had a turn around of just under 3 months. The last 2nd run 1D1 overhaul took 3 and a half months. The 2 1st run overhauls went to 3000 hrs for the overhaul and the last 2nd run went 2840 hrs when it was sent in for maintenance convienience. There is a 2nd stage wheel replacement to be completed around 1500 hrs now but Turbomeca eats most of the cost for the re & re and pro-rates the wheel based on hours used before replacement. :alien:

I do think an option to the Arriel 1D1 will only help operators in the long run. Having choice makes everyone compete harder. The only concern I would have is if they do certify an Arriel 1D1 equivalent for the B2 is that it is reliable, cost effective, and a true replacement.

[Heli-Ops]

Skywork Helicopters here in New Zealand just upgraded their BA to a B2 and couldnt be happier. Will find out what they think when they have worked it for a bit.

 

Eagle Helicopters who were doing the Super D upgrade with the Lycoming engine said they were planning a B2 equal but have had a pain in the ass dealing with Honeywell re the new engine so that project is moving nowhere fast. Will be great when it finally comes out.

 

Heli Ops  :cheers:

[amodao]

AS350 Model Comparison

                               MODEL

  350 D     350 B    350 B1    350 B2     350 BA     "SUPER-D"

TC 7/78     11/78     2/87        6/90       3/92        JAN.2000

                              ENGINE

LTS 101    ARRIEL    ARRIEL    ARRIEL    ARRIEL       LTS 101

600A2/A3     1B         1D          1D1         1B           600A-3A

615 HP     641 HP   684 HP    732 HP    641 HP        650 HP

                            INTERNAL GROSS

 4300        4300      4850        4961       4630          4630

                             EXTERNAL GROSS

                                              5512        4988

 

Does someone have the external gross weights for the D, B, Super D, and BA+ handy?

:alien:

[amodao]

Has anyone thought about stuffing the PT6 from the Koala into a B2/B3? Didn't Rocky Mountain Heli at one time try to STC a PT6 into the LAMA? :alien:

[Bell214B]

Had a meeting with Turbomeca some days ago regarding the 2nd stage turbine disk and blades where the blade position has to be checked every 150 hrs on the Arriel 1D1 engine.

We have one engine where the turbine disk has about 1900 hrs since new. In the SB it says that when the disc reaches 1200 hrs since new you have to check the relative blade position every 150 hrs. So when we received this SB the engine had already passed 1200 hrs so we inspected it immediately and the blades were within limits. We do this check every 100 hrs because you have to be two persons to do the check so its convenient to do it during the 100 hrs inspection.

My understanding of the SB is that if the blades are within limits you can continue to use the engine until november 2006 when the disk and blades has to be replaced. The SB says something about 1500 hrs but the meaning of this is unclear to me. Anyway I asked these guys from Turbomeca if my opinion was correct and after some discussions and telephone calls, they said yes. You can continue to fly as long as the blade position is within limits.

 

Two days after they left I got a telefax from Turbomeca saying that we have to replace the disk and blades. Which is not exactly free of charge. It is not my fault that that there is something wrong with the engine so I think Turbomeca has to pay for this. But of course they will not. You get a 50% discount which is not bad. Since the Turbine Module now has a TBO of 1500 hrs instead of 3000 you might say that it is the same thing, but it is not.

 

So now I want an engine conversion on this 350. A PT6 would be the choice of my dreams but since you guys say that the LTS101 is a good one we will give it a try.

 

Any comments on this?

[lamanated]

from my experience,the Lts works great if you keep the PC filters clean, If you swap them every 50 hrs,and keep on top of compressor washes or get a particle filter for her.they are quieter than the B2 also..you also need the Gerin oil acidity kit for it and a PC filter differential pressure  tester also..