Weather Mininum

[Dominis]

Is it ok to practice hovering or other low level maneuvers when weather in class echo are below mininums for flight?

 

Dom

[copterkeith06]

Class E no. Class G yes. FAR 91.155 Unless, you get a special VFR with ATC clearance. And that's not going to happen for practice.

[rodrop]

Would that fall under the Class G: See and Avoid and Clear of Clouds...?

[Falko]

helicopters are not FLYING as long as they are below 100 feet AGL. --> no SVFR required what so ever

[Gomer Pylot]

Without the intent to fly, you're fine. You can hover, reposition, or air taxi. You can fly as long as you have a SVFR clearance.

[Witch]

Wanna hear something silly?

 

A couple of winters ago, it were foggier than crap-about 100 foot visibility I could hear a heli out there in the fog, but couldn't see it. Turns out that it was at the compass rose on the abandoned just hovering. It then dawned on me that it was stupid for me to ride all the way up here for nothing, and I'd have to ride all the way back:70 miles of fog-statute, not nautical.

 

Well, they weren't flying.?

 

Later

[copterkeith06]

Gomer Pilot & Falko. Where would one find that information ? I just want to see it for myself. I've flown around the class G many times below VFR minimums, but not glass E.

 

I've always heard that a helicopter is flying as soon as it becomes light on the skids.

 

 

Keith

[JDHelicopterPilot]

I've done it many times. Though don't drag out the flight lesson and not every student is going to benefit from hover/ground work. Some students neex X-C or insturment time so then it's pointless.

 

Other students may need to be introduced to slopes, hover autos, Q-stops or the like. Then it would be worthwhile provided you have a place there on the airport. You'll need a SVFR but that is easy in Class D and C.

 

However, Class E to the surface if you want SVFR who are you going to call? Well, FSS can give you a clearance by working with APP/DEP or Center. I don't think though they will give you a SVFR just to remain at the airport since there is no tower and I doubt you can reach APP or DEP or Center on the ground.

 

JD

[Gomer Pylot]

Hovering is the same thing as taxiing in a fixed-wing. You're not flying as soon as you're light on the skids. I've moved helicopters many times in Class E surface areas - I was based in one for many years. Your interpretation would mean that it would be impossible to move an aircraft for maintenance, or to change parking spaces. That's silly. Hovering is not the same as flying, as you would discover at any towered airport. You hover to the runway or takeof pad with ground control, not tower, unless there is an agreement in effect to the contrary. You can also air taxi under the direction of ground control. I'm not sure there is a specific regulation on this, but anything not prohibited is permitted, at least in the US, and you won't be violated for hovering in Class E regardless of the weather.

[JDHelicopterPilot]

Gomer,

 

I guess one could say hovering is one thing but what about going out and doing quick stops, slopes and what not on the field? At what point do we draw the line? The point of the surface area is to allow IFR to get in and provide seperation. I am not sure I would want to be shooting an approach if there was the possibility of a helicopter out in the field playing around and I won't be able to see them or them see me.

 

With SVFR and IFR clearanced ATC will already know you are there and your intentions and can thus be sure to provide some form of seperation. Then again, most controlers don't allow(I think due to regulation) SVFR operations in the same airspace or sector of airspace at the same time.

 

Again, I doubt anyone would get a SVFR clearance to operate on the field with out a tower being open.

 

On another note, I have almost never called ground first even if I intended to taxi up to a runway for take off. I have always gone stright to the tower with out problem.

[thrilsekr]

Just the other weekend my CFI and I were getting ready to go up in IFR for some traffic pattern practice. We knew we would get denied, but thought we would giver 'er a try anyway. The IFR conditions were borderline VFR. Broken 900 was the issue. We waited about an extra 15 minutes waiting for the beacon to be turned off. Anyway... Hovered up, asked for clearance. The reply was merely that we were in IFR conditions. So we asked for inactive runway 25 for hover practice, and got it. They cleared IFR about 20 minutes or so into hover practice.

[Gomer Pylot]

JD, I think that if you're not flying, and not on the runways, you're legal. I do not claim that everything that is legal is smart. If you're on an IFR approach, you should be going to the runway, which is the only place on the airport that is protected. If there is a tower, it will allow all sorts of things to go on all over the airport, as long as nobody encroaches on the runways. You should expect no more at an uncontrolled airport, be it Class E or G.

[choppedair]

It's kind of a touchy subject. But as Gomer said, "anything not prohibited is permitted".

But I would be very careful about it. Definitely stay away from the runways. If you're "low level", really you are just taxiing I believe. But this doesn't mean you want to be doing air taxis and quick stops up and down the runway obviously.

I don't believe you will get any kind of special VFR clearance to work at a class E airport, unless you are arriving or departing.

The thing that always crosses my mind is, what would an FAA representative say if they saw you doing it? Some may think nothing of it, while another may think you are a huge safety risk. Hard to say.

[Jeff]

All,

 

There are no weather minimums for surface operations. The following are considered surface operations for the purpose of helicopter operations:

1. Hovering

2. Hover taxiing

3. Surface taxiing

4. Air taxiing.

 

Obviously, just sitting there with the rotor turning is a surface operation. As long as you are performing a surface operation in a helicopter, you do not need to heed VFR weather minimums, at least from a regulatory standpoint. Common sense is another story.

 

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headqu.../2008/Lloyd.pdf

 

This letter (link above) should clear things up.

 

~Jeff

[AdamI]

Gomer Pilot & Falko. Where would one find that information ? I just want to see it for myself. I've flown around the class G many times below VFR minimums, but not glass E.

 

I've always heard that a helicopter is flying as soon as it becomes light on the skids.

 

 

Keith

 

 

They are talking about 2 different types of flying; 1. Flying by the FAA's definition 2. flying by a helicopter pilots definition. Your instructor is telling you the helicopter is flying when its light on the skids because students have the tendancy to neglect the cyclic and pedals until the helicopter is all the way off the ground which leads to crappy take offs (you know sliding all over and letting the nose yaw). so your instructor is saying that to get it into your head that as soon as before the helicopter gets light on the skids you need to be active on all three controls. In other words when the helicopter is light on the skids its acting like its flying so you need to be acting like the pilot.

 

The legal definition of flying as far as the FAA is concerned is a whole different story, which is what all the other posts are about.