How do you deal with a stuck cyclic...??

[Aussie]

G'day,

I'm brand new here and hope you guys can help me.

I'm a student pilot here in Sydney learning in an R22 Beta 2. I have about 35 hours logged so far and am working through emergency procedures with my CFI before going solo sometime fairly soon. My CFI believes in covering every emergency thoroughly before letting his students solo, so my last lesson on dealing with a stuck collective was challenging and exhilarating - it also left me feeling somewhat "car sick"!! I was interested to read past posts on that topic and the range of solutions offered. Next lesson we touch on stuck cyclic and I've been asked by the CFI to give him my thoughts on what we could do about it if it occurred. I'd be very glad to hear anyone's thoughts.

Cheers!

[Rogue]

still a student so my best guess is keep the nose straight with the pedals and autorotate to a run on landing

[RockyMountainPilot]

Depends on where it is stuck. If it is stuck in a cruise position, just lower the collective and make a high speed approach to a run on landing. You don't want to autorotate, because you won't be able to flare. If it is stuck right or left and you are stuck rolling, you can move passengers around or equipment if possible to reduce or eliminate the turn. A wrecked helicopter in your future is likely, but you will probably walk away. Ty and keep it as level and straight as possible wit a nice smooth descent. No sudden movements. Land in a large bail of straw:)

[Gomer Pylot]

In reality, with a stuck cyclic you're going to crash, probably inverted. I don't see the point of this exercise, since the likelihood is so remote, and the chances of recovery are nil. An immediate auto is the only possibility in most cases, unless you're very, very close to being able to land. A stiff cyclic is another story, but a completely stuck cyclic is going to have a catastrophic ending. Holding the cyclic to simulate it, and moving it enough to stay upright is not the same thing.

[ironranger]

Take the frictions off!

[heli.pilot]

Take the frictions off!

If only the frictions worked that well!

[Eric Hunt]

Actually, it is surprisingly easy to control the R22 with a "stuck cyclic" by using the secondary effects of controls.

 

The pedals will cause a roll (with a lot of yaw, but it will roll you to level or in and out of a turn) to let you fly to a more convenient place to have your accident.

 

Collective has the secondary effect of pitching the nose up and down.

 

With a bit of stuffing around, you can get to a low and slow situation where hopefully the accident won't hurt too much. Preferably on a field with fire and ambulance support.

 

I had always thought that a stuck cyclic was a death sentence, but recently reverting to the Robbie to train up a new instructor, I tried this sequence and it worked really well.

[500E]

Glad to see you walked away Eric long time no hear

[Aussie]

G'day again.

Thank you all for taking the time to reply.

I think that the answer involving the use of the secondary effects of pedal induced roll and nose up and down pitch variation via collective is going to be the one my CFI is hoping to hear.

I'll be taking that lesson later this week, so I'll see how I go.

Thanks again, and I'll be back with more questions, I'm sure.

Cheers.

[choppedair]

Lock the friction to ensure it stays put, and crawl around to shift your weight! lol

I know if a backseat passenger in the R44 shifts over to look out the other side without me knowing, it puts us in a pretty quick roll! Just out of pure curiosity, I tightened the friction just enough to keep it from wandering and I could control the ship in cruise flight by shifting my weight just a few inches. Crazy thing about flying such light ships

 

Either way, it's very unlikely to happen, and the end result will almost certainly be a disaster of a crash.

[helonorth]

Never heard of a stuck cyclic or what to do if it happened. I'm thinking prayer is about your

only option. Or turn around, sit on the cyclic and let the NTSB try to figure it out.

Edited April 20, 2009 by helonorth

[500E]

Would be just my luck to survive and loose licence like the Tommy Lee story

[Falcon1184]

If your flying with the doors off, just stick your arms outside to create drag on whatever side needed to turn.

[Gomer Pylot]

We used to use leaning to turn and maintain attitude in UH1s way back when, but it required several pax in the back, and very still air. If you have very stable air, you can fly this way for a short time, but eventually it won't be enough, and in even moderately turbulent air it won't work. Demonstrating it for a short time is easy enough if you pick the conditions, but doing it long enough to actually land is something entirely different.

[IFLY]

I think I would be motivated enough to try.

 

Jerry

[Gomer Pylot]

Of course I would try. No matter what the malfunction is, you keep on flying as far into the crash as you can, and never give up. I just don't believe the odds are very good for landing successfully (meaning alive) with a completely stuck cyclic. I suspect I would probably break it off before I hit the ground, but I'd still be doing something when I hit.

[rotormandan]

Or turn around, sit on the cyclic and let the NTSB try to figure it out.

 

 

Sounds like you flew with Chin Tu at Civic Helicopters at some point......eh?

[Justin DBC]

I would think the best way to handle that situation would be some prior planning. Keep your life insurance paperwork in a fireproof safe in the aircraft. If the cyclic gets completely stuck, pull them out and sign them over to me. Just make sure you get them back into the safe before you crash... er... land.

 

J-

[Eric Hunt]

Bit of a thread creep, but I just noticed that, despite joining 10 months before Gomer, he got to be member 729 and I am 793!!

 

Discrimination against Aussies? I demand my seniority back!

[Gomer Pylot]

I slipped in and grabbed a number someone forgot to issue. I have no idea how that happened, and to tell the truth, I've never even noticed what my number was. But I think it's only fair that Aussies go to the end of the line, where they deserve to be.

[Aussie]

OK guys, I had the stuck cyclic lesson on wednesday and thought you might like to know what my instructor taught me. He has over 14,000 hours in Robbies, so I figure he's as well qualified as anyone to show how it's done!

Secondary effects were the key of course. Used yaw to create a rolling turn and power to raise and lower the nose. The advice was to use "stabbing" movements on the collective to get the best results when using it to control attitude. During the exercise full friction was applied to the cyclic to simulate a stuck condition. He also told me of an instructor he used to know who would gaffer tape the cyclic to four corners of the cabin to hold it still for this exercise!

The outcome was that after having to go around once (only using yaw and power!) we made an approach that would have seen us do a run on landing at around 45 kts at an angle of around 30 degrees.

Now all I have to do is rack up another 13,960 hours and I should be able to do it, too...!

Flying again tomorrow morning, reviewing all emergency procedures and expect to go solo some time the week after that.

Cheers.

[Justin DBC]

OK guys, I had the stuck cyclic lesson on wednesday and thought you might like to know what my instructor taught me. He has over 14,000 hours in Robbies, so I figure he's as well qualified as anyone to show how it's done!

Secondary effects were the key of course. Used yaw to create a rolling turn and power to raise and lower the nose. The advice was to use "stabbing" movements on the collective to get the best results when using it to control attitude. During the exercise full friction was applied to the cyclic to simulate a stuck condition. He also told me of an instructor he used to know who would gaffer tape the cyclic to four corners of the cabin to hold it still for this exercise!

The outcome was that after having to go around once (only using yaw and power!) we made an approach that would have seen us do a run on landing at around 45 kts at an angle of around 30 degrees.

Now all I have to do is rack up another 13,960 hours and I should be able to do it, too...!

Flying again tomorrow morning, reviewing all emergency procedures and expect to go solo some time the week after that.

Cheers.

 

Yikes! I'm a big fan of practicing EPs as much as possible, but I personally would have a major problem balancing the risk/reward factor of taping the cyclic in one position. I don't even like the idea of throwing full friction on. Seems too dangerous to learn when, especially for someone who DOESN'T have 14,000 hours, you're probably going to eat ground anyways. But hey, if you were able to do that without crapping your pants, you're a better man than I!

 

J-