VFR currency expired

[John90290]

My 90 day VFR just expired, what is my next step? Do I just need to fly a dual lesson?

 

Thanks,

 

John

[PhotoFlyer]

Just go do 3 takeoffs and 3 landings. Doesn't matter if it's dual or solo, you just can't carry passengers until you do this.

[John90290]

Thanks!

 

-John

[LifeApresMil]

3 TakeOffs and Landings within every 90 days, huh?

 

Now in a Fixed Wing, you need airspeed to do those. I don't have a FAR with me...but in a helicopter can these 3 takeoffs and landings be done and satisfy the requirement without even going anywhere but UP, down, UP, down, UP, down with the collective in a hover?

 

I fully understand the assumption in doing 3 patterns, but would it be legal for a helicopter pilot to do it all in a hover? Is it defined for a helicopter?

 

The reason I bring it up is a few years back I read a thread on here or the JH forum where HEMS pilots did it from a hover on their pad and called it good to go. It seemed like cheating and defeating the intent of the FAR, but can you legally get away with it if FAA were to get involved?

 

From a cheapskate point of view, the outcome could save someone some money in keeping current. But for safetys sake, which is the intent of the requirement, you're better off doing the 3 patterns.

 

Just wondering.

[1helipilot]

That's a good question. I always assumed the 3 patterns were required. Since I don't have my FAR here with me at work, I'm going to have to find it on the FAA online info.

[rotorrodent]

3 TakeOffs and Landings within every 90 days, huh?

 

Now in a Fixed Wing, you need airspeed to do those. I don't have a FAR with me...but in a helicopter can these 3 takeoffs and landings be done and satisfy the requirement without even going anywhere but UP, down, UP, down, UP, down with the collective in a hover?

 

I fully understand the assumption in doing 3 patterns, but would it be legal for a helicopter pilot to do it all in a hover? Is it defined for a helicopter?

 

The reason I bring it up is a few years back I read a thread on here or the JH forum where HEMS pilots did it from a hover on their pad and called it good to go. It seemed like cheating and defeating the intent of the FAR, but can you legally get away with it if FAA were to get involved?

 

From a cheapskate point of view, the outcome could save someone some money in keeping current. But for safetys sake, which is the intent of the requirement, you're better off doing the 3 patterns.

 

Just wondering.

 

The FAR's only state 3 Takeoffs and Landings in Category and Class as sole manipulator of the controls. Nothing in the FAR's that define "landing". The FAA even allows it to be done in an approved simulator. You are not "leaving" the ground in a sim.

 

There is nothing cheating about any of this. Interpret what you will for the helicopter. Every approach to a hover I do is logged as a landing as are set downs. Practice Auto's to power recovery? Landing? Why not? Pick up, move to the adjacent pad, set down, hover taxi to another part of the ramp, hover, return to your original spot and set down.

 

Only fixed wing actually have to do a circuit because of what they are unless the runway is 14,000 feet long of which you can do 3 touch and go's without a circuit!

 

It boils down to this IMHO, currency and proficiency by manipulating the controls for the purpose of flight.

 

What do the rest of you think of this matter?

 

Cheers

 

Rotorrodent

[helonorth]

I think just picking it up and setting it down, calling it a take off and landing, pretty much

violates the "spirit" of the regulation. I would not want to have to go against to FAA on this, as you

would most certainly lose. If you were in an airplane on a long runway and just it got airborne, landed, then repeated it two more times, this would probably not "fly" with the FAA, either.

[slick1537]

Agreed, if you think it may be against regulation, it will be viewed by the FAA as being so.

[Goldy]

Rodent- Good argument though I dont agree!! You are right in that the FAR's absolutely do not do a good job defining it, but I doubt the FAA expects you to just pick up and set down. The whole reason for flying a pattern is that you perform many different tasks...radio work, hover, hover taxi into ETL, Thru ETL, safe climb avoiding the H/V curve, level flight, descent, out of ETL, Hover, land. If I were the prosecutor I would ask you how many of those tasks you performed just prior to crashing.

 

Different perspective to think about!

 

Goldy

Edited April 26, 2009 by Goldy

[joeschmoeheli]

Not trying to be a jerk here but here goes:

 

If this guy doesn't even know how to get current or how to use a FAR/AIM, he might need a bit more than just a few pick ups and set downs. I would recommend at least an hour with a CFI maybe make it a BFR just for fun.

[helonorth]

I just assumed he was a student. Not to be a jerk, but there's no such thing as BFR and there

hasn't been for quite awhile.

[joeschmoeheli]

Well it's still in the '09 FAR unless there's something I don't know about

 

Check out 61.56 to learn about BFR's Not to be a jerk

 

Even if he is a student, I'm thinking it would be a good idea to go up with a CFI for a quick refresher rather than just doing the bare minimum to get current. Not trying to start an argument, just giving some friendly advice........

Edited April 27, 2009 by joeschmoeheli

[JDHelicopterPilot]

Helonorth,

 

There are still BFRs. Part 61.56. It just that most of us never do a true BFR since can get around it different ways.

 

JD

[Witch]

What about the annual flight review required by sfar 73? Might one be able to apply the robbie factory course as an afr? Does it count only if done with your local cfi? Does this make any sense?

[flewthecoupe]

The annual flight review in a Robbie is only required if under 200 hours helicopters. If you've 200 or more then it reverts back to bi-annual and must be done in a Robbie if you want to fly a Robbie (model specific). And only the awareness training can be given by the factory course unless one of the test pilots you go up with will sit down with you for an hour and fly with you for an hour and is a cfi and Frank allows them to do this in one of his birds.

[joeschmoeheli]

The annual flight review in a Robbie is only required if under 200 hours helicopters. If you've 200 or more then it reverts back to bi-annual and must be done in a Robbie if you want to fly a Robbie (model specific). And only the awareness training can be given by the factory course unless one of the test pilots you go up with will sit down with you for an hour and fly with you for an hour and is a cfi and Frank allows them to do this in one of his birds.

 

 

Where are you guys coming up with this stuff???? You are correct in your first two sentences but after that you are extreamly wrong. Read the FAR. SFAR 73 says that any CFI who has attended the safety course (and meets other obvious requirements) can do awareness training. Where does it say that you have to go to a factory course every 2 years and fly with one of their pilots with franks blessing? You just have to fly with another Robinson CFI and do awareness training.

 

Any (robinson) qualified CFI can give awareness training for an AFR or BFR

 

 

Besides it looks like the guy is flying a schweizer in his avatar so he might not care about the sfar anyway.

[TheLorax]

once your skids leave the ground you are in the airspace. if you want, all you have to do is pick up and set down three (3) times..

[flewthecoupe]

Where are you guys coming up with this stuff???? You are correct in your first two sentences but after that you are extreamly wrong. Read the FAR. SFAR 73 says that any CFI who has attended the safety course (and meets other obvious requirements) can do awareness training. Where does it say that you have to go to a factory course every 2 years and fly with one of their pilots with franks blessing? You just have to fly with another Robinson CFI and do awareness training.

 

Any (robinson) qualified CFI can give awareness training for an AFR or BFR

 

 

Besides it looks like the guy is flying a schweizer in his avatar so he might not care about the sfar anyway.

 

 

Actually, I am not wrong, you either misread or misinterpretted what I wrote.

 

The safety course does not qualify as a checkride unless you can talk Frank into letting you use one of his heli's and one of his test pilots for an hour of ground, an hour of flight, and then if they are a CFI.

 

But it can be used for the awareness training.

 

No where did I state that the training could only be done at the factory.

Edited April 27, 2009 by flewthecoupe

[joeschmoeheli]

Yeah, I guess I misinterpreted your post. Sounds like you are saying that the factory course is the only place where one can recieve awareness training. Sorry for the miscommunication. Too much coffee this mornin making me a little jumpy.

Edited April 27, 2009 by joeschmoeheli

[flewthecoupe]

To not confuse anyone....

 

... And only the awareness training can be given by the factory course unless one of the test pilots you go up with will sit down with you for an hour and fly with you for an hour and is a cfi and Frank allows them to do this in one of his birds.

 

Notice where the word ONLY is used:

 

It states that: ONLY awareness training can be given at the factory and not a checkride.

It does not state that: awareness training can ONLY be given at the factory.

Edited April 27, 2009 by flewthecoupe

[Goldy]

Coupe- point taken, I read it wrong when I read thru it the first time as well.....I see you're looking for a 300C? Couple of them for sale right now...

[helonorth]

There is no such thing as a Biennial Flight Review. Where does it say anything about "biennial" in Part 61.56? It doesn't. Can anyone tell me why? C'mon, instructors! Somebody

already brought it up.

Edited April 27, 2009 by helonorth

[joeschmoeheli]

There is no such thing as a Biennial Flight Review. Where does it say anything about "biennial" in Part 61.56? It doesn't. Can anyone tell me why? C'mon, instructors! Somebody

already brought it up.

 

It's still called a Biennial Flight Review in the index.

 

If you want to battle symantics of the FAR's you are wasting your time with this crowd, go get a job with the feds instead

[helonorth]

Yeah, you can call it whatever you want, but to me its seems a little sloppy to be still calling it a

BFR, when it hasn't been called that for years by the FAA. My examiner thought so too when he

corrected me on a check ride. It's simply a Flight Review.

[joeschmoeheli]

Yeah, you can call it whatever you want, but to me its seems a little sloppy to be still calling it a

BFR, when it hasn't been called that for years by the FAA. My examiner thought so too when he

corrected me on a check ride. It's simply a Flight Review.

 

 

Um, the FAA still calls it a Biennial flight review in the index. It is required "Biennially" every 24 months. If you search their website, it is called a BFR many times.

 

Sounds like your examiner just had an axe to grind. They will do that a lot to throw you off your game sometimes. I got a 2 hour lecture on logging PIC time during an instrument checkride.