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Rodent- Good argument though I dont agree!! You are right in that the FAR's absolutely do not do a good job defining it, but I doubt the FAA expects you to just pick up and set down. The whole reason for flying a pattern is that you perform many different tasks...radio work, hover, hover taxi into ETL, Thru ETL, safe climb avoiding the H/V curve, level flight, descent, out of ETL, Hover, land. If I were the prosecutor I would ask you how many of those tasks you performed just prior to crashing.

 

Different perspective to think about!

 

Goldy

 

point well taken, however, if you fly in an approved simulator, you actually do none of the above!!! The 90 day rule has always been about proficiency (practice) manipulating the controls for the purpose of flight. Oft times we get really wrapped about the axles on the small stuff! My favorite old saying, "knowledge is what you get by reading the small print, experience is what you get for not reading it!" :)

 

Cheers

 

Rotorrodent

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If you read the FAR you need 3 takeoffs and landings but the AIM says hover and air taxi are ground operations. The AIM isn't regulatory but I will not take a chance on a FAA action because I was too lazy or cheap to get to pattern altitude.

 

Jerry

 

 

FAR

§ 61.57 Recent flight experience: Pilot in command.

 

(a) General experience. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, no person may act as a pilot in command of an aircraft carrying passengers or of an aircraft certificated for more than one pilot flight crewmember unless that person has made at least three takeoffs and three landings within the preceding 90 days

 

AIM

4-3-17. VFR Helicopter Operations at Controlled Airports

 

b. ...Taxi, hover taxi, and air taxi operations are considered to be ground movements. Helicopters conducting such operations are expected to adhere to the same conditions, requirements, and practices as apply to other ground taxiing and ATC procedures in the AIM.

 

1. The phraseology taxi is used when it is intended or expected that the helicopter will taxi on the airport surface, either via taxiways or other prescribed routes. Taxi is used primarily for helicopters equipped with wheels or in response to a pilot request. Preference should be given to this procedure whenever it is necessary to minimize effects of rotor downwash.

 

2. Pilots may request a hover taxi when slow forward movement is desired or when it may be appropriate to move very short distances. Pilots should avoid this procedure if rotor downwash is likely to cause damage to parked aircraft or if blowing dust/snow could obscure visibility. If it is necessary to operate above 25 feet AGL when hover taxiing, the pilot should initiate a request to ATC.

 

3. Air taxi is the preferred method for helicopter ground movements on airports provided ground operations and conditions permit. Unless otherwise requested or instructed, pilots are expected to remain below 100 feet AGL.

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Um, the FAA still calls it a Biennial flight review in the index. It is required "Biennially" every 24 months. If you search their website, it is called a BFR many times.

 

Sounds like your examiner just had an axe to grind. They will do that a lot to throw you off your game sometimes. I got a 2 hour lecture on logging PIC time during an instrument checkride.

That is not the FAA calling it a BFR. It is the publishing company, so people can find it.

61.56 FLIGHT REVIEW. The only one that matters. I know what biennially means. I agree with my examiner.

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That is not the FAA calling it a BFR. It is the publishing company, so people can find it.

61.56 FLIGHT REVIEW. The only one that matters. I know what biennially means. I agree with my examiner.

 

 

That's fine, I'll still call it a BFR because everyone will still know what I'm talking about, and your argument is still nothing more than semantics.

 

Can you answer the question that you posed?

Can anyone tell me why?

 

Just because an examiner lit a fire under your butt during a checkride doesn't mean that this is a huge issue. If it keep you up at night because people are still calling it a BFR then you have problems. :lol:

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LOL this thread is very interesting. A BFR is a BFR or a flight review is a flight review. Either way it's still required. I would suspect the FAA tells the publisher what to publish and that the publisher doesn't just publish what they want. Could be wrong.

 

I am late to the thread but glad Jerry beat me to it. Hover work and airtaxi is just that, ground operations. Sorry, gotta take it around the pattern. No way around that.

 

The SFAR 73 gets everyone stirred up. Can the flight review for the SFAR 73 be counted towards a BFR? Yes it can provided you cover all required operations from both on the same ride. Good to go.

 

To the OP, as I said before, just go up and do 3 patterns and then you'll be able to carry passengers. Make sure you long your landings in the log book!

 

 

JD

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That's fine, I'll still call it a BFR because everyone will still know what I'm talking about, and your argument is still nothing more than semantics.

 

Can you answer the question that you posed?

 

Just because an examiner lit a fire under your butt during a checkride doesn't mean that this is a huge issue. If it keep you up at night because people are still calling it a BFR then you have problems. :lol:

Calling a flight review a BFR is kind of like calling Bravo airspace a "TCA". For a long time, people knew what you were talking about but also knew you didn't know what you were talking

about. My Jeppeson FAR/AIM has no "BFR" the index. I guess that's because it's not in there.

Please get it straight if you ever wish to go beyond your Private. Oh yeah, it changed when the

Robinson SFAR came out because of the annual check out.

Edited by helonorth
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Since everyone is getting into semantics, wouldn't biennial flight review still be correct in the sense that "flight review" is the official name and biennial is just an adjective? Annual flight review for the low time Robbie pilots, such as myself. :D

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Calling a flight review a BFR is kind of like calling Bravo airspace a "TCA". For a long time, people knew what you were talking about but also knew you didn't know what you were talking

about. My Jeppeson FAR/AIM has no "BFR" the index. I guess that's because it's not in there.

Please get it straight if you ever wish to go beyond your Private. Oh yeah, it changed when the

Robinson SFAR came out because of the annual check out.

 

 

"Don't argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

 

Gotta hand it to you, at least you are persistent. :rolleyes:.......

 

I'll keep doing my flight reviews "biennially", hope you don't mind

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The ground operations argument put forth by Jerry and JD is right on. That's why you don't need a SVFR clearance to taxi (hover taxi OR air taxi) in controlled airspace when weather is less than VFR minimums - you're not "flying" as far as ATC is concerned. My guess is that if these ground operations are not deemed "flight" (and therefore do not require a SVFR clearance in IFR conditions) then they would not satisfy the requirements for meeting currency either.

 

As for the simulator, I'd say the same thing. If you do 3 "pick-ups" and "set-downs" (as opposed to 3 patterns with "takeoffs" and "landings") in a simulator, I doubt that the FAA would agree that you were current. If, however, you fly 3 patterns in a simulator you have now completed all the phases of flight as desribed earlier by Goldy.

 

As a side note, the night flight requirement for private states that 10 takeoffs and 10 landings must be completed "with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern". One could make an argument that since it IS spelled out there, and NOT for VFR currency, that perhaps a flight in the pattern is not required for VFR currency.

 

Personally I would just go fly the pattern already! It will take less time (and money) to go fly the pattern than it will to argue with the FAA if they deem that your 3 pick-ups and set-downs are inadequate for the purpose of meeting the requirements of 61.57.

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