kneeboard organization

[Vassago]

I've recently completed my first x-country solo, and am looking forward to more!

My biggest problem is organization, specifically when the doors are off.

 

When the doors are on, I can put my map on the seat beside me, flight plan and notes on my kneeboard.

 

This doesn't work so well with no doors, so trying to figure out a better way to manage this.

 

My kneeboard is kinda crappy one for those silly fixed wing people (didn't know when I bought it.. stupid brain). It has flaps so when the doors are off they have a tendency to fly around.

 

Curious what the real world does for managing these things.

 

My instructor has a mountain of stuff on his kneeboard, and seeing as I'm usually flying not sure how he manages when he is PIC.. maybe just experience so he's not as nervous about taking his hands off the collective while dealing with it

 

Suggestions?

We're in an R22, so space is always limited!

[PhotoFlyer]

My first, and most obvious, suggestion is to fly with the doors on.

 

My second, and somewhat obvious suggestion, is ask your instructor for a ground lesson on cockpit organization. Of course, you probably should have already had this. In addition, ask your instructor for advice.

 

Another suggestion that has worked for my students is to practice cockpit organization while driving your car. Literally plan and execute a "flight" in your car. Get a road map and mark your course, use your kneeboard, and execute your drive as if you were flying, even if you know your route by heart. This will allow you to iron out any kinks in your CRM.

 

Edit: Oh, and if you must fly with the doors off, fold your map and stick it under your inside leg to keep it handy but keep it in the cockpit.

Edited April 26, 2009 by PhotoFlyer

[67november]

I read on the other site, some tip for this.

Use the white medical tape from the drug store for you different notes, I.E. airport Freqs. put the tape on different parts of your pant legs, ceiling, inst. panel etc. any info that you'd normally carry in paper form convert to this to clean up your clutter

[1helipilot]

Get a better kneeboard too.

[AngelFire_91]

I read on the other site, some tip for this.

Use the white medical tape from the drug store for you different notes, I.E. airport Freqs. put the tape on different parts of your pant legs, ceiling, inst. panel etc. any info that you'd normally carry in paper form convert to this to clean up your clutter

 

Ahhh yes.... The good old medical tape on the pants routine. We used to do it all the time when I worked medical calls at the Fire Dept. and I would come back to the station looking like I just broke out of prision with black and white stripes all over my legs with Blood pressures, IV calculations, etc.. all over them. Truth of the matter is though I never leave home for a flight without my tape either. It's a great tool for writting frequencies, shorthand clearences, or weather.

 

If I don't have tape, I have a plain old cheap like $2 piece of metal with a clip, keenboard that I use, charts I don't bring on local flights usually. I would suggest if your going to be doing X-Countries and such it's a good idea to keep the doors on so you can use that seat next to you.

[ADRidge]

I just always had my flight plan under my sectional. Need to look up a freq, lift up the sectional for a second, then do what you need to do.

[Witch]

I found some checklist pages from an old flight crew checklist I had, and drilled a few holes in the kneeboard so to attach the pages with some rings. I then photocopied the sectional I need and inserted that into one of the pages. I can either draw the course on the map or on the plastic page with a wet-erase marker. There's also a page to write down info. I also have a checklist that is bigger for easier reading, and pages from the AFD for the places I travel

 

I can flip the pages over as needed and they don't blow outta the door. It serves my mediocre needs.

[ales]

"Another suggestion that has worked for my students is to practice cockpit organization while driving your car. Literally plan and execute a "flight" in your car. Get a road map and mark your course, use your kneeboard, and execute your drive as if you were flying, even if you know your route by heart. This will allow you to iron out any kinks in your CRM."

 

I just don't think this is a good suggestion. Flying and driving are not the same. Driving a car is too dynamic to use the same "cockpit management"as in the aircraft. Too many dead people on roads, just because they didn't have their eyes on the road.

[Gomer Pylot]

I have a 9G kneeboard from Wings Inc, and it has a clear strap that will hold pages in place in the wind. Writing stuff on tape all over the place is not organization, it's laziness. It's better to keep all your notes in one place.

 

I agree with the suggestion to put the doors on. Having the doors off is fine if you're just puttering around, but if you need to read charts or much of anything besides simple sightseeing, you need the doors on so you have a chance to keep things you need in place. If there's even a chance I would need to read a chart, I'm going to have the doors on.

[rotorrodent]

I've recently completed my first x-country solo, and am looking forward to more!

My biggest problem is organization, specifically when the doors are off.

 

When the doors are on, I can put my map on the seat beside me, flight plan and notes on my kneeboard.

 

This doesn't work so well with no doors, so trying to figure out a better way to manage this.

 

My kneeboard is kinda crappy one for those silly fixed wing people (didn't know when I bought it.. stupid brain). It has flaps so when the doors are off they have a tendency to fly around.

 

Curious what the real world does for managing these things.

 

My instructor has a mountain of stuff on his kneeboard, and seeing as I'm usually flying not sure how he manages when he is PIC.. maybe just experience so he's not as nervous about taking his hands off the collective while dealing with it

 

Suggestions?

We're in an R22, so space is always limited!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Congratulations on your x-country's. They are indeed really fun. As for your organization, a few things.

 

1. Get yourself a decent kneeboard. Mine is the "Ultimate Kneeboard" by Harper Aviation in Eagle Idaho (shameless plug!). It has features to keep you organized nicely. I added to it a velcro attached 3 flip pouches, top one is frequencies, next is blank to write on.

 

2. For your x-country planning, make a copy of your sectional (for your route), and draw all of your needed information on the chart. Fold away parts of the sectional you don't need (to make it compact), leaving just 1 page about 8.5"x5". If your x-country is a bit longer, just fold it in half so that all you have to do in flight is to flip it over.

 

3. As for door off flying, I appreciate the fact that everything blows about. There are some places you have to have the doors off, like in the heat of the desert SW USA. Get yourself a large metal clip from the Office Supply store, and use it to clip everything together so your papers don't go airbourne on you.

 

If you need further help please PM me. One attribute of a good pilot is one who is organized!

 

Cheers

 

Rotorrodent

 

[delorean]

I hate kneeboards (in helicopters at least.)

 

The one I used in the airplane, and a few times in the helicopter, is from Sisson's Satchels here in St. Louis. It's nothing more than a hard piece of balistic nylon with fuzzy Velcro. Then you put the prickly Velcro on everything--handheld GPS, timer, notepad, pen, plotter, flashlight, electronic E6B, etc. http://www.sissonsatchels.com/page2.html

 

The only thing I ever used in the R22, was the "Third Hand" which was nothing more than a "banker's clip" with an adjustable elastic strap around it. After a while though, I just stuffed the map or notepad under my leg. http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?DI...roduct_ID=11135

 

Now, all I use is medical tape. We fly doors on, so I don't have to worry about stuff flying around, but I just slap a 6" long strip of 2-3" wide silk tap on my leg, and that's all I need. I use 3M Durapore. The cheaper plastic tape will fall off as soon as you get sweat on it, and for some reason a ball point pen doesn't work so well on some of the other silk tape I've tried.

 

Good luck......

[AngelFire_91]

Writing stuff on tape all over the place is not organization, it's laziness. It's better to keep all your notes in one place.

Who said you write all over the place? It's just like delorean said. You get some of that 2" to 3" wide stuff and place a piece about 6" long length wise along your leg and use it as a notepad, everything is right there on your leg. I also have used the color photocopy of a chart too, fold it so it fits your kneeboard, place your flight plan under it, then lift and write when needed.

[Vassago]

Thanks folks

I dont mind flying with doors on so much (other than being cramped at 6'3), its just HOT in summer time. No AC sucks, and I hate the heat.

 

I flew for a few hours today with doors on, in 90 something heat.. it was bearable while I was in the air but as soon as you stop you just BAKE lol

 

I like the option of making a copy of the sectional, so I dont have a huge sectional all folded up and difficult to manage.

I've also considered putting a 2-3 ring binder on my kneeboard but I'mjust not that creative lol

I'll check out some of the kneeboards suggested.

I'll also check into the tape thing

 

Flying around here in DC area, always have to deal with SFRA transponder codes, and tons of small airports it will be good to have a quick place to take notes - ie tape on the leg, or binder to flip pages.

[Gomer Pylot]

Use the white medical tape from the drug store for you different notes, I.E. airport Freqs. put the tape on different parts of your pant legs, ceiling, inst. panel etc.

Whatever works for you is fine. I've tried tape on the leg, and it doesn't work for me. I just can't write legibly on something that fexible. Plus, I like to have other stuff, like frequencies, handy, and I keep approach plates for the nearby airports on my kneeboard, just in case. I've never had to go inadvertent IMC, but if I do, I know I won't have time to rummage around for one, I need it where I can get it immediately. I also use them for flying practice approaches every chance I get, because practice is the only way to be able to survive it. If tape on the leg works for you, by all means use it.

 

If you want a copy of a chart, you can find sectionals on the internet, such as at airnav.com, and you can zoom in or out to the area you need and just print the screen, or maybe even download the part you need. N. B., you still need a real sectional somewhere in the aircraft in addition to that, to be legal.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Gomer Pylot

[Liner]

How many of you use a kneeboard all of the time? I'm only in my first couple hours of R22 time, but it feels like I have to raise my right leg up to get a good platform for my arm. It feels funny and makes the pedal work feel weird.

I haven't flown in a lot of years, but I always flew with a military kneeboard with another 1" of ringed flip pages in it and that's what my arm rested on. I'm thinking of getting another one so I can raise my arm up and lower my leg back down.

I looked at the Ultimate Kneeboard and some of the others, but they look thin and flimsy -- probably good for organization, but I guess I'm old-school with my flip pages. LOL

Anybody use a military kneeboard? Anyone always use a kneeboard?

[RkyMtnHI]

Anyone always use a kneeboard?

 

 

i always use a kneeboard, even if the guy sitting next to me is pic and has his. mine is packed with all sorts of info; preflight info, emergency info, freqs, light gun rules, local maps, etc. I have one for VFR flights and another for IFR training.

 

I always remember a poster that i saw on the wall at Lockheed Martin, it said; "don't fall into the co-pilot syndrome, always be the pic, even if you are a passenger". it made total sense to me, it is easy to get complacent.. in ether seat! i come prepared to fly the helicopter at all times.

 

dp

[helorob]

This is my first post, so I hope all goes as planned....

 

I have been using something called a 'wrist coach'. Sports players use it to keep play details on their wrist during play. I keep the data for the local airports, freq's and checklists on mine. Simply print out an index card and insert. Mine has three visible 'pages' so you can keep a lot of info on-hand (wrist?). I have a spare to use for XC flights as well.

 

It goes on either arm, over a coat (needed here in wisconsin), doesn't blow away,.... and comes in fashonable colors to compliment your flight attire. Search any large online sports store for a 'wrist coach' and you'll find them. About $10 each.

 

This does not solve the chart problem, but I always prefer the tuck under the leg method for that.

[rotorrodent]

How many of you use a kneeboard all of the time? I'm only in my first couple hours of R22 time, but it feels like I have to raise my right leg up to get a good platform for my arm. It feels funny and makes the pedal work feel weird.

I haven't flown in a lot of years, but I always flew with a military kneeboard with another 1" of ringed flip pages in it and that's what my arm rested on. I'm thinking of getting another one so I can raise my arm up and lower my leg back down.

I looked at the Ultimate Kneeboard and some of the others, but they look thin and flimsy -- probably good for organization, but I guess I'm old-school with my flip pages. LOL

Anybody use a military kneeboard? Anyone always use a kneeboard?

 

When I fly the Robbies, the T handle and kneeboard always end up battling over the space. I can never get the kneeboard in a good position in the Robbie.

 

The C300 on the other hand, is perfect with a kneeboard. Doesn't interfere with the cyclic whatsoever.

 

cheers,

 

Rotorrodent

[IFLY]

Leave the left door on and keep the strings straight. Clip the chart into your kneeboard so it won't blow around if the strings don't stay straight and leave it on the seat where you can get to it.

 

I use the "Third Hand" clip from Sporty's for my startup/shutdown checklist or anything else I keep in the seat pocket to refer to inflight (approach plates).

 

Jerry

[choppedair]

I haven't used a knee-board in some time, to be honest. On long cross countries (like literally across the country), I need to be able to fold and unfold stuff a bit. Though that doesn't work well with doors off, of course.

For the local (100nm radius or so) area that I normally fly, I have all of the frequencies and runways memorized, so the sectional gets tucked in the front seat pocket where it's easily reached.

When I leave the normal comfort zone, I pre-fold my map a little and tuck it under my leg. I keep an "IFR flight file" notebook with airport diagrams and approach plates in it in the front seat pocket, as well as other important info and sticky-notes. As I get close to the airport I stuff the sectional and out comes the ifr flight file book with my other info.

http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?DI...Product_ID=5362

 

For doors off, I used an "ultimate kneeboard" with the map pre-folded on the bottom, a timer clipped to it, and my airport diagrams in the clear pages on top.

 

When all else fails, I just refer to the garmin 696 to tell me what to do, lol.

[slick1537]

I agree that in the r22 the cyclic, the kneeboard, and the collective are always battling for space when I go solo. Not an issue with another person on board since the cyclic inst so far forward and left. If using a kneeboard I fly with the door on. I try to pack it as light as possible, usually just my flight plan paper folded in half so I can read the headings and freq on it and my sectional either ontop of it or below it, depending on which one I plan to use more. Once I start putting to much stuff on it I will flip through, and half the papers fall out of the clip, then its hard to get them back in with only my left hand. Better to keep it clean and simple.

[Azhigher]

My method is simple:

 

Have a COMPLETE flight plan. (Heading, distance, ete, frequencies, drawn airport diagrams if needed, etc...)

Folded sectional underneath

 

Simple as that.

 

You don't really need a complicated knee board. A metal sheet with an elastic strap will do you just fine.

[flygirl]

I've recently completed my first x-country solo, and am looking forward to more!

My biggest problem is organization, specifically when the doors are off.

 

When the doors are on, I can put my map on the seat beside me, flight plan and notes on my kneeboard.

 

This doesn't work so well with no doors, so trying to figure out a better way to manage this.

 

My kneeboard is kinda crappy one for those silly fixed wing people (didn't know when I bought it.. stupid brain). It has flaps so when the doors are off they have a tendency to fly around.

 

Curious what the real world does for managing these things.

 

My instructor has a mountain of stuff on his kneeboard, and seeing as I'm usually flying not sure how he manages when he is PIC.. maybe just experience so he's not as nervous about taking his hands off the collective while dealing with it

 

Suggestions?

We're in an R22, so space is always limited!

 

I'm kinda new and fly Schweizer/Sikorsky 300C models, so take this with a pinch of salt.

 

I have rings in my binder and purchased additional plastic sleeves for these rings. I place my flight plan and notes in the plastic sleeves plus have additional writing paper in case I need to make more notes 'on the fly'.

 

My kneeboard is trifold, so I fold the sectional to have the relevant first part showing and clip that into my kneeboard.

 

During flight, I friction the collective once I am flying straight and level and flip through my flight plan/notes in their plastic sleeves. I also look at my sectional in neat folded sections so that it doesn't zoom out the door at high speed - I seldom open it fully. I plan ahead carefully and am normally very familiar with my sectional so I can visualise what I don't see (or refer to my notes). The weak link in the chain is that I would need to do something totally unplanned.

[Witch]

I did something kinda stupid. I found some clear vinyl and sewed them into pockets. They have velcro on the back, and I sewed some velcro on the pants legs. Put the maps and stuff in the clear pocket, slap it on your leg, and go.

[Justin DBC]

I've got a method that works out fairly well for me. The only reason I say fairly well is because fitting a kneeboard in between me and the flight controls is a major pain no matter what I do...

 

I have a tri-fold kneeboard that velcros closed when I don't need it so everything stays out of my way. I have a pilotage card format that I came up with on Excel that fits perfectly into my kneeboard. I just clip the pages in and secure them with one of those black clippy things you get from staples (sorry about the bad description... i don't know what they're called!). Printing them out when you plan your route makes them MUCH easier to read and keeps things much more organized. Just make sure you leave room to write when you need to.

 

As far as the chart... usually I leave it above the pilotage cards and just flip it up when I need freqs.

 

J-