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Hey all,

sorry if this has already been discussed and dropped by the forum, but I was wondering if anyone has been watching the History Channel show Axmen? They've been following around a heli-logging crew in Montana, and frankly, watching their pilots scares the crap out of me, especially Steve who, according to the show is at roughly 100hrs long-line (no offense Steve if you're on the forum).

I hope it's just the gimmicks in the editing of the program, trying to make everything look worse than it is, but there seems to be a serious lack of safety, logging regardless.

 

If any of you pilots with experience have anything to say (ie. yup, that's how it is in heli-logging) I'd be interested to hear your comments.

 

Who know's, maybe being a CFI is more dangerous.

 

Also, the show is available to watch online

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I saw the episode you're talking about and was wondering the same thing, it is a scary thing that they turn loose someone with little skills in the field and how bad he really was and was allowed to continue without further training.

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Ain't that on the job training?

 

And yes, they always embellish the scenerio at the end as a cliffhanger. Can you say DRAMA !!!!!

 

The cliffhanger that got me was when the lead pilot got caught in the clouds and had five minutes of fuel left. Kinda makes ya think if these guys think of safety much. Granted, it's a dangerous job, but come on, five minutes of fuel in the clouds? I think I'd like to have that fuel warning horn at 30 minutes.

 

But I digest.

 

Later

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the lead pilot got caught in the clouds and had five minutes of fuel left. Kinda makes ya think if these guys think of safety much. Granted, it's a dangerous job, but come on, five minutes of fuel in the clouds? I think I'd like to have that fuel warning horn at 30 minutes.

 

But I digest.

 

Later

 

Witch- they dont even start the day with 30 minutes of fuel. The more fuel on board, the less timber they can haul !!

 

I did speak to a gal once that started out logging in an Aircrane. She told me she puked every day for the first couple days getting used to it. Now THAT sounds FUN !!

 

Goldy

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yep, that's the one.

 

on previous episodes they've talked about Steve, the pilot with 100hrs of long line time, wrecking a helicopter due to some sort of collective malfunction, I can't recall what exactly the failure was, but it was definitely not an EP I'd studied for. So he's already starting from behind.

I'm not trying to rail on him, but, again, according to the show, he's got a bad attitude, can't ride shotgun cause he gets sick, doesn't like to have anybody riding shotgun with him (cause he gets nervous I guess), and definitely doesn't like to be told how to fly. How did this guy make it through flight training?

 

Also, his operator apparently plugged $70k into his flight training...maybe I'm just bitter 'cause last time I had $70k somebody in Las Vegas ran off with it...

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"...wrecking a helicopter due to some sort of collective malfunction..."

 

Was described as collective bounce.

 

I'm familiar with the terms mast bumping, mast rocking, spike knocking, pylon whirl, TT separation, and strap pack delamination to name a couple, but that was a new term to me. Any sages care to 'splain? Rigging? Shock through drive/controls from ext. load dynamics? Maybe it's a 204 thing.

 

-WATCH FOR THE WIRES-

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Witch- they dont even start the day with 30 minutes of fuel.

 

Goldy

 

Most of the time 45- 60min is used, if you do the math, the dead time required for refueling negates any benefit of carrying less fuel. Of course the distance to the service landing is also a factor.

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I have not seen any of the axmen shows, but I have heard several people discuss them. Here are some thoughts about the above comments:

 

It is a television show, so there will be "drama" involved to make it interesting to the watchers. There is no such thing as a low fuel horn in a Huey, just a caution light as in most Bells. There is also no "self destruct horn" like I saw on a show several years ago about a Hughes 500 crash. The TV people like to add this stuff so the public will think they have one foot in the coffin every time they get in a helicopter.

 

Helicopter logging is a production driven operation. When I was doing it, 28 turns an hour was calculated as the break even point. That is a load of logs on the landing about every 2 minutes. We had a "clicker" taped to the collective (like baseball umpires uses) and the pilot had to keep track of turns. There is not much room for fooling around in that business, so I would be surprised if "Steve" or anyone with his apparent skills and attitude would last more than 10 minutes helilogging.

 

Collective bounce is a pilot induced vibration through the rotor system not too much unlike ground resonance. The Huey has a preset friction on the collective (from memory now) of about 10 pounds. If the pilot is "stiff arming" the collective, and causes a bump (plus or minus G's) it will set up a resonance that keeps getting worse until it could cause a catostrophic failure. The simple and quick EP is to let go of the collective and the problem goes away. Most logging ships I have seen have the collective friction reduced or completely taken off so it won't wear out your arm after 4 hours of slinging. However, this is a setup for collective bounce if the pilot is not aware of the situation.

 

We used to start with 1 hour fuel with 20 min reserve. You start the "cycle" with the lighter loads and work your way to heavier turns as fuel is burned. 5 minutes fuel in the clouds sounds like another attemp at drama.

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Hi

 

It really is a form of PIO (pilot induced oscillation) and I guess it could be compared to GR but you don't get ground resonance in all rotor systems...but we already know that.

Air & Space Ground Resonance

 

PIO or Pilot error would be the box I'd check off

 

Regards,

IFlySky5

Edited by IFlySky5

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DRAMA??? 5 MINUTES OF FUEL IN THE CLOUDS???? DRAMA????

 

These shows are melodramatic and are probably a little scripted too. But still, flying in the clouds and "saying" there's five minutes of fuel left gives me pause. I can then assume that maybe these guys aren't as "professional" as we're led to believe, but rather wreckless mavericks that'll take any risk to make as much money as they can, reguardless.

 

I have to admit, people probably view helicopter pilots as cowboys, and airline pilots as the most professional and safe pilots that can land airplanes on water and be heros.

 

But I digest.

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Hi

 

I agree with the statements made here...and all I can say is I wouldn't want a visit from FSDO after he/she sees the series!

 

Regards,

IFlySky5

Edited by IFlySky5

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As far as the flyers being scripted...I dunno about that...the guys flying don't seem to need any script to keep things interesting...last episode I watched the hook hit one of the pieces of equipment on the ground pretty hard. There was also a shot of the load being brought in to the landing horizontally, as opposed to straight up and down, knocking off limbs and bending tree tops, then swinging the load around the landing pendulum style...maybe that's just a part of the job.

Americium95 have you ever done that while logging?

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I guess we all agree with what we have seen on TV about Steve "true or not " is NOT creating a good reputation for conners Aviation in public.....

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yea they definetly could have said in the program that even though the guy is a cerficated pilot that long lining is an extremely difficult art instead of just throwing him under the bus. i'm just saying you gotta start learning somehow, not that he wasn't unsafe or whatever, just its not easy and on the job training is about the only way to figure it out.

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Witch

The phrase is "I digress"

I keep thinking you had too big of a meal or something... I let it go the first time.

I guess I'm the grammar police today.

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Talk about creative editing....

 

I especially like the clip where the engine out light is shown with lots of warning buzzers and a shaking camera to add drama and........as far as i could tell it ended up being a chip light. If i remember right it was a 3-4 min scene and they showed about 2 seconds of the mechanics working on it then it was back flying again. Saying it wasn't something life threatening would have lowered the drama factor.

 

Steve, the new logging pilot of the show, posted on another website awhile back trying to defend himself. I feel bad for him. For all i know he could be a great guy and a great pilot that happened to bend one up last year after mechanical problems. I'm sure not going to pass judgement on a guy based on a TV show doing as much editing as possible trying to get good ratings.

 

Real or Dramatized, some of the scenes do bring up odd situations that are worth discussing. Fuel carried, loads carried, flight in snow etc

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Witch

The phrase is "I digress"

I keep thinking you had too big of a meal or something... I let it go the first time.

I guess I'm the grammar police today.

 

 

Maybe he just ate something?

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Yes, I did just ate. It was really good eats too.

 

And again I digest.

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According to an e-mail I got from Ryan Conner, the 100 hours mentioned was in ref. to heli-logging time.

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Yes, I did just ate. It was really good eats too.

 

And again I digest.

 

You should of said:

 

"Now I crap" :)

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You should of said:

 

"Now I crap" :)

That's next week

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