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A fascist believes in legal and illegal. A humanitarian believes in right and wrong. Which one are you?

 

Laws are created by corporate controlled governments and written to appease the masses while screwing them over.

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rmiller... voting is good but it isn't all of it. You have elected representatives and it is up to you to see that they represent you. I'll let RMP defend himself or not I don't know him. what I'm saying is that all of those screaming protesters are going through the historical, constitutional, and proper channels. right up until the break windows and throw rocks that is. I'm saying you can't defend people who protest when you agree and say love it or leave it when you don't. that would be hypocritical. All public demonstrations are and must be a legitimate part of our process and important to our national identity whether we agree with them or not.

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A fascist believes in legal and illegal. A humanitarian believes in right and wrong. Which one are you?

 

Laws are created by corporate controlled governments and written to appease the masses while screwing them over.

 

Sorry dude you got it backwards. A Fascist in fact believes in right and wrong and that any measure can be taken to protect what is right which is where restrictive and un-just laws come in if they gain power. further more a humanitarian is not opposite a fascist, a libertarian is.

Edited by beckwith
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I believe in upholding and living by the laws and the Constitution of the United States. That makes me whatever you want to call me...I'm happy with it, and sleep well at night. You call whatever it is that you uphold and believe whatever you want to call it and we'll call it a day... Do what you do to advocate the change that you see fit, and as long as it is not breaking the law....we will probably never cross paths which is ok with me. Believe me...I have been called much worse than a facist...But I still go out and do my job so the "humanitarians" can have their protests, Just as all the other Military Personnel and Police Officers do every day.

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Beckwith-I agree with you...I am not saying that they cannot protest and question government...I am just saying that I don't particularly agree with it. That's another wonderful freedom of this country! It bothers me when I work to keep those people safe during their protest, and they turn around and talk about how the cops are just jack booted thugs that want to take their freedom....really? When it gets to the point of breaking windows and burning cars, then they must expect that the full force of the legal system will be brought to bear against what has now become a riot.

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A fascist believes in legal and illegal. A humanitarian believes in right and wrong. Which one are you?

 

Laws are created by corporate controlled governments and written to appease the masses while screwing them over.

 

Well now it seems like you are just trolling. This I've respected your passion in your posts thus far regardless of my own opinions but you're quickly diminishing your credability. I'm quite fond of the vast majoriy of the laws in effect in the U.S.; the country I love. Traffic laws appease the masses? I say it keeps us safe. Tax laws (while obviously vulnerable to certain corruptions and scandals as anywhere else) pay for our government's ability to defend our (your's and mine) freedom. I wonder how "humanitarian" things would be without our laws. Ask a Somalian.

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Sorry dude you got it backwards. A Fascist in fact believes in right and wrong and that any measure can be taken to protect what is right which is where restrictive and un-just laws come in if they gain power. further more a humanitarian is not opposite a fascist, a libertarian is.

 

WHAT? Go look up some of the words used here please.

 

Wiki: Fascist governments forbid and suppress criticism and opposition to the government and the fascist movement.

 

I am sure you won't know this unless you are actually a protester, but our government has severely suppressed free speech in this country with "free-speech" zones. The two party oligarchy is not representative of the people of this country. Most people I know vote against the other party instead of in favor of the person they feel is the best person for the job. Our government rules by fear cleverly disguised as choice.

 

I have never been harassed by a criminal. I have been harassed and illegally threatened to have my freedom taken away from many many cops. I don't think all cops are criminals. I have met a few who know the difference between right and wrong. But most cops I have encountered are egotistical power hungry narcissists who use the law for their own personal agenda.

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I believe in upholding and living by the laws and the Constitution of the United States. That makes me whatever you want to call me...I'm happy with it, and sleep well at night. You call whatever it is that you uphold and believe whatever you want to call it and we'll call it a day... Do what you do to advocate the change that you see fit, and as long as it is not breaking the law....we will probably never cross paths which is ok with me. Believe me...I have been called much worse than a facist...But I still go out and do my job so the "humanitarians" can have their protests, Just as all the other Military Personnel and Police Officers do every day.

 

 

The only people who have ever harassed me at any protest to the point that I felt threatened have been cops.

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"I have never been harassed by a criminal. I have been harassed and illegally threatened to have my freedom taken away from many many cops. I don't think all cops are criminals. I have met a few who know the difference between right and wrong. But most cops I have encountered are egotistical power hungry narcissists who use the law for their own personal agenda."

Explain to me how in a brief encounter with a police officer, you could deduce that he or she is an egotistical power hungry narcissist who is using the the law for his own personal agenda.

 

That statement is a generalization based solely on a personal bias based on the chosen profession of an individual. That sounds a lot like racism to me..

 

"The only people who have ever harassed me at any protest to the point that I felt threatened have been cops."

 

The only people who have thrown rocks and bottles and threatened me at protests were protesters...hmm

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The only people who have ever harassed me at any protest to the point that I felt threatened have been cops.

 

RMP,

 

I have been on the other side. Many years ago, I was flying a fire when I had my aircraft sabotaged by an unknown party by their stuffing of paper towels into my oil tank. They were protesting the Forest service policy of putting out fires instead of letting them burn. Plus they also protesting the lumber companies clear cutting activities. These people endangered not only me but many innocent people by their actions, which included the spiking of trees and sabotage of logging equipment and operations. The trees in question were NOT old growth timber and were on land owned by the lumber companies. I had and still have relatives who work in the woods and I take offense of those people who by criminal and/or reckless endangerment, threaten the lives of honest working people.

 

In many cases there are hearing to discuss these issues. However, many of these protesters do not attend or if they do attend try to disrupt these hearings. These forums have rules to allow ALL interested parties to have their say. Just because you disagree, does not give you the right to disrupt the testimony of others. Even though they disagree with you, they just as much right to bring out their point of view. Some of these rules are not allowing disruptions, no screaming or yelling, no stunts, factual evidence and the like.

 

Personally, I have found my FREE speech restricted more by protesters than by the government. I find it offensive that any group would belittle someone for their point of view if it differs from the group's. The police are their to keep the peace and enforce the laws. And while there have been police officers that have over stepped their authority, the same can be said about the protesters. Just like at the recent G8, G20 and WTO meetings and the actions of the protesters.

 

As for Watson and his people, the Captain of the Japanese ship can legally file a complaint with the Japanese government and the government of Japan could request the extradition of these protesters to Japan for trial. One thing about many protesters in the past, they knew they were committing a crime and when they got caught, tried and convicted, they don't whine about the injustice. They took their lumps.

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Explain to me how in a brief encounter with a police officer, you could deduce that he or she is an egotistical power hungry narcissist who is using the the law for his own personal agenda.

 

That statement is a generalization based solely on a personal bias based on the chosen profession of an individual. That sounds a lot like racism to me..

 

The only people who have thrown rocks and bottles and threatened me at protests were protesters...hmm

 

 

Whoever said they were brief encounters? I deal with the same cops over and over again. I have filed dozens of complaints for abuse of power that go nowhere.

 

Racism is bias toward a race. Your profession is not a race, it is a choice. If you were a child molester, I wouldn't think highly of you, and no one would consider my opinion to be generalized.

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RMP,

 

I have been on the other side. Many years ago, I was flying a fire when I had my aircraft sabotaged by an unknown party by their stuffing of paper towels into my oil tank. They were protesting the Forest service policy of putting out fires instead of letting them burn. Plus they also protesting the lumber companies clear cutting activities. These people endangered not only me but many innocent people by their actions, which included the spiking of trees and sabotage of logging equipment and operations. The trees in question were NOT old growth timber and were on land owned by the lumber companies. I had and still have relatives who work in the woods and I take offense of those people who by criminal and/or reckless endangerment, threaten the lives of honest working people.

 

In many cases there are hearing to discuss these issues. However, many of these protesters do not attend or if they do attend try to disrupt these hearings. These forums have rules to allow ALL interested parties to have their say. Just because you disagree, does not give you the right to disrupt the testimony of others. Even though they disagree with you, they just as much right to bring out their point of view. Some of these rules are not allowing disruptions, no screaming or yelling, no stunts, factual evidence and the like.

 

Personally, I have found my FREE speech restricted more by protesters than by the government. I find it offensive that any group would belittle someone for their point of view if it differs from the group's. The police are their to keep the peace and enforce the laws. And while there have been police officers that have over stepped their authority, the same can be said about the protesters. Just like at the recent G8, G20 and WTO meetings and the actions of the protesters.

 

As for Watson and his people, the Captain of the Japanese ship can legally file a complaint with the Japanese government and the government of Japan could request the extradition of these protesters to Japan for trial. One thing about many protesters in the past, they knew they were committing a crime and when they got caught, tried and convicted, they don't whine about the injustice. They took their lumps.

 

 

Rick,

 

I hate to say this, but as fascism spreads and free speech is eliminated, more and more protesters will become violent. I am one of the few people I know who understand how someone can be driven to being a suicide bomber. I don't agree with it, but I understand. They are protesting something with violence because they have had all other avenues cut off. The people with the might don't have to listen to anyone, and people are driven mad by living in repression. I don't believe in terrorist. I believe they are no different then any solider fighting a battle for what they believe in, no matter how misguided it may be. However, ignoring them only worsens the problem and that is the policy of most governments.

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Since encounter can be defined as to meet an adversary or to come in confrontation with, I would not expect that you would have the chance to get to know the officer as a person, while having said "encounter"

 

 

Maybe your complaints for abuse of power went nowhere because after being investigated, they were unfounded....It is possible that the perceived abuse of power was only apparent to you. However I would not be surprised to learn that you think that it is just the Police Department covering up for one of its own..another case of government conspiracy against the people!

 

Also, just to clarify...I did not say what you were doing WAS racism...I said it sounded alot like racism....Forming a prejudicial opinion of someone based solely on xyz...

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Since encounter can be defined as to meet an adversary or to come in confrontation with, I would not expect that you would have the chance to get to know the officer as a person, while having said "encounter"

 

 

Maybe your complaints for abuse of power went nowhere because after being investigated, they were unfounded....It is possible that the perceived abuse of power was only apparent to you. However I would not be surprised to learn that you think that it is just the Police Department covering up for one of its own..another case of government conspiracy against the people!

 

Also, just to clarify...I did not say what you were doing WAS racism...I said it sounded alot like racism....Forming a prejudicial opinion of someone based solely on xyz...

 

Oh, you just form a prejudicial opinion based solely on xyz. Being a little bit hypocritical, don't you think?

 

Actually, I assume the best from people which is what always gets me screwed. There are several cops whom I admire and I think they are the ideal police officer. They approach the law from the perspective that it is there to protect the people. The only time a complaint of abuse has ever gone anywhere is when one of those officers backed our story. They are not much liked by their fellow officers. I wonder why?

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I'll tell ya why...because cops who toe the line hate crooked cops more than the general public...and we want them gone as bad as you do...

 

 

The only opinion I have formed of you comes from your words on this page...you were the one making generalizations saying "most cops" I directed my comments solely at you regarding your encounter with the police....

 

Thanks for taking the time to have this spirited discussion....I feel that it is descending past the point of being productive however...as we seem to have gotten far off the path of the original post....im out!

 

Ryan

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I'll tell ya why...because cops who toe the line hate crooked cops more than the general public...and we want them gone as bad as you do...

 

 

The only opinion I have formed of you comes from your words on this page...you were the one making generalizations saying "most cops" I directed my comments solely at you regarding your encounter with the police....

 

Thanks for taking the time to have this spirited discussion....I feel that it is descending past the point of being productive however...as we seem to have gotten far off the path of the original post....im out!

 

Ryan

 

It is descending past the point of being productive because you are using such tactics as twisting my words. What I said was "most cops I have encountered", not most cops. Big difference.

 

The cops that defend us are not the cooked cops. The ones who threatened and harassed us were. We have made it a point to video tape all of our protests. It is amazing how well it puts those cops on their best behavior.

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Rocky Mountain Pilot.

 

I respect you and your pilot skills...just so you know.

 

But as far as the show goes...I think it's junk. I think that Captain is a fat liar.

 

I do a lot to save the world...too much to list here.

 

But I still get to have my opinion on the show. yes?

 

thanks. I appreciate your comments...just making sure you appreciate mine too.

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Getting back to the real topic. I wouldn't fly with a large dent in the blade. I don't get paid test-pilot wages, I'm not performing test-pilot duties. Ain't no way.

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67,

You sure know how to spoil a party. As far as the boarding of a ship without permission goes, what happened to "Ahoy there, Permission to come aboard"? I think this is the age old tried and true way to approach anothers ship. How would you like it if someone came storming toward your helicopter and just jumped in and sat down? It would cause me great concern and probably cause them great bodily injury. rmiller, thanks for your service. rmp, don't come toward my helicopter without first stating your intentions.

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Wow, all this because of a bent tail rotor! Well, since everyone else is chiming in, I might as well, too. I agree with Deerock that the crew and capt. of the Sea Shephard are doing conservation a disservice. I watched all of the episodes of Whale Wars because I love whales, and sure, some may be around for another 100 years, but I believe that whales are intelligent, social, and communicative beings that shouldn't be slaughtered unnecessarily. I wish I had the passion about anything that the crew of the Sea Shephard has for protecting whales, but at some point, it does become terrorism. Whether sabotaging trucks and helicopters, or damaging ships, these tactics go beyond protest and civil disobedience.

 

In the last episode, the capt. claimed to have taken a round in his bullet proof vest from a Japanese sailor. It was highly dubious. Acts like this hurt their credibility, and the credibility of all conservation groups. Even Green Peace doesn't agree with the Sea Shephard's tactics. Believing in something so much that you are willing to commit a crime is the ends justifying the means, which I believe is how we got into the Iraq war and torture. Thats how people justify putting bombs in abortion clinics and killing innocent people.

 

Before you judge me, I have to say that I am a former Marine with two brothers in law enforcement (a detective and a special agent), and I was a former Forest Service wildlife biologist. I also want to emphasize that I am not including protest or civil disobedience in my criticism.

 

I admire Rocky Mountain Pilot for his conviction and willingness to stand up for his beliefs. I probably even share them. But there is a limit to what one can do when one feels as though their views have been ignored or violated. Going beyond that limit risks decending into terrorism, anarchy, and civil war. There, I said it. But I got to admit, a small part of me wishes I was on that boat flying helicopters and hanging out with the enviro chicks.

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