shanesplanet Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 I was having a conversation with my bosses today and the topic came up of opening a new route. They feel that because the POH says 14k DA the 44 should be able to land at those with all seats occupied. I am looking to see what other guys are experiencing with full seats. How high is the ceiling really? Thanks for the replies. I want to get some opinions of people who been there done that.Thanks Shane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Hughes Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 Which R44 is it? Any R44 with 4 seats filled at 14k would be a nice dream. The best plan is to go with what the Hover Ige chart says for PA/Temp(DA) for a given gross. If you can't hover IGE for the weight your bosses want you to fly with then you will need a running landing/takeoff to a runway at your destination/departure point. If you're taking on with that then you will have little to no power reserves when you need it for the "what if" situations. Bosses can be difficult to talk to about this stuff, especially non-pilots. Ask your bosses just how close they want you to be to balling up their ship for a given operation!! That probably won't work but it might give them some insight the type of margins you're dealing with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanesplanet Posted May 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 I showed them the IGE & OGE charts but it just confused them that's why I wanted to get some experience stories to support the discussion. They ultimately listen to me but I just want to share some anecdotes to help draw them down the path. It is a Raven II btw.Shane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Hughes Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 14K is the critical altitude, which if I'm not mistaken is defined as the altitude above which the chopper cannot maintain more than a 100ft/min climb. I've been in a Raven 1 at 13k with only 2 of us on board and not a lot of fuel and there wasn't much left in her. I know there's more in the Raven II but with 4 on board I'd say you'll struggle to climb much further. How about taking them up with 4 seats filled and show them how much power you're pulling to get 100ft/min climb versus hovering IGE or OGE at lower altitudes. They'll see the hover will take a lot more than the climb. Then take them above 10k or 12k so they can see the horn come on as you try to climb, then they will see that that's all there is up there and that it wouldn't be possible to hover even IGE. Or just sit them down and give em' a good old fashioned ground lesson on performance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanesplanet Posted June 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Yeah they called me last night and I went over with it again with them and they got it finally. Then asked how much turbine time I had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOATFIXERGUY Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Tell them that you can do it. You'll need an additional $3 million and you'll put an R44 sticker on the side of an AS350B3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikemv Posted June 1, 2009 Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 Dear Shane, so what does turbine time have to do with anything? The more seats you have, the more they will want to fill. What kind of ops require you to have 3 pax on board in a R44 and be at 14K DA? How much fuel can you carry? Remember our Turbine ops in Idaho and Montana? We never could have filled all the seats and the fuel tank too! For high & hot in my B407 I would only use 5 seats max, limit fuel and check DA's and plan a lot prior to ops. In the EC120 you flew, I limited ops to 3 seats and operated to 9,800' DA again limiting fuel loading and controlling GW. For ops in a R44, I would set some parameters well below MGW for ops at 14K! Do the R44 charts even go to 14K at MGW? Another option to consider is renting a helo for the limited ops at 14K and using the R44 for standard ops annually. Let me know what is going on with you now. Are you out of the country? Be safe, remember what I taught you, Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanesplanet Posted June 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 (edited) I think they were just thinking out loud. I was able to sit with them and show them what I was talking about. They understand about the limits. I think they understand that just because they have room for 3 doesn't really mean 3. Hey Mike I used our Provo takeoff to get my point across that is when the light when off. They are doing mostly tours over here and they have some pretty high villages they wanted to operate from. This is a new company so they brainstorm a lot. I was mainly trying to head off the lets go higher and higher problem. As far as turbine time goes they were trying to make a joke I guess. (language barrier) Hey Mike, I will always remember the fights we had. In fact I was showing the pics of the reef today. I got to the country about two weeks ago and like it so far. It is a very chaotic place but I like it a lot. How is the fishing this year? When I get back I am going to swing by and see my dad so I will shoot you an e-mail maybe you can show me how it is done. Shane Edited June 1, 2009 by shanesplanet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.