RkyMtnHI Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 Hey all, i hope this hasn't been done yet, can't imagine it not being covered but i wanted to get fresh ideas as things are changing dramatically in our industry. I am currently organizing a new school at KBJC and would like to be sure and know all the good stuff to put in place. Please keep it positive, but i want the good the bad and the ugly!! thanks for all your input! dp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copter doctor Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 I don't know the financial situation for statring the school, but if possible I think having an option of aircraft is important. I did my pvt. in a 22 and comm. in a 300cbi. I think if you put in the effort to get 141 and VA approval it opens up the potential for more students and if you can be affiliated with a college, it could open up more financing options for students. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADRidge Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 I really like places where you can check the schedule online. Vortex had that, and it was quite handy. I know that's a fairly small thing, but it's the first thing that has come to mind. I'll come back with more useful stuff after lunch, I'm sure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helonorth Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 Good instructors. Good equipment. Good location. Simulator. Fair prices. Good maintenance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clay Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 don't let anyone named Dennis run it. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOATFIXERGUY Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 don't let anyone named Dennis run it. . . Good one. Come'on Clay... Dennis doesn't know if you're being mean or just kidding. That's why he hasn't responded back yet. Dennis, Clay is serious I'm sure! Ok, you already have a good idea on what you need to do, plus you have some good people there. I can go on and on about flight training in Colorado (do's and dont's), having tried it for 10 years. You would need an entire server dedicated just for this topic or we'd crash Lyn's site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam32 Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 Cheap rates... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikemv Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 Dear DP, I think it would be helpful if you would state the goals of the school that you are putting together so we can offer some serious input. Do you have a business plan? Financial resources? What ratings are you going to offer under Part 61? How many aircraft will you have? How many Instructors? Any higher time CFI's? Any CFI's that can make CFI's? Any CFI's with real world experience? Part 141 will not happen until you are in business for 2 years! I have put flight schools and air taxi operations together and can offer more advice if desired but I must know your goals rather than listing every posssibility or scenario! Best of Luck, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick1537 Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Most important thing is an experienced mechanic on hand to answer flight instructor questions and keep the ships running in tip top shape. Beyond that I would say a very clean and professional facility and aircraft. One thing they do at my training facility I don't think you see at a lot of other schools is cookouts with pilots inside the industry. We have had fly-ins from our local EMS helicopter, news helicopter, and even a KMAX, where we got to chat with the crew and check out the ships. Something pretty cool to draw your students in and keep them interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 1.Love the cook out idea....or maybe I just love to eat. 2. Don't hire anyone named Clay as your CP. 3. Ditto the online schedule. Many times I wanted to go fly at the last minute and couldnt get ahold of anyone..like a nice Sunday afternoon. Poof... you could have just made $400 bucks..your loss! 4. Have a key box so students/pilots can access a secure part of the school. ..coffee pot, bathroom and keys to the helicopters are what I need when I'm flying and no one is around. 5. Did I mention to not hire anyone named Clay as your CP? Goldy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOATFIXERGUY Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 5. Did I mention to not hire anyone named Clay as your CP? Goldy My thoughts exactly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkyMtnHI Posted June 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 You guys are great!!! i know Clay is serious and i still don't care!!! i have taken so long to respond as i am working 15 hour days and just got internet this afternoon at the hangar. i appreciate all of your inputs, seriously. i got a few private posts with some great ideas as well.. i especially like the one about having some real world training like photo flights and off airport ops. both Clay at Elite and Jack at Rocky Mountain Rotorcraft have sites off airport that they do real world flying skills at!!! I love that idea and applaud them for it, well, maybe not Clay, but certainly Jack. :-) there are some great ideas on this post already and i look forward to some more. i love the cookout idea.. gonna use that one for sure!! Mikemv, thanks much for your input, lots of great questions of course, i will try to answer some now and get to the others asap!! i almost fell asleep on the way home today... so i gotta get some rest. here goes: Dear DP, I think it would be helpful if you would state the goals of the school that you are putting together so we can offer some serious input. whew, i could write a book on this one.. but in a nutshell: a safe haven for the people that have not been treated so well (students, instructors and ac owners). a completely transparent system so there is no questions about where the money is. a fun place to be. the best training environment we can put together, one that can address real world situations as much as possible in a safe way. Do you have a business plan? yes Financial resources? yes What ratings are you going to offer under Part 61? as many as we can How many aircraft will you have? two now, at least three more when the smoke clears. (three 300s, two R44's). Working on a couple of turbines but not too hard, i have learned that i need to know much more about everything on that issue. How many Instructors? six right now Any higher time CFI's? yes, one ATP, two others with over 1300, the rest around 300hrs Any CFI's that can make CFI's? yep Any CFI's with real world experience? yes, two GOM one Tour Part 141 will not happen until you are in business for 2 years! i have hired a consultant that has put two together already, working on that NOW! I have put flight schools and air taxi operations together and can offer more advice if desired but I must know your goals rather than listing every posssibility or scenario! Mike i know a little about your experience and sincere generosity and would be thrilled for any of your help/input... thanks. Best of Luck, Mike thanks to everyone... please keep the ideas coming. aloha, dp ps, if i left anyone or any good ideas out please keep in mind i am exhausted and sincerely appreciate your input (except Clay's). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelFire_91 Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Hey Dp, I knew it was only a matter of time!!! I knew it! I'm sure that with the experience you have in running business' it would be one hellofa good school. So here are my suggestions: 1. I agree with all the above.2. Hire Me!3. I would definitely have the ability to let people rent the heli's, for a reasonable amount. I realize that has a lot to do with insurance, but it's always nice to be able to do a little sunday flying with the fam.4. Did I mention Hire Me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkyMtnHI Posted June 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Hey Dp, I knew it was only a matter of time!!! I knew it! I'm sure that with the experience you have in running business' it would be one hellofa good school. thanks for the vote of confidence.. i almost didn't have any choice!! :-) So here are my suggestions: 1. I agree with all the above.2. Hire Me! i hope i can!! you would deserve it. 3. I would definitely have the ability to let people rent the heli's, for a reasonable amount. I realize that has a lot to do with insurance, but it's always nice to be able to do a little sunday flying without an instructor on board. i totally agree, the issues i see are the few that hurt the majority. my insurance is ok with it but some aircraft owners are not, especially after two overspeeds on R44s at a local school here. i think keeping closer track of everything will help in this area but we have some trust issues to overcome. thanks, come see us!!! dp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clay Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 why do I feel that I'm being picked on, and possibly singled out for my input? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highaltrotor Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 (edited) 1. Honesty, I'm so sick of dishonest flight schools. Stop milking students for all they are worth and pissing them off so they leave 2. Get hooked up with a local community college and go 141 asap. Loan companies are looking for more legitament schools to give money to than a few years ago and I believe this is where the industry is going. 3. Keep your CFI's happy and it will rub off on the customers. 4. Remember, students are CUSTOMERS and they can go wherever they like so you must provide something better than the next guy. Good luck with the new school! Edited June 12, 2009 by highaltrotor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikemv Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 What makes a good flight school????? Simply Stated: From the School's standpoint, one that is SAFE, Perpetuates and can meet all of the Student/Course Goals/Objectives and makes a profit! From the Students standpoint, one that is SAFE, provides adequate training environments both in flight and on the ground to meet their goals/objectives. More than Simple: Beyond this, any other items are extras! Extras are nice but not really required to get Flight Certificates. Instructors have two mandated goals, to promote Safety and provide the training for Certification of Airmen. Now, having stated the above, I realize that anything that makes the daily operation of a flight school more pleasant and functional from either the School's/Student's view is a plus but variable. I believe that any school must look at their operating expenses and have a marketing plan/effort to keep potential students enrolling/training on a time frame that allows the school continous operations. Many responses have been posted about what students want! They are not all required. If students would approach flight training like going to a University for an Education, they would see that the Goal/Objective is attainable through study and diligence. DP, I am off all summer thru early November, let me know if I can help via e-mail at mikefranz@embarqmail.com Best to All, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highaltrotor Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Many responses have been posted about what students want! They are not all required. If students would approach flight training like going to a University for an Education, they would see that the Goal/Objective is attainable through study and diligence. If flight schools would provide the students with a university atmosphere, then the students might feel more compelled to have the attitude you speak of. Unfortunately it is rarely seen in this industry right now. The image that is put out by the school is what the students will pick up on and carry on to put out when they are instructors. The students are your customers, and in this economy, they have the upper hand right now. Dropping 80K to go to school that is located in the corner of a beaten down hangar and instructors in jeans and t shirts and backwards baseball caps just isn't gonna cut it anymore. I don't care how good the training is. The helicopter flight training industry needs to acquire more legitamacy. There is a lot to overcome right now and the old "They need us" mentality ain't gonna cut it anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captkirkyota Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 instructors in jeans and t shirts and backwards baseball caps just isn't gonna cut it anymore. I don't care how good the training is. Not trying to be a tool, but I'd actually PREFER that type of school. Mine was in between that casual and flight suit wearing, but I have worn shorts 99 percent of the last 15 years of my life year round, with the exception of the winter I lived in ID. I have never until last year ever owned anything nicer that a "dress" pair of jeans ( ie a new pair only worn a time or 2, so really it all depends on what type a person you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOATFIXERGUY Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Yes Clay, you're being picked on...you started it... Back to the topic, one thing I always did for guys building time was rewarding outstanding performance and "hangar rats" that were always around pitching in just for the love of being around aviation. After they helped with a hundred hour, oil change, etc, let them do the MOC flight and sign the aircraft off. They learn more than just flying that way too. You always have opportunities of an empty seat when moving a bird for maintenance, scouting, etc. If I didn't have anything going on, sometimes I would say, "Hey Heath (one of my best employees ever), want to go fly?" He never said no! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 ditto the time building aspect. get some powerline contracts to help with the bottom line of the business and to give your CFI's some real world experience and a way to build up some hours and earn some money. or take one of your better employees and a helicopter to the local county fair to do ride hops. or give scenic tours to the locals ( not sure if that is 135 territory or not ) these are the kind of things I have the possibility of doing for the guy I'm taking lessons from. in other words find ways to help support the business other that flight training and give guys the chance to build up experience without having to fight over the new student with the other CFI's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldy Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Couple Things. 1. Yes Clay, I'm picking on you, but I'll buy you a beer next time I see you, so its ok. 2. DP, glad youre working so hard, being retired and all. Get the school complete before my personal inspection the first week in Sept. 3. Overspeeds in a 44 ? Never happen unless you're flying gov off in turbulence, or practicing autos...neither of which a renter should be doing. Gotta get to bed now, flying up the coast to Santa Barbara in the morning...hey, somebody has to do it ! Goldy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeschmoeheli Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 If you can get contracts from overseas to bring in students from India, China, Japan , wherever it can greatly increase your revenue. Have someone on staff who is in charge of financial aid. Maybe a guidance counselor who can answer questions and help people out. Provide training in both Robbies and Scweitzers. Maybe have a turbine for commercial applications if you can justify it. Offer fixedwing training as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clay Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 Hire ME BWAHAHAHAHAHAH (evil laugh). . . just joking. I enjoy where I'm at, and have no plans to move . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick1128 Posted June 13, 2009 Report Share Posted June 13, 2009 One item that has not been discussed is to have one or two people that handle all student inquiries. And try to keep them busy recruiting. To have every instructor handling student inquiries makes for an inconstant product. Not every person is a salesperson. I am not saying not to bring the instructor into the process. But do it much later. Have someone who's job it is to sell training do the job and leave the instructors to instruct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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