Shawn Adams Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Hello all.. I just got my Helicopter Private and my goal is to go all the way the ladder and fly professionally... Right now I fly the R-44 II and am getting checked out in the MD500's. I'm just wondering how I can get hours built up.. I want to get my CFI since I know that is a great way, but until then.... is it often for people to have low time pilots ferry their machines around as long as there was no money paid to the pilot (if so, buy me a plane ticket home and I'll take your helicopter anywhere you want for nothing but the time:) ).. Any other advice? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom22 Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 (edited) Watch out! You might be gaining an economic advantage by ferrying an aircraft free of charge and having somebody buy you plane ticket home. That is assuming you just have a PPL. Edited July 31, 2009 by Tom22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Adams Posted July 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 I've been told that doing that is okay since no money would be paid to me to fly. But I will look into the FARs and see what I can dig up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom22 Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 I've been told that doing that is okay since no money would be paid to me to fly. But I will look into the FARs and see what I can dig up. If you have access to Federal Aviation Regulations Explained by Kent S. Jackson look on page 167-168. It’s a Jeppesen publication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodoz Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 If you have access to Federal Aviation Regulations Explained by Kent S. Jackson look on page 167-168. It’s a Jeppesen publication. He's right: compensation goes beyond just the exchange of cash. The AOPA Legal Briefs archive contains some examples where the FAA has gone after private pilots (and commercial pilots, working for free, who are providing charter services without 135 authorization) who received some other form of compensation for their services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Adams Posted July 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Well, if that's the case, it may just mean that I dig into some of my own personal frequent flyer miles.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom22 Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Well, if that's the case, it may just mean that I dig into some of my own personal frequent flyer miles.... Hey Shawn I don’t mean to shoot you down bro but the FAA will consider the act of building time via ferrying an aircraft free of charge compensation. Check your insurance coverage to ensure that they do not consider what you are doing is for compensation or hire. If it is, they might deny your coverage in the event of an accident. I just want to keep you informed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom22 Posted August 1, 2009 Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 I posted an article awhile back about what constitutes compensation. http://www.avweb.com/news/avlaw/186346-1.html#Section4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Adams Posted August 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2009 I posted an article awhile back about what constitutes compensation. http://www.avweb.com/news/avlaw/186346-1.html#Section4Good info.. Thanks... I'm very happy not to break, or potentially break any rules.. The more I know the better.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanFoster Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Shawn- I just saw you post and I said...I know that guy! I have been following your progession into helicopters and am happy for you. Others.....Shawn is a go getter...and a true professional. You ought to see his cinemaphotography work with rotorcraft. Stan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COhelipilot Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 Hey guysI think beyond the legal matters surrounding ferrying helicopters without a commercial ticket we need to look at the benefits of spending that time with a qualified CFI. As a DPE I see all different types of heli pilots come in for ratings. I really feal that bulding time in straight and level flight, although cheap, is not what we want our future commercial pilots to be doing. If you were hiring a Doctor, would you want one who had gone to school and learned everything he needed and more or would you want one who just showed up and put in the minimum time needed to get a piece of paper calling him a doctor. I feel very passionately that we must refocus ourselves on the quality and not the quantity. A pilot who can meet PTS minimums has done just that... the minimum required by the FAA to recieve the rating. I have great respect for thoes individuals who, in any field, go well beyond the minimums and make very sure that they are doing what they need to do to constatnly improve on their trade. I paid for all my flight training out of pocket as well and I understand the frustration associated with trying to come up with $70k. However, if the goal is to become a helicopter professional I believe we should put our efforts into creating high quality individuals not just PTS minimum pilots. I would much prefer a pilot who has spent 100 hours doing constant practice of maneuvers and mastering the helicopter, over one who has flown from point a to point b. Just my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Adams Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Shawn- I just saw you post and I said...I know that guy! I have been following your progession into helicopters and am happy for you. Others.....Shawn is a go getter...and a true professional. You ought to see his cinemaphotography work with rotorcraft. StanHi Stan.. Thanks for the props.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOATFIXERGUY Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 However, if the goal is to become a helicopter professional I believe we should put our efforts into creating high quality individuals not just PTS minimum pilots. I would much prefer a pilot who has spent 100 hours doing constant practice of maneuvers and mastering the helicopter, over one who has flown from point a to point b. Just my opinion I couldn't agree more! For you CFI's in the pattern....leave it! Get the students away from the airport. Coming into the base at the end of a long day, I can tell you every single CFI/Comm that built their 1,000 hours in the pattern of an airport just by looking at how they come into the base. They fly like students instead of professional pilots. Oh, and welcome to the forum COhelipilot. john p.s. and back to the original topic. You cannot receive any type of favor or compensation for any type of work involving piloting as a private. Just consider it a learning experience and pay your own way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pogue Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 I couldn't agree more! For you CFI's in the pattern....leave it! Get the students away from the airport. Coming into the base at the end of a long day, I can tell you every single CFI/Comm that built their 1,000 hours in the pattern of an airport just by looking at how they come into the base. They fly like students instead of professional pilots.Just playing devils advocate here, but I'm missing the connection between PTS standards and time building. If you're a CFI flying with a Private, Commercial or Instrument student, i.e, on their dime, it seems to me that it's your responsibility to progress them when they can meet the standards consistently. Yes, that's going to require a fair amount of time in the pattern, along with time doing off airport and cross country. When you're teaching commercial or CFI students the bar is certainly higher, but you're still spending someone elses money. Now if your talking someone who is going to rent a helicopter and fly the same 2 hour cross country 500 times, yeah they're going to be somewhat limited... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helonorth Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 I agree. An approach is an approach. Either you do it right or you do it wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Adams Posted August 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 I guess I'll just buy a helicopter.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick McWilliams Posted August 5, 2009 Report Share Posted August 5, 2009 Considering buying a helicopter... That is just plain nuts. You will fit in well with this group. Many of the helicopter pilots that I know have only flown in the local area. I think that cross country delivery flights will add another dimension to your aeronautical knowledge. You will gain an interest in weather systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin DBC Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 Just playing devils advocate here, but I'm missing the connection between PTS standards and time building. If you're a CFI flying with a Private, Commercial or Instrument student, i.e, on their dime, it seems to me that it's your responsibility to progress them when they can meet the standards consistently. Yes, that's going to require a fair amount of time in the pattern, along with time doing off airport and cross country. When you're teaching commercial or CFI students the bar is certainly higher, but you're still spending someone elses money. Now if your talking someone who is going to rent a helicopter and fly the same 2 hour cross country 500 times, yeah they're going to be somewhat limited... Pattern work is neccesary, but I definitely see the argument that some people get WAY too comfortable flying patterns and let all of their other skills deteriorate. When someone is first starting off or just trying to brush up on approaches, sticking in the pattern is great because it allows you to get in far more approaches in the same amount of time. However, if you stick to one airfield, you will get used to the references and know exactly where to do what by the landmarks. That won't help you when you need to come into an unfamiliar airfield. Get your practice in... get relatively comfortable... and then go work it out at some other airfields. If you're not pushing your/your students' boundries, you/they are not going to get any better. One thing my CFI told me when he started me working on my solo hours for my commercial that I liked.... "Throw a few darts at a map and get the hell out of the basin....". The coolest thing about flying is being able to see new and exciting things that you can't see from the ground. It's great no matter what, but staying in the same 50 mile radius for 200 hours is boring and will limit your capabilities. Oops... was that rantish? J- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parafiddle Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 I got stimilar advice ("get out of the local area") from my instructor when I started on my FW Commercial. I spent a lot of time doing X-C flights going to different airports. I managed to land at nearly every paved public airport on the eastern half of Colorado. Learned a lot about cross-wind landings, navigation, weather, etc. Plus, it was a fun way to see a lot of new territory. Sure beats drilling holes in the sky in the local area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jehh Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 I've flown light airplanes and helicopters from one side of this beautiful country to the other. I can tell you that it is a great learning experience for a newer pilot, so long as it isn't how they build all their time. It doesn't have to be a new private pilot either. As a freshly minted CFI in airplanes, myself and two other CFIs took a 172 from Dallas to Las Vegas, it was a wonderful experience to see other parts of the country, mountains, IFR procedures out in the "real world", and so on. Many experiences that could never have been obtained in the pattern. That being said, the other guys are correct, as a private pilot, you cannot ferry a helicopter unless you're paying for it. Even free, the FAA sees the flight time as compensation. So if you do it, just don't tell everyone about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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