mcollins504 Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 Advice.... I have been living in the mountains in Colorado now for approaching 4 winters. I will be coming into a decent amount of money in the next 7-8 months. I am interested in investing the money in a business that interests me and I enjoy being around. I have several hundred hours on fixed wing and owned a Piper Cherokee in the 90's and flew in and around the Appalachians. But, I do not want to be the pilot for the operation. I am interested in operating a year round touring business with an 80's EC 350 BA or B2. I also can expect some contract LE and SAR work to come my way in addition to some localized charter shuttle work. I do not want to be the pilot. I believe hire the best for the flying and stick with what I do best on the ground. I want to run ground ops. I will be able to buy the aircraft and set up the business with no debt. So, I would have very few fixed expenses other than a pilot salary, medical insurance, and insurance for the operation. Variable expenses would consist of advertising, aircraft upkeep, annuals, inspections, licensing, continuing pilot eductation (high altitude etc), hangering, fuel, etc. I personally have no debt and live on about $600 a month including full medical insurance. I know how to operate lean by choice. I realize I could stick my money into some real estate deal and collect 5%-8%. But, that is not my interest. I want a heli op than can fly at least 700 hours annually. One aircraft one pilot. Is this realistic? Expansion would not be out of the question, but would have to be from retained earnings as I owe no one and will continue to live in this format. I want a pilot that can train me to fly (as I might as well be able to fly my own aircraft - not commercially though) so someone with a CFI CFII etc and someone that is willing to relocate to about an hour outside of Denver in the middle of ski country. Person would have to adapt to life at 8,000ft + small town . Comfortable flying at 10,000 - 16,000 ft . Is that person going to be out there? I am curious about salary range. I would prefer to pay a base with a % of operations profit as a bonus. What else do I need to consider along with what I have mentioned so far. I am originally from East Tennessee and have knowledge of the multiple flight operations taking place in close proximity to the Great Smoky Mtn National Park (can't fly over anymore). And, that area has been able to sustain several operators. Any advice and help from the expertise of this forum would be much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clay Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 I live/work/instruct out of Denver. If you are serious, I'd be happy to visit with you about it. but keep in mind, there are plenty of guys with helicopters here in Colorado, that have been around ALONG time and have amazing reputations as mountain pilots. its going to be hard to get in the niche they have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcollins504 Posted September 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 Not trying to edge in on any existing business. Instead, create some new business. Also, looking for a pilot that maybe doesn't have the funds to start up on their own. Next generation of Mtn pilots got to get going somehow right? Now remember I'm not trying to be the pilot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOATFIXERGUY Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 There's always room for competition... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COLO CHOPPER Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 I agree to an extent with boatfixer, there is always a possibility of providing better service or having the right contacts. Being a native of Colorado, I thought about this same scenario years ago, only I am void of the investment money and the drive to pull it off. I believe it is possible, but having a great mechanic is very important. Operating at those altitudes, I think a B2 would be the minimum and if you're talking about an 80's Astar, finding a B3 would be perfect. I don't think it would be too hard to find a quality pilot that would be willing to receive a base salary and a stake in the company, yet be personable enough to give you instruction, and live in the mountains of Colorado. I'm still quite new to the industry, relatively speaking, but I feel if this is what you want to do and have the means to do it, go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arotrhd Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 Me thinks you are going to need a B3 for the altitudes you've described; I'm presuming you'll want to have a fair load with some fuel to get there and back. And 1 ship? I hope you would not experience any unscheduled maint. & parts are readily available. Along with a good stick, you'll want an equally skilled wrench, and that will be the person that really makes/breaks operation for this size. Nothing like a helicopter that is not available in the middle of busy season...that situation and lost earning potential overtorques most pilots I know. JMHO. Good luck - nice to see this direction in this economy. -WATCH FOR THE WIRES- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikemv Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 Advice.... I am interested in operating a year round touring business with an 80's EC 350 BA or B2. I also can expect some contract LE and SAR work to come my way in addition to some localized charter shuttle work. I do not want to be the pilot. I believe hire the best for the flying and stick with what I do best on the ground. I want to run ground ops. I will be able to buy the aircraft and set up the business with no debt. So, I would have very few fixed expenses other than a pilot salary, medical insurance, and insurance for the operation. Variable expenses would consist of advertising, aircraft upkeep, annuals, inspections, licensing, continuing pilot eductation (high altitude etc), hangering, fuel, etc. I want a pilot that can train me to fly (as I might as well be able to fly my own aircraft - not commercially though) so someone with a CFI CFII etc and someone that is willing to relocate to about an hour outside of Denver in the middle of ski country. Person would have to adapt to life at 8,000ft + small town . Comfortable flying at 10,000 - 16,000 ft . Is that person going to be out there? I am curious about salary range. I would prefer to pay a base with a % of operations profit as a bonus. What else do I need to consider along with what I have mentioned so far. Dear Mcollins504, some things to consider and a mentality about your approach to what you want to do. Finding the correct aircraft initially is very important. I do not mean make and model but an aircraft with the right component times remaining and calendar year so that CALENDAR inspections and retirements do not cost you prohibitively. Having someone familiar with the make and model, factory trained and experienced with IA to do a good pre-buy and knowing your service center Director of Maintenance is important. Ask what special tools are required to complete a 100 hr/annual? Taking the aircraft to a Factory Service Center is usual more efficient and cost effective, plus it satisfies your Insurance provider. Consider how you will handle major unscheduled maintenance for component problems? Can you pay for a Engine/X-msn or T/r gear box chip light inspection/repair? Speaking of Insurance, it is more cost effective for you to train in a smaller helo than insure/expose your primary business aircraft to this. Your pilot does not need to be CFI/II but Factory Trained/experienced in make and model. He/she needs to meet FAR part 135/136 requirements. For mountain training, check into the course at Canadian Helicopters in Penticton, B.C. and SRT Helo in Calif. to include SAR training. Also, make sure you check the costs of Insurance for LE and SAR work. And check with expected LE customers about desired/required equipment to meet contract reqs! Watch the "equipped for all missions empty weight" when working in a High altitude environment. Suggestions about a AS350B3 were good ones. Also, consider a Bell 407. Again knowing maintenance requirements and Service Center locations. After you are rw-helo rated, a manufacturers' Pilot Transition course will help with Insurance Premiums for you to fly the machine and give you the best understanding of operating it. What do you think you can pay a pilot with the correct qualifications and experience?There are flight time/duty time restrictions and it usually requires a part time 2nd pilot for 135/136 ops. Read thru FAR Part 119 & 135 and talk to someone experienced in these to make sure it will work for you with required personnel. Personally, I think this is a lot for you to take on and be successful but not impossible. On the bright side, you have time to research and prepare. Ask further questions and I will try to help. MikeMV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOATFIXERGUY Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 I third the helicopter choice...a AS350B3 or 407 is really going to be needed up there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmk Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 The AS350 is nice, but remember this is a helicopter which costs just sitting at the ground. some components must be replaced afther a certain ammount of time, doesnt matter if the heli has flown an hour. From another owner and ferry flight operator, bad times can arrive, and then its nice to have a heli which doesnt cost more than the days to an annual, if not used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmk Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 I would do a 500 or a 407. Both with higher hover celings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick1128 Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 First of all I would stay away from the BA's. as I have heard operators that have them are having problems getting parts. Considering the density altitudes you would be operating at I would look at a B3 or a MD530. Part 136 LOA is not a major issue, but getting a 135 certificate will take awhile. Most FSDO have a waiting list of 2 years or more. With the new operational control regs, bootstrapping off someone elses certificate is more difficult to accomplish. Plus you will most likely need a 133 certificate also. As for a single pilot flying 700 hours a year, I wouldn't plan on it. Since most helicopter charters are short flights, pilots will not build up a lot of time in a year. Plus the 8 hour a day limit, 400 to 500 hours a year would be the max I would plan on. While a part time pilot is a option, it has been my experience that part time pilots are usually not available when you really need them. With only one machine you don't need your own mechanic to start out with, but you will need a GOOD, KNOWLEDGEABLE mechanic that is local to do your work. Develop a good business plan and I suggest that you do not limit yourself to just Colorado. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikemv Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 Some more great input from Rick1128. Mcollins504, are you getting all of this? Best of luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted September 10, 2009 Report Share Posted September 10, 2009 An opinion, The best scenario would be; some sort of income generator in place prior to purchasing the aircraft i.e. a contract for example. If not, your business plan is really based on speculation. You can rest assured, there a many folks who’ve lost a ton of money buying a helicopter before having the income to support it and, subsequently lost the business. Simply put, the work gets the helicopter, not the helicopter gets the work. Also, when you say “I will be able to buy the aircraft and set up the business with no debt”, does this mean you’re comfortable loosing this cash? It’s good if you can but if you can’t, reread the above paragraph. Another thing, it’s extremely difficult to “operate lean” in the helicopter business. Not to say you can’t, but when I hear phrases like operate lean, I sometimes interpret it as, cut-corners, low-ball, etc. I suggest whatever you believe this will cost, double it and you’ll be in the ballpark. Furthermore, for a pilot learning to fly the saying goes, you’ll pay thousands to make hundreds. In your case it’s more like, you’ll pay millions to make thousands. Lastly, check with the local municipalities regarding your plan because no matter where you operate, someone somewhere will complain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotorblade Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 First,I think you should seriously think about hiring a business financial advisor first before spending any of your green money.Going all cash into a business without exhausting all or any of the financing options first is simply foolish.Building no credit, no interest tax writeoffs etc., plus if you find yourself in a bad spot , bank will not lend you a penny against not money making bussines unless they have a steak in it. Second.Buy a sightseeing flight or two with different pilots and operators in the area to get a feel for what the future is going to be like.Go to local airports and talk to heli mechanics and pilots.Get to know them and let them know you and your plan.I am sure that after 4years living upthere ,you will agree that it is sometimes more than money.Just my opinion. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABarnes Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 What happens when your pilot gets sick and is out for a week with the flu? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jafco Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Collins if youare serious contact me. We are already here and actually in the process of doing same thing 303 663 8472ahhuey@msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Njordic Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Or drop me an email at njordic @ hot mail.com or give me a call at 970 366-6600. I'm already in the mountains... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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