Bases for the Apache

[UH60L-IP]

Achfly,

 

I'm curious about this special "aptitude" that Apache pilots must have. Can you please tell me more?

 

You see, every student that leaves the TH-67 has the same chance of selecting the 64 as the next guy. Sometimes they go first and sometimes the 64 is the last to go, in which case it is assigned to the dumbest rock in the class. Happens quite often. There is no special assessment for the 64, nor should there be, so what am I missing? I've been an instructor at Rucker for awhile and I am not aware of any greater wash out rate in the 64 than any other airframe. To have 4 people eliminated from a class is not exactly newsworthy.

 

What special aptitude does that dumbest rock in the class who may be assigned the 64 totally by chance and against his will have that I as an UH60 instructor pilot do not have? Or my students for that matter? I am very curious about this "aptitude" that 64 pilots must inherently possess. I feel like I am not a part of the club and I am a bit saddened by my apparent lack of aptitude as well as that of my non-Apache brethren.

[brackac]

There is no "special skill set" or magical powers needed to fly the Apache. It's like any other airframe; some pilots master it, most learn to be proficient, and some will never be able to do it. There are task and skills that are unique to the Apache, but it's not a 1 in a million type skill set. Yes, there are pilots who could not fly system and failed out of Apaches and became good lift pilots, but that's the exception, not the norm. It's easy to be a pilot, but hard to be a military aviator. Big difference between the two. Some people will never have the ability to fly in the military, regardless of the airframe.

[brackac]

San Dimas High School football rules!

[Joe_P148]

Bag vs 0 illum Dust landing under gogles I wonder which one is harder?

 

A legitimate question.

[brackac]

Bag vs 0 illum Dust landing under gogles I wonder which one is harder?

 

A legitimate question.

 

 

Dust landing in the bag during a solar eclipse.

[SBuzzkill]

Bag vs 0 illum Dust landing under gogles I wonder which one is harder?

 

A legitimate question.

 

Depends... Do you have scouts to put up illum rockets for you?

 

[achfly]

UH60IP, read my comments again. You're using the word special as if it means better. I didn't say that. It's just different. AND nobody said you and other Hawk drivers don't have that aptitude. It seems like you're looking to be offended. It's possible that someone who didn't do well in Hawks might excel in apaches and vice versa. AND I'm sure that most pilots would be fine with both. That's why the army allows us to select as you said.

[Joe_P148]

I guess that's why the Task Force doesn't fly apaches, they don't have that special ability.

[brackac]

I guess that's why the Task Force doesn't fly apaches, they don't have that special ability.

 

Oh, now you have opened a completely different can of worms.

 

Just in this last deployment I flew over 100 missions in support of Task Force XXX. We were the bottom of the stack and provided coverage from RP inbound, during actions on objective, and through exfil complete. 160th may not fly Apache's, but the various TF in theatre loves them. The 160th barely does anything with TF any more. I've done more work with the AF and guard Chinooks than with 160th on missions that should be their bread and butter.

[apacheguy]

Just my 2 cents but I've seen plenty of pilots fail the 64 AQC and get rolled into UH-60 AQC. Not so much the other way around. The Bag gives no quarter.

 

Best way to do it is to do the Cobra/Apache/Longbow route first, then talk branch into letting you go fly Hueys and Lakotas prior to retirement. Or attack then fixed wing.

[brackac]

Just my 2 cents but I've seen plenty of pilots fail the 64 AQC and get rolled into UH-60 AQC. Not so much the other way around. The Bag gives no quarter.

 

Best way to do it is to do the Cobra/Apache/Longbow route first, then talk branch into letting you go fly Hueys and Lakotas prior to retirement. Or attack then fixed wing.

I just left Attack for Fixed Wing. Biggest mistake of my career.

[Velocity173]

I just left Attack for Fixed Wing. Biggest mistake of my career.

Knew a guy in 60s who went FW. Only it did it for like 3 yrs and went back to 60s. He just didn't care for the mission or the particular unit he was in.

[Hotdogs]

I'll throw in my thoughts on this subject.

 

While I can't speak for the Apache as a platform itself, besides it's capabilities, I will say there is a big difference when an "A" is in front of designation of the aircraft vice a "U." From my point of view it has less to do with the stick handling capabilities (You can train any monkey) vice the community culture and mission. Attack units have a different mentality about what they do than assault or lift dudes. I have seen people struggle with it to the point where they do not like being in it. It's a personality thing more than anything. I will say that the knowledge requriement for aircraft employing ordnance is a lot higher than most and that has more to do with service specific TTPs, mission sets, and the various pubs that have to be used to employ your aircraft legally.

 

The aircraft itself tends to be a little more complex due to the inherent fire control systems onboard. It just takes more training and studying than the average pilot. It doesn't require us to be better pilots it just requires more work. Assault and lift dudes carry very important cargo (Marines, soldiers) and attack pilots carry ordnance in order to protect that cargo, that's a difference that makes you change the employment of your aircraft. Which some erroneously confuse with us being better pilots. Every platform, community, and unit will have shitty pilots.

[apacheguy]

I just left Attack for Fixed Wing. Biggest mistake of my career.

Now you can set up for an airline job though.

[Velocity173]

Now you can set up for an airline job though.

Problem is the air lines are top heavy right now. Plenty of pilots furloughed from the majors with all these captains in the regionals trying to move up. A lot of stories circulating right now about a pilot shortage. Yes, they need plenty of FOs in the regionals making 22 grand a year. Not so much for the majors.

 

Combine that with the new FAA ruling to have an ATP for and Part 121 crew and you'll have a shortage at the bottom.

[brackac]

Now you can set up for an airline job though.

 

Not for me. I would rather flip burgers at McDonald's than fly commercial.

[Flim]

Correct on the airlines... Shortage on the bottom. The majors have no problem filling the seats.

[Hotdogs]

That will highly depend on how majors will interpret flight time during the coming shortage. Some carriers will honor RW flight time if you meet the FW multiengine minimums. Then it is up to whether or not the carrier wants a +2000 turbine RW pilot with some FW multiengine time or a 1,500 hour Cessna/1,000 hour CRJ dude, and of course it's always about who you know (Big part).

[skyreaper]

Problem is the air lines are top heavy right now. Plenty of pilots furloughed from the majors with all these captains in the regionals trying to move up. A lot of stories circulating right now about a pilot shortage. Yes, they need plenty of FOs in the regionals making 22 grand a year. Not so much for the majors.

 

Combine that with the new FAA ruling to have an ATP for and Part 121 crew and you'll have a shortage at the bottom.

Airlines are shutting down routes bc of pilot shortage. Yeah FAR 61.159, get 1500, do ur ATP written. No studying required, can do a 1 day course for it, made a 78 first try w 3 hrs prep. Airlines are hard bc of pay at first but that gets better after first 2 yrs in. Plan for it. Could also do cargo/corparate/private contractor/gubment agency/nat guard. I was offered FO positions back in 08 when the mins were sub 400 TT and was 2 weeks from my multi commercial (hard to believe). If u have ATP mins now due to regs, u will have no problem. You may have to bite the bullet and get a CFI to build some time, but thats all good. Skys the limit bros. Go get it.

[skyreaper]

 

Not for me. I would rather flip burgers at McDonald's than fly commercial.

 

No way jose. Being an airline pilot is still badass. Maybe not 1978 im in the bar before my flight w a killer mustache badass, but still respectable. Happy meal careers not so much. Gang bang it guys, im tellin you, boost your time. Go places, spread those wings. FLY like were meant to.

[Velocity173]

 

Not for me. I would rather flip burgers at McDonald's than fly commercial.

 

Same here. I honestly have never once thought about flying for the air lines. Take a big cylinder, put wings on it, computers to allow it to fly itself and go out and fly a boring ass A to B route. Even if they called me today and said I could start as a FO in the majors, I'd stay flying helos. Single pilot helos at that.

 

Now look at Army aviation. Take a flight of two out to an LZ at night under goggles, pick up 2 infantry squads, fly at terrain flight jinking back and forth at terrain flight altitudes and insert into another LZ +- 30 secs. After that, split up for individual IFR clearances and pick up a GCA at base.

 

Flexibility; It's never the same thing flying tactically in the military.

[Velocity173]

Oh yeah another stat that I read today from the Air Line Pilots Association. They have approximately 1,154 of their members furloughed right now. Also said that back in 2012 when Comair went under, they furloughed over 850 pilots. Most of those pilots are still looking for work.

 

Ever hear of helicopter pilots getting furloughed? Nope.

[Flim]

I flew for Jetblue... Working on my packet now.

 

If you want to be an airline pilot, then the Army might not be the best path.

[brackac]

No way jose. Being an airline pilot is still badass. Maybe not 1978 im in the bar before my flight w a killer mustache badass, but still respectable. Happy meal careers not so much. Gang bang it guys, im tellin you, boost your time. Go places, spread those wings. FLY like were meant to.

 

 

No thanks. Hitting autopilot 500' after takeoff and then letting the computer fly for 4 - 8 hours does not sound like a good time. Being a commercial pilot just sounds painful. It's a cubicle job at 30K, but with even more mundane task than the average office job.

[brackac]

 

Same here. I honestly have never once thought about flying for the air lines. Take a big cylinder, put wings on it, computers to allow it to fly itself and go out and fly a boring ass A to B route.

 

 

Exactly.

 

I don't keep a logbook of my hours because I don't plan on flying anything when I retire.