csw1000 Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 I am just getting ready to start training and have narrowed my school choices down to two. For about the same money I can get @ 175hrs r44, IFR, CPL, and CFII through one school. My other option offers UVU Global Aviation degree option, CPL, CFI, and 300hrs plus guaranteed photo work / CFI work (Helicopter Academy / Boatpix.com) all hrs r22. As a new pilot which is more valuable, the extra ratings and r44 time or the hours that qualify me for insurance requirements. I plan to use the UVU Global Aviation degree to help financing and defer payments and hope to be able to work GOM in a few years before going for EMS. I am about to spend the money and am scared s##tless, especially after I dodged the SSH bullet. All input is appreciated and may save my a##. Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clay Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 remember, nothing is a guarantee. The hours are the important thing you want by the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDHelicopterPilot Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 What ever you decided just make sure you get your instrument rating. That is the best advice you will get. It is almost a requirement these days to have one. If you want to work in the GOM and EMS you will need it for sure. JD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csw1000 Posted September 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 that's kinda what I thought, as far as getting the hours. When I spend the money, I am afraid of not being able to get a job. I know I need hours to qualify for insurance as CFI so I guess that is the best bet to start. I think that if I get to 1000 in the next couple years and get a full time job with a big operator then they will help further my training and get the IFR I know I need. Right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1HeliCFI Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 I would shy away from the all 44 time route. The reason I say that is because your best bet for finding a CFI job is to have an R22 endorsement. Simple fact is that most instruction is done in the R22. I knew a few instructors that went through all R44 schools and then had problems getting flying jobs as CFIs because they had no 22 time. I would go to a R22 school and get your CFII, that will make you the most employable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam32 Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Don't forget that a lot of schools use an insurance company that requires 300hrs to instruct... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arotrhd Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Get the degree...that is the only item that you will earn and cannot be taken from you. Cheap 'life' insurance if anything happens to your medical or ??? X4 on the instrument rating. That is also inexpensive life & survival insurance. -WATCH FOR THE WIRES- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azhigher Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 I wouldn't assume that once you get on with an operator they will help fund you're instrument rating. It's an employers market, if they want someone with an instrument rating they are just going to hire someone who already has one. Stick with the 22 time, get ALL your ratings. Ratings, hours, and anything extra that is going to make you stand out on a resume is what's going to end up getting you employed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wally Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Experience (hours) are the big hurdle for aspiring professional pilots, but careers are built on skills, and unfortunately, that usually means training expense.I'm not certain that the difference between a 175 hour CFII and a 300 hour CFI is a gain- 300 hours isn't enough to get you a regular, paying seat in most commercial operations. The lack of the instrument and CFII means that you not only lose instructional opportunities, which might seem a lesser issue in a poor market than previously, but youve also given up the IFR side and have to get that ticket to qualify for commercial work, including EMS.You'll also need a fair bit of night to get an EMS seat. I wouldn't do night work without IFR training, even in a VFR bird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glennahall Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 There's got to be a way for you to squeeze in your instrument rating while flying all those 300 hours. If the school doesn't have IFR R22 trainers, go do that bit somewhere else. You gotta have hours or you can't get hired. But, I am a HUGE believer in IFR training and ratings. Everyone you go to work for is going to want you to already have it except maybe tuna boat birds. Also, when your doing instructing, you should want to be able to train any student on anything they want to learn. IFR rating and CFII is worth the effort to find a way. Very best,G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csw1000 Posted September 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 I think my plan now includes a little, from every single reply I'v received here. I believe I'll go ahead with the UVU Global Aviation Degree. It turns out they have no actual affiliation with any flight school, other than their own fixed wing operation. This means that I can choose any flight school or schools I want (the degree actually requires 0 flight time). Since there are no flight req's, I am free to decide what training I want to spend my school loan money on. So there, I have a degree in Aviation Admin., lower cost, deferrable payments, no payback until after I graduate. If I can't make money flying right away, then I at least have the degree and can get a regular job to support my loans. Also, I have four years that way, to build experience and hrs., so hopefully I will be able to get a good PIC job. I will do most of my training in the R22, especially building those first hrs., I don't know if they have an IFR R22 or not. If not I can go to another school for that. Maybe one with a 300? Thanks everyone, not only for your advice, but also for the enthusiasm, and sincerity. It really shows how much you guys care about flying, the industry, and helping out the new guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikon858 Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) I have no personal experience with them, but I will say do ALOT of research before you take the boatpix route, try and talk with people that have done it....I've heard too many bad things....As for which route you should go, I got lucky and got hired on at 200hrs, which by the way is the minimum you need to instruct 22/44...but pathfinder insurance is 300hrs minimum and they're the most widely used insurance company....so hours are important, but at the same time all the 44 time I had got me a PIC job in a jetranger, so it's a double edged sword.....And it could have just been a rumor but I heard Heli Academy went under.? Edited September 23, 2009 by nikon858 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADRidge Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Get your instrument ticket, whatever you do. For the reasons mentioned above, and it will also help your situational awareness and your fine touch. Plus it could save your life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inferno Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 This is probably going to reiterate what everyone else is saying, but it needs to be said. If you have a set budget, use it to get as many hours as you can, while making you as marketable as possible. If you are looking at r22/44 time, go for the 175 in a 22 and 25 in a 44 route. That way if you have money left over and you are having trouble finding a job since youre short of 300 hours, you can just do 22 time to build hours. As far as ratings go, if you do it right, you can have all the ratings except your ATP by 165 hours. Whatever you do, get your Instrument rating. It helped make me a much better pilot and made talking with ATC much easier for me. It will also help you later in life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollthbns Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 I am certain some of what I type here is redundant, but here it goes! I would have to agree with most of the posts on this subject. I would go a step further, and suggest that you find a school that offers the R-22, the R44 and the Schweizer 300C. The reason? Well, most first tier jobs are instructional in nature. Arm yourself with the most diverse set of qualifications possible for the money you spend, and be qualified to teach in all of the above mentioned aircraft. I have to also add my personal endorsement for the instrument rating and the instrument instructor rating. Almost every commercial job out there these days seems to require the ticket, it absolutely will improve your VFR skills and to top it all off, is a great skill to have for the day you encounter conditions that necessitate instruments to get out of. Key word, get OUT of. To quote the examiner I took all of my rides with; "These helicopters are not made to be flown in IMC" (generally speaking) The instrument instructor rating gives you yet another valuable vehicle for building experience, and an opportunity for your future employer to market that ability! Good luck on your quest. Let me restate that; Work hard, learn everyday, and never ever allow yourself to think that you have "arrived". Fly safe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorCalHeliKid Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Short answer: Hours....after your CPL. 300 is the insurance mark, try finding a job with less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rat Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 While the instrument rating is a great thing there are still many jobs that do not require it. There are also alot of great pilots with a ton of hours that do not have an instrument rating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glennahall Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 (edited) While the instrument rating is a great thing there are still many jobs that do not require it. There are also alot of great pilots with a ton of hours that do not have an instrument rating. Rat is right. I personally know several EXTREMELY talented helicopter pilots that REFUSE to get an instrument ticket, fly at night, etc. They are VERY skilled helicopter pilots. Also, they recognize their limitations and avoid the things they are uncomfortable with like the plague. They know if they don't they're DEAD. Not in trouble... DEAD. Every one of these guys could easily get their instrument tickets with the minimum training. They'd become even more extremely talented helicopter pilots and would SAFELY expand their operational envelope. As a new pilot, one of the wisest things you could do is get an IFR skillset. The only downside to it is the time and money. You'll already be spending the time and the money difference will be in paying an instructor for the instruction time and the cost of the additional checkride. The math I've got going in my head says that the bang for buck factor is way high. Very best,G Edited September 24, 2009 by glennahall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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