Should I make the jump to full time aviation? (sorry a little long)

[permison]

I could use some advice, I am considering leaving IT and moving into aviation full time.

 

Let me first tell you a bit about my background. I currently have a dual rating for commercial helicopters and fixed wing. I do not have my CFI or instrument rating. I spent some time in Army Aviation 20 years ago. I left aviation for 10 or so years after I left the service and went back in 1998. Thirty eight years old, I am not married and have no kids (that I know of) unless you count my dog. I live to fly and own a small aviation services company (Photos, aerial survey, the usual part 91 stuff) that I operate part time on the weekends.

 

I made a name for myself in software development and IT. I pull in over 6 figures a year but live in DC so it goes out just as quick (plus the women I date usually have expensive taste). I usually hold senior management or executive level jobs. With the market being the way it is there are not a lot of jobs for people at my level. And it’s hard to get someone to hire you as a web developer when your last job was Chief Operations Officer. I’ve started and sold 2 software companies. It didn’t make me rich but I walked away with a bigger bank account and some press related things to hang on my “I love me” wall. Not trying to brag here just setting the mood.

 

In the past 5 years I have worked for 2 government contractors who were involved in…..let’s call it inappropriate business practices. I live just outside of Washington DC and this is pretty common for this area. Everyone is looking to get a leg over on Uncle Sam. I left both companies immediately on finding out about the inappropriate activity. In one case I was asked to be a witness for the Government (it wasn’t pretty). The other I am owed a large amount of salary I will probably never see (more than many people make in a year) and the owner is on his way to jail for various things (I had nothing to do with him going to jail). Though I should get sainthood for what I did for the employees at my personal expense.

 

I was offered a new position early this week with a 30 year old company which I have done work for in the past as a consultant. I know the owner, nice guy and he comes to me for special projects on occasion. I was doing my due diligence on the company (I wasn’t offered a employment position with the company in the past so I didn’t think at the time it was necessary to do the due diligence). The position would put me in a executive role of the company with considerable responsibility so I wanted all the facts before I accepted the position. Well it turns out the owner of the company served time for bad checks to employees and some tax related issues. I’ve known the guy for 3 years and never knew. He is well connected in the area and seems to be well respected by his peers (His peers are guys with 8 figure bank accounts). When I brought this up to him he got angry and of course canceled the offer. I look at it as I dodged a bullet.

 

I’m done….I don’t want to do anything more in IT. I’ve worked for too many jerks and been placed in ethically compromising positions far too often. I know the same people exist in aviation but at least I would be flying instead of building some new billing or ecommerce system that is a clone of 1000 other systems out there.

 

I think I am a pretty good guy. I am a Veteran of the first Gulf War. I don’t beat my dog, or the women I date, I pay my bills on time, have good credit and volunteer with my local community (Civil Air Patrol, Wilderness SAR with my dog, and rescue diving). I just don’t want to do IT anymore. I hate the commute in DC traffic, I hate the people I usually work for, my staff usually love me but corporate management usually overrules most decisions from the IT dept, plus the hours suck (I spent 10-14 hours a day in the office every day), and the end result of all the hard work is usually not something I want to look back on and say “I did some good for the world”. Usually it just puts more money in some jerks wallet and is a "me too" product which doesn’t add anything to the market.

 

Here is what I want to do. I can get a student loan for 20K at 5.6% for 10 years (a little over $200 a month) to cover the cost of my instrument, multi-engine both CFI (fixed and rotary) and a few other ratings I want (Commercial Single Engine Sea and tail dragger). I think that will make me considerably marketable in the community. I have some credit card debt but that’s it. I own my car and motorcycle outright, just sold my Corvette (I was going to buy a new one). I can live on the savings I have while finishing training and instructing.

 

Someone tell me why I shouldn’t do this? 20 years from now I do not want to be looking back at my life and saying I should have done this back then. 10 years from now I don’t want to be dead from a heart attack while sitting in traffic because I don’t get any exercise or I am stressed out because some dipshit in marketing pulled a date out of his butt and says we have to deliver before then regardless of the reality of Cost/Schedule/Staff/Priorities/or any of the important things that goes into running a successful project or business.

 

I can always go back to IT if aviation doesn’t work out. I know the job market is horrible but hopefully it will pick up in a year or two at the worst. If things don’t work out I can work on the weekends at a local flight school to cover the $200 for my student loan. I feel like time is slipping away from me and I am not happy with my accomplishments over the last 15 years (take note kids, the grass is always greener on the other side, and more money does NOT make you happy).

 

Can anyone see what I might have missed? Other than the 20K in debt and the potential of no flying job prospects, I still have another career to fall back on (two if you count fixed wing flying). I am not a kid fresh out of high school with his whole life ahead facing 70K in student loans. I have lots of aviation and business management experience already under my belt. What employer wouldn’t want me?

 

Have at me. Do your worst. I want your frank advice. Why shouldn't I make the jump?

[PhotoFlyer]

It sounds like you have given this a great deal of thought. My first thought (without reading) was to say, no, it is probably a bad time to try to get into aviation. However, you seem to be in a good position to try. You sound highly motivated to make the change, which is also good.

 

My advice would be to go for it if you have employment to fall back on. I will caution you, however, that if you are in the flying portion of the industry you won't be making nearly as much money as you were. I realize that you probably know and understand this, but I feel obligated to mention it.

 

It all comes down to this: You only live once, all that matters in the end is whether you are satisfied with that life.

[Gomer Pylot]

You're asking anonymous strangers on the internet for personal career advice?

 

Well, here goes. With your history, if you don't have enough money in the bank and in investments to retire, then shame on you. Having to take out a loan to finance the CFI at this point is pretty damning. That indicates that you're careless with money, and people who are careless with money are going to have major problems in aviation. You'll be lucky to make half what you've been making, ever. It's going to be a rough row to hoe.

 

I do realize that you might be doing the loan even though you have money in the bank. Even with relatively low interest rates, I don't think it's a good idea. Default on the loan, and your credit is ruined for a very long time. The economy is not going to get better soon, most likely several years down the road. WIth loans hard to get and money extremely tight, flight instruction is going to be a much smaller industry, especially for helicopter CFIs. I would bet serious money that a fair number of flight schools are going to go bankrupt in the next couple or three years. Over a million people have lost their jobs in the past couple of years, and it's not slowing down much. The real estate market is going to be hit hard again soon, with defaults from borrowers with good credit, who have lost their jobs and are now making out with credit card debt and whatever else they can come up with, but that can't last, and there is going to be a huge number of mortgage defaults from this, and it's going to hurt the entire economy, perhaps worse than the initial real estate bubble-burst did. There is simply not going to be much money for flight training, anywhere. If you have to do it, fine, and I wish you good luck with it, but I would not advise anyone to start into aviation now.

[apiaguy]

agree with gomer

your 38 and don't have 20k to blow on aviation?!?!....especially after that resume you just posted?

 

why all the ratings? I know I want them all too... but it's only a problem of time for me...not money.

 

If you want to move more into aviation... pick one side (fixed/rotor) for growing a career... do the other for fun and maybe down the road they'll meet up. It's gonna be slow and sucky but like you said your life already is.

[gmcd]

sent you a PM.

 

As a 10+ year IT consultant and software company owner, I say go for it.

 

Many people don't know the emotional price tag associated with high level IT. I would trade a 6 figured of IT income for 25k of aviation income any day of the week.

 

Money is over rated, aviation is not.

 

Anything worth obtaining has some level of sacrifice.

 

In IT, you sacrifice your life for the money you want. In aviation, you sacrifice your money for a life you want.

 

It's all about what you want to get in life, and what you're willing to sacrifice to get it.

Edited September 26, 2009 by gmcd

[apiaguy]

IT guys are hilarious.... that must be the biggest suck ass job out there!

 

take note kids on career day....

 

aviation ain't roses either.

[permison]

You're asking anonymous strangers on the internet for personal career advice?

Isn't that what this site is for?

 

Well, here goes. With your history, if you don't have enough money in the bank and in investments to retire, then shame on you. Having to take out a loan to finance the CFI at this point is pretty damning. That indicates that you're careless with money, and people who are careless with money are going to have major problems in aviation. You'll be lucky to make half what you've been making, ever. It's going to be a rough row to hoe.

 

I have plenty of money in the bank. I just don't want to use it. It's for my "retirement" among other things. I did a lot of investing in a past life and the best advice I ever got was "not to use my own money". If I borrow 20K against my 20K I can cover my loss for the life of the loan. I never default because I have the money in savings. The bank only cares that I meet my obligations. It's doesn't care how. So worst case I lose the whole 20K I invested I still have 20K in the bank to cover my loss over the life of the loan. If I don't get a loan and I use my 20K for the investment and loose it all I am out of money, period DOT. Borrowing gives me a safety net with my savings should I need it. Plus the interest on the loan is tax deductable. The rates right now are at levels I don't think we will ever see again.

 

I do realize that you might be doing the loan even though you have money in the bank. Even with relatively low interest rates, I don't think it's a good idea. Default on the loan, and your credit is ruined for a very long time. The economy is not going to get better soon, most likely several years down the road. WIth loans hard to get and money extremely tight, flight instruction is going to be a much smaller industry, especially for helicopter CFIs. I would bet serious money that a fair number of flight schools are going to go bankrupt in the next couple or three years. Over a million people have lost their jobs in the past couple of years, and it's not slowing down much. The real estate market is going to be hit hard again soon, with defaults from borrowers with good credit, who have lost their jobs and are now making out with credit card debt and whatever else they can come up with, but that can't last, and there is going to be a huge number of mortgage defaults from this, and it's going to hurt the entire economy, perhaps worse than the initial real estate bubble-burst did. There is simply not going to be much money for flight training, anywhere. If you have to do it, fine, and I wish you good luck with it, but I would not advise anyone to start into aviation now.

 

You have a great point here I had not thought of. You're right the economy is not going to get better soon, money for flight training is going to be hard to come by. The real estate market is going to be hit "HARD" in a couple of months along with the credit card industry. I can probably argue that one better than you can. 1st quarter 2010 could be the worst we have ever seen in US history. So I don't know the answer to this part yet. It might just come down to being lucky enough to work for one of the survivors.

 

Regardless there will still be a need for pilots. I think there is a closing window. The student loan credit is available now, I doubt it will be next year. So what does this mean? How will the industry fill the low end pilot slots? There will always be attrition. There will always be openings. Pilots move up or move out. Not everyone can work for what these 1500 hour or less positions pay. Many have families to support or 70K in student loans to cover. They can't work for peanuts forever and if there is no one to fill the spot they just left what will the industry do? I don't know but that is the logical question given the picture you paint. Not that I disagree with your picture. I am just trying to figure out what the industry will do in response to the lack of students or training money.

 

It's entirely possible that our entire economy will collapse, then it won’t matter what I do or where I do it. I am leaning in the direction of taking the risk. Again from a personal perspective I think the worst that happens is I can't get a job as a pilot. I have a small loan to pay back at $200 a month and can write off a good portion of it. Possibly most of it. Best thing that happens is I start flying professionally, outgrow my need for toys and enjoy the hell out of my job (and life) rather than slaving away at a computer all day.

 

In any case I appreciate and value your input. Don't take my debate of your points as negativity or stupidity on my part. I think what you said is very valid. I want to be talked out of this. Because it is a major life change for me. I am hopeful the debate will lead to an obvious conclusion but we aren't there yet.

[permison]

IT guys are hilarious.... that must be the biggest suck ass job out there!

 

take note kids on career day....

 

aviation ain't roses either.

 

It ain't far from janitor, just better pay. IT keeps the company going. When stuff breaks it's always IT who gets called first, and usually at 2am. And then you still have to be in the office at 8am to work on the new stuff they want. It really is a shitty job even at the executive level. I have a good friend who is the CIO for a major organization. He makes around 300K plus stock and bonus. He hates his job. But he has the McMansion, the trophy wife, and two kids. He has to keep the job to cover the cost of this "life". I've never seen a more unhappy individual in my life.

[Wally]

Unless you just HAVE TO DO IT!, don't. At least, not that way. I suspect there's a really good reason you are where you are. I'd also bet you can change what you don't like without chucking the whole pile.

 

People are people, period. If you're unhappy with those you've associated with, know that they're not exceptional- unfortunately. We use the some of the same part numbers for executives in aviation. I won't name names and don't really need to. You're looking at the grass over the fence...

 

I'm not saying flying helos is a bad career choice. I've been in and out- mostly IN the seat, since 1968. I love it. I've done other things, made as much/more money at them, but this makes me happier, so I do it. I've also seen management screw people, sometimes just because they can. Sometimes just because those with the power are stupid. People are people.

 

Was I you, I'd look at my situation and change what makes me unhappy. Working with slime? Avoid that, even if it puts less jingle in your jeans. If you can do it and keep your present career and professional accomplishments, fly part time. Perhaps there's time between contracts, assignments. Maybe just weekends in the cockpit. To me, the best of both worlds, until you know that flying flailing palmtrees is what you want, and that certainly isn't all clover, to mix a metaphor.

Edited September 26, 2009 by Wally

[StanFoster]

I was a trim carpenter who found himself one day having been at the same company 10 years and two days. I was always wanting to go into the curved stairway building business. I had a good job, but my gut was gnawing at me. I soon realized that one day I would wake up...and still be at this compay 15 years...then 20 years. I decided that I would rather "try and fail" than "failed to have tried" That was back in 1997.....and I sure am glad I followed my gut.

 

I have my own business....am now building a Helicycle and will be flying it next year.

 

So.,.my advice....go for it . You have two safety nets....a good savings...and you can go back to your other career. I dont think its even a choice.

 

 

www.stansstairways.com

Edited September 26, 2009 by StanFoster

[fry]

An interesting age and a common problem. Late-thirtes is when everyone starts re-evaluating. Been out of school and in the job market long enough that the novelty has worn off, the pay increases start to come slower and you can hear the footsteps of the competition coming up behind you. Been there and watching three sons go through it.

 

In reading your post an aphorism came to mind, "If you have to ask you can't afford it". There's two points to this. The folks I have known with the risk tolerance to "chuck it all and start over" have always been the sorts who keep their own counsel. They have an almost irrational belief in their own ability to make it work and they don't ask for advice because they don't want to hear anything negative. Most of them also fail...but some don't.

 

The other point is that you should not underestimate the lifestyle change you are contemplating. Going from the income level and position you now enjoy to that of a beginner...the new guy...in a different industry would be a serious culture shock.

 

An option you might consider is to take time off and recharge. The people I have known who have quit to live their dream...to sail around the world, go to school, start a business...all came back after a year or so. But they came back with a new-found energy and were generally successful afterward. Spend the twenty grand in the bank on flying...it's not really that much money...then go back to work an make lots more.

 

"Do what you do well for money; do what you love for fun" (I've got a million of these)

 

Anyway...a minor point...the interest on a student loan is probably not deductible because it likely wouldn't be a "qualified student loan":

 

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc456.html

 

Good luck.

[arotrhd]

Per-

 

Just like Wx, you ultimately gotta make the call...great to get advice from others, but understand some will throw you the net and others the anchor. Obviously you've been here at VR for some time so there is interest. Determine if it's a passion and figure out if this will be better than the 'worst day of fishing'. Make an informed decision, have confidence and follow through.

 

And being single with pup, you're in a much different position making this type of decision...unlike a lot of people here - married & kid(s).

 

-WATCH FOR THE WIRES-

[r22butters]

"How will the industry fill the low end pilot slots?" Don't worry dude, there are enough unemployed low end pilots to fill the industry for many, many, many, years to come!

[permison]

An interesting age and a common problem. Late-thirtes is when everyone starts re-evaluating. Been out of school and in the job market long enough that the novelty has worn off, the pay increases start to come slower and you can hear the footsteps of the competition coming up behind you. Been there and watching three sons go through it.

 

In reading your post an aphorism came to mind, "If you have to ask you can't afford it". There's two points to this. The folks I have known with the risk tolerance to "chuck it all and start over" have always been the sorts who keep their own counsel. They have an almost irrational belief in their own ability to make it work and they don't ask for advice because they don't want to hear anything negative. Most of them also fail...but some don't.

 

The other point is that you should not underestimate the lifestyle change you are contemplating. Going from the income level and position you now enjoy to that of a beginner...the new guy...in a different industry would be a serious culture shock.

 

An option you might consider is to take time off and recharge. The people I have known who have quit to live their dream...to sail around the world, go to school, start a business...all came back after a year or so. But they came back with a new-found energy and were generally successful afterward. Spend the twenty grand in the bank on flying...it's not really that much money...then go back to work an make lots more.

 

"Do what you do well for money; do what you love for fun" (I've got a million of these)

 

Anyway...a minor point...the interest on a student loan is probably not deductible because it likely wouldn't be a "qualified student loan":

 

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc456.html

 

Good luck.

 

Thanks Fry, I was hoping you would chime in. Good advice. I can't argue with most of your points. Except the one about "qualified student loan". I was pushed further in the direction to do this by the post about "is there still money out there".

 

http://helicopterforum.verticalreference.c...amp;#entry85971

 

As I read the part about UVU offering the Aviation Science degrees it got me to thinking I could probably write off some of the training and the interest if I worked through the school. Nothing requires that I complete the schooling I just need to be enrolled to qualify for the loan as a student loan at the low interest rate. Plus I can transfer most of the required credits from previous higher education along with other training (already have 2 commercial tickets and other training which is available for college credit) which could get me close to a masters (or at least a second Bachelors) by the time all is said and done. I ran this by my CPA and he agrees I can right off a lot of the training.

 

The other issue in my favor is I am still working and can continue to do so while training. This isn't an all or nothing decision. I only have to leave my current work when I accept a job doing flight instruction full time. As a fixed wing pilot I can instruct on the weekends, though I doubt any Rotary schools would allow for that. As I get further along in my career I can still continue to consult developing applications and web pages in my down time.

 

A third option is I can lease an R44 for 4 or 6 months and fly the hell out of it. I got a quote for something like $6000 a month for 50 hours a year ago (it worked out to something like $200 an hour). I bet that cost has gone down considerably. I can then turn around and offer time building or flight instruction on my own while building hours myself.

 

I’ve always requested council on big decisions. I have a group of mentors (each accomplished in their fields) I turn to when I struggle with issues in business. As all smart business people should do. In the end as Arotrhd said “ultimately I have to make the call”. Having the input of others helps me make an informed decision.

 

Again, thank you everyone for your continued input. I am still looking for that obvious negative reason to not do this but I haven't had an issue come up that I can't counter in my head. Keep punching guys.

[permison]

"How will the industry fill the low end pilot slots?" Don't worry dude, there are enough unemployed low end pilots to fill the industry for many, many, many, years to come!

 

Yeah, but how many of them would be willing to come back (or could) once the market recovers? Recent time is important (I learned this when I tried to get back into it after not flying for 10 years). How many of them can leave the job they had to take on to cover the cost of the original loans.

 

I am perplexed by some of the negativity here by some posters (not just in this in this thread). I am not new to this industry. I have many associates who fly for a living. Most seem very happy with their life. Most of them are making close or over 6 figures. One is flying a G4 at something like 125K and gets per dium on top of that. He loves his job and his life. Course he has been divorced something like 6 times and is gone for months at a time. But he wouldn’t change a thing. I was just exchanging IMs with him. He is on the beach in Nassau for the next two weeks while his boss works a deal. This is pretty much what he does all the time. Last month it was Moscow for a week. He flies there and then plays tourist all while getting paid.

 

But this isn't about money. What is it in this industry (or maybe it's just VR and JH) that leads to so many unhappy people doing what is for most a dream job? Maybe this is what I am looking to hear. What is it that is so hard for some of you that you would so negative about this work?

[gmcd]

But this isn't about money. What is it in this industry (or maybe it's just VR and JH) that leads to so many unhappy people doing what is for most a dream job? Maybe this is what I am looking to hear. What is it that is so hard for some of you that you would so negative about this work?

 

Thats a great question. I'm almost in the same boat here and would really like to know myself.

[Gomer Pylot]

Everybody is different. Work for one is fun for another. I know people who absolutely love any work dealing with computers or IT. Some hate it. Aviation is the same. Being away from one's family for weeks or months at a time can be crushing. Others love it. In truth, any vocation becomes just a job at some point, and very, very few people are lucky enough to be completely happy in their jobs all the time.

 

Right now, most of us are lucky just to still have a job. Nobody ever told me that a job had to be fun, just that one was necessary to provide enough income to live. I still believe that. Have fun when you can, but do the necessary work every day, that's what commands respect in the real world.

[r22butters]

Sorry for the negativity, but its hard to be positive when nobody will hire me.

[edspilot]

Permison:

 

I wish you the best in whichever path you choose. I an not responding to give you any advice but, I will give you my experience(s).

 

I flew for a living fixed-wing for 10 years and then moved into management of a government law enforcement aviation operations for 10. I retired in 2006 at age 52.

 

At this point I thought I wanted to fly full time again in helicopters, teaching, line patrol or fire watch. I know I am never going to fly the EMS or GOM or "heavey helicopters and I accept this.

 

Having said this I then decided to do a contract job for the last three years that paid very well doing international training. This allowed me to fly on my time off and pay cash for everything. Problem was not as much time off as I liked with all of the travel.

 

In March 2009 I decided I like the security of working but not wanting to work as much as I had been. I wanted to fly more but was not sure if flying full time was the answer. I thought that if I found a job with more time home or worked less then maybe I could fly more without giving up the working security at a good paying job.

 

Therefore, this is what I did. I made the decision to find this "other job" that allowed me to be home more (no international travel) and very little out of state travel. I did not have to make as money as I was before and that was ok, because this new job would allow me more time to fly.

 

I started looking for a helicopter partnership with no luck so I said I'll buy my own and fly all I want, when I want for fun and maybe do some local travel for my new job. So I found my R22 Beta II.

 

Then I set out to find that job that will allow me more time home with ok pay and still allow me to have the security I desired.

 

September 11, I resigned my old job and September 14 I started my new one, closer to home and without all of the travel so now I have evenings and weekends to fly more and the job to pay for it.

 

For me, it is the best I can hope for. Working to provide for the life stuff and my hobby flying of my helicopter too. Yes, I too am a dual CFI but will not teach in my helicopter as the insurance is just too out-of-sight expensive for teaching. I refuse to pay these outrageous prices to do that.

 

Therefore, I'll just fly when and where I want in my time off, giving rides to friends, working with the "Young Eagles" (EAA) and assisting the local law enforcement with anything I can.

 

For me it is my dream.

 

I wish you, yours..

 

My best,

 

edspilot

[spubar44]

you should just go for it. If you don't, you will surely then look back and wish you had, but if you just do it, then you can look back and say, now i know. I don't all kinds of money laying around to just throw into training, but i made it happen because that is what i wanted. (military people don't make alot, thats me). I figured i have four years until i can retire with 20 years at age 38 and would be great to have all my hours for a good job then as a heli pilot, But what i do is Hope for the best and expect the worse and that way your not disappointed either way. So my fall back plan is since i will be receiving my retirement money, I will use my CFI to train students in someones heli and i will do it for the owner for free and the student can pay his money to the owner. That way i can still build my time and experience and do what i love all at the same time, Man i am living the dream, well not yet, but i will, i'm getting there.

But enough of that, Just do it and you won't regret it and if you decide to and love it as much as many on this board, you will never work another day in your life.

[Wittman Driver]

Permison,

 

If you are one already looks back and wonders why they didn't take the plunge in the first place, why would it be any different in the future? I wish I had your assets to get into this occupation-I would already be doing it on top of my current job. I know how you feel...like you are out of place in life. You go to work, do a good job to the best of your ability and are actually looked at as the person that will get the job done and get it done right, and drag home with the sense of no accomplishment. Yes, you are doing what your family/friends/some on the forum think is right-making a good living. Why would you want to trade it? Why aren't you happy? Because it knaws at you, that's why. Because it takes YEARS off your life if you are not happy. Being single (with no kids), savings, something to fall back on...seems like a no-brainer. Good luck to you!

 

WD

[Pohi]

I read your post a while ago when you first put it up, but for some reason I have not decided to throw my two cents in.

 

There is a lot of good advice that is being posted here, so I hate to think that besides wasting precious internet space, my thoughts will be merely a reflection of others before me.

 

Depending on how much you want to make a difference in the helicopter world, your choices can follow many different paths.

 

If you want to be a CFI and help teach others, that is a noble cause that you could accomplish without too much financial risk. It matters where you plan on teaching, some schools have more students than others, and if you want to do instructing part time, you could still keep your loathed day job. For that matter, you could even take care of business between students.

 

If you want to just drop the job and work for the joy of it, having the benefit of not worrying about how to pay rent, phone bills, or if to splurge on spaghetti oh's instead of top ramen, then you are in a good position.

 

Or, you could fight the heart attack, keep the day job and buy a used helicopter and use that to make the difference that you desire. You could get everything legal and give rides to places like make a wish, boyscouts, girlscouts, etc etc.

 

Money can't buy happiness, but it can get the toys that will help :-)

 

Whatever you choose, I wish you the best of luck.