An email from Dad

[wannabe87]

" I still think you are wanting to spend thousands of dollars for a helicopter rating that will not provide a living for many years. Not much helicopter stuff going on, and what is going on goes to people with probably 3000+ hours. At $600/hr, (cost for R44), that a lot of money. Especially when you could be making money in probably the next 200 hour in a much cheaper fixed wing. Build total time up, ad the get a rorary wing rating. At least you would be more compative. Don't fly for the airlines or regionals. I wouldn't right now. They are stagnet. Still aviation jobs teaching and charter. You do have an advantage with CFM.

 

 

 

Any flight school you go to will promiss you aqnything to get what they can out of you. I have 40 years in aviation and know what I am talking about. I also have access to several hundred years experience or more from contacts in the FAA and industry. They agree. I would not have had any rotary wing unless the Army had paid for it. I could not have supported my family with rotary wing until I had at least 500 hrs helicopter to put with many thousands of hour flying. Think about it."

 

 

 

Love,

 

Dad

 

 

THis is an email I just got from my dad, Im not going behind him and trying to prove anything to him, just trying to do my research. I want to make a career of flying helicopters. Currently I have about 70hrs fixed-wing(need solo cross country and checkride for my private, but got deployed before I could do them), I even pretty much have a charter job lined up with a growing company flying Jetstream 31s. I just think I would enjoy a career as a helicopter pilot so much more. I have no desire to be an airline pilot. I would be soooooo bored, and everything is not about money to me(even thought the starting pay at a regional is like $20,000 per year, so really not much money to be had lol.) I am trying everything I can to research every aspect of the industry. All I get is two different answers from every person I talk to as far as what the smart choice would be. I just need some guidance, and a little help. I would enjoy flying helicopters more, but is it really a stupid idea right now? How true is what my dad has said. I realize that there is truth in it, but even a good job in fixed wing like FED EX require like 4 internal recomendations, and your dad has to be the president of the US lol. So what does everyone here thing about this?

[The Guardian]

There seems to be an abundance of these types of threads, so here is a quote from my upcoming new book "Zen and the Art of Helicopter Flying".....

 

"First you must give up on being a helicopter pilot. Now go be a helicopter pilot."

 

But not knowing your age and financial circumstances it's hard to comment. It seems like the commercial helicopter world in large part is a lifestyle choice. For instance an Instructor I recently flew with was in his late 40's, had gone through a divorce and practically lost everything. He started in Helicopters about 3 years ago and has close to a 1000 hours now and seemed happy as can be "scraping by" as an instructor. I can imagine this line of work is incredibly hard if you have a family to support but it you're young and single then just get out there and do it. Because who really listens to "Dad" when you're young anyway?

 

Also, you can train in a R44 in Massachusetts for $369 / hour. There are two competing schools within 20 minutes of each other offering that rate.

[r22butters]

Find a good job doing something else. If you really want to fly helicopters, make it a hobby, then perhaps one day you will have enough hours to retire into it. There are a lot of things I love to do that I tried to make into a career, and I can tell you from experience, some things are better left to the hobby bin.

 

I wish I had listened to my dad, things would be so much better now.

[slick1537]

I would say it is true, and your dad has a ton of experience in aviation, so I wouldn't disregard that. Right now, I am 50 grand in the hole, CFI, 170 hours, and no job. I don't regret it a bit. The hardest part of getting into this career isn't getting your ratings, it is getting a job afterword. I still have hope and I know in time things will come together. I would take the advice of others though, if you are not really sure what career you want, go to school, get a good paying job and make the change later. If you are absolutely sure this is what you want to do, then go for it, just realize it is going to be a long hard road, flight school being the easy part.

[svtcobra66]

There seems to be an abundance of these types of threads, so here is a quote from my upcoming new book "Zen and the Art of Helicopter Flying".....

 

"First you must give up on being a helicopter pilot. Now go be a helicopter pilot."

 

I don't think that quote makes any sense

 

And if you want to fly helicopters, find a way to do it. Become a familiar face at any helicopter operator you can get to, and eventually you'll find a job. Sure it's not the best time in the industry, but in my experience you tend to make your own luck. Better to jump into the industry than try to wait for the perfect time and find that by the time you get your ratings jobs are hard to come by again. Don't throw your life away with debt either, but if you truly want to do something find a way to make it happen that 1) doesn't ruin your life and 2) leaves you without any regrets. I spent far too much time in a cubicle because I didn't want to admit that I didn't care about money, I just cared about flying. You can make a living in the helicopter world, you just need the determination and you need to be persistent.

Edited October 23, 2009 by svtcobra66

[Spike]

Dads are usually right….. I know, because I’m a Dad myself. However, a long time ago not only my Dad, but everyone else I knew echoed the same concern as your Dad is now. As it turned out, they were wrong. And, I’m here to tell you, there’s nothing special about me….

 

If you are true to your word that money doesn’t mean that much, then you have to go with what YOU believe will make you happy in life. If you do this, then everything else is cake.

 

Respectfully, even though your Dad apparently has extensive experience in aviation, I’m not sure why he quotes “$600/hr, (cost for R44)”. This statement is incorrect. This also is evidence he is receiving some bogus info which is not surprising. The stuck-winged side of aviation regularly spews bogus info about the helicopter industry. Ignorance is bliss……

 

Lastly, I suggest steering clear of the 44 for your initial training. Go with the R22 or the 300. And, do not finance the training…. REPEAT, do not finance the training. Get the money from Dad……….

Edited October 23, 2009 by Spike

[apiaguy]

In 1992 when I became interested in helicopter flying I was at the same place many of you here are now. The school wanted $26000 to go 0 to CFI. All I needed was a cosigner... parents wouldn't. I spent the following 5 years in aviation trying to make things work.... they worked if you can live on what was $12/hr back then. After that I realized I wanted more in life. I went to college and started a career path that would allow me to stay in aviation as a hobby/2nd job and have been happy ever since. It seems that even the career pilots are jealous of me now. Don't think the only way to make it in helicopters or aviation in general is to go and get your CFI. Dad knows best and it will be alot nicer if he's on your side.

[The Guardian]

I don't think that quote makes any sense

 

There is no book (we need a facetious font) and the quote was purely invented to highlight the hand wringing often present in these types of threads. If flying helicopters is really something you want to do then you will do it, hence giving up on the thought of it and actually doing it. But in the event the OP is going to commit to training then your advice is very good. Perhaps pick a school in an area that has a lot of helicopter operations or companies in close proximity, Portland comes to mind or Los Angeles. You'll certainly meet people at the airport and there is often no shortage of people willing to talk about themselves and their experiences. You'll soon enough build up relationships and more importantly a reputation. If you're at the point of working on your Commercial solo hours invite other pilots along for a ride. "Hey I'm cruising up to __________, care to join me?" If they get to see that you're a competent, smooth, safe pilot that plans well then all the better. Just some ideas....

[Goldy]

Son-

 

1. What the hell are you doing getting advice over the internet? Did I not tell you I have been flying for 40 years?

 

2. If you want to be a helicopter pilot so bad, let the military pay for it !

 

3. The whole, get a real job first and fly on the side makes a lot of sense to me. So does the never get in debt to get a rating idea. I know if you hang around, go to the shows, attend HAI, you can make hundreds of contacts, many of which will turn into something down the road.

 

Meet you at the recruiters office,

 

Love,

 

Dad.

[Gomer Pylot]

Dad knows what he's talking about. I"m probably about the same age, been flying for 40+ years, and I would never, ever, let my son even think about flying helicopters for a living. I'm doing it because that's the only marketable skill Uncle Sam gave me, and it didn't cost me any money, just time in places I would rather not have been. I had no choice about working for Uncle Sam, so that's not anything to argue about. But if I hadn't been put in the position I was by Uncle Sam, I would have never made a living the way I did. Flying helicopters beats working for a living, but it's far from the best way of making one. It's not nearly as much fun as it looks from the outside, and you'll quickly learn that if you insist on doing it. When you're young and ignorant (I know that's redundant) it looks like a lot of fun and nothing else, but that's only if you're young and ignorant, or at least very ignorant. It will cost you a huge chunk of money, which will take you decades to repay, if you ever can, and while you're doing that you will be doing all sorts of things to make enough money to live on, and you won't enjoy many of them. It looks all heroic and continuous fun and games from the outside, but that's just from the outside.

 

Listen to Dad, he's been doing this for a long time, and he knows what he's talking about.

[Pohi]

You are in an interesting position.

Correct me if I am wrong, but you did state that you were deployed, so if this is correct you should have the GI bill.

 

If this is the case, look into the chapter 33 (or post 9/11) GI Bill. If you attach your training to a college degree, you should be eligible for 100% of your helicopter training free from the military.

For that matter, you could even get dual rated and have both options available.

So who is going to pay for the training, and you being thousands in the whole is not an issue.

 

As far as what to do after you get your ratings, that is the tough question. Like another poster said, if you want the best chances of a CFI job after training, I would do research and go live wherever in the country has schools that are currently busy. You might have to suck it up and go train in Hawaii, Florida, or California.

 

After training, then hopefully teach helicopters, or go fly the airplanes.

 

If flying helicopters was easy then there would be no airplane pilots.

[wannabe87]

Thanks for the replies everyone! I guess I should have put more info in there this morning. I am currently 22 years old, I am overseas in Iraq serving with Army Aviation. I am in the Army National Guard. When I joined I was under the impression that I was going high school to flight school program. Turns out the Army says I am colorblind. I do have a current 1st class medical from the FAA though, that was the first thing I did after the Army told me that. I passed the FAA colorblind test, I have also retaken the Army colorblind test millions of times, still no luck. So whatever I do has to be through civilian side. It isnt that I would mind flying for the airlines, but it just seems so much like a "bus" driver to me. So I am still trying real hard to figure out what to do for school when I get back. My dad is both a helicopter and fixed wing pilot, and now works for the FAA, he acually used to fly for the same unit I am in now. I have had a lot of fun in both airplanes and helicopters, I just think the helicopter mission fits me better as a person. Like I said, I wouldnt be disapointed if I had to fly for the airlines, I just prefer helicopters. But if I will not be able to find a job at all then I need to do fixed wing. Thanks for the help so far everyone!!

[FLHooker]

wannabe,

 

I'm sorry to hear about your eyes. The GI Bill will pay up to 60% of what they consider to be a 'professional' rating... anything Instrument and above, you would have to pay for your private out of your own pocket. If you finish up your private in the fixed wing (seems like you are pretty close) that would decrease your RW private mins.

 

Now, I'm not a dad, but I did listen to my dad when I was youner... I did what I wanted to, that was his advice to me. Now I fly Chinooks for the Army, the thing I wanted to do since I was young.

 

 

 

CHAD

[slick1537]

I believe the new post 9/11 GI Bill covers 100% of training. Look into it.

[wannabe87]

Thanks so much for all the replies! I posted that email on this site and on airline pilot central. I have had replies telling me a lot of different things. I have decided that helicopter flying is for me. I know it might be a hard career path, but it is where my heart is. I hope to one day follow this career track or something similar flight instruction-temsco-GOM(I would like to be able to fly for Temsco and GOM at the same time, fly temsco in summer and GOM in winter)-Helicopter express(or some kind of utility work/fire fighting type jobs)-possibly EMS. That would be my ideal career path. If anyone has suggestions please let me know. Thanks again for the help!!

[Skidmark]

My advice would be don't do it. At your age you easily ignore all the negative aspects of a career in aviation, I would know because I did the same thing. Wait 3-4 years, believe it or not, a lot of major changes will go on in your mind around 22-23. The decisions you make now are naive, lacking foresight, and not based on sufficient life experience.

After a while flying isn't that fun, working 30 days in a row for dirt pay doesn't seem justified anymore, and moving several hundred miles for a job doesn't sound as adventurous as it did in your early 20's. Don't do it because you think it would sound cool to girls, they really don't care in the long run and if it turns out to be a long run they will wish you weren't a pilot. Listen to your Dad, he knows what he is talking about, the best advice you will ever get in your life will come from your father, but you probably won't figure that out for a couple more years.

Been there, done that, moved on and wouldn't recommend it anyone unless they were sure they had no intentions of every having a family or keeping good ties with the one they've got.

Edited October 26, 2009 by Skidmark

[RkyMtnHI]

 

Listen to your Dad, he knows what he is talking about, the best advice you will ever get in your life will come from your father, but you probably won't figure that out for a couple more years.

 

have to agree with Skid on this one for sure...

 

Samuel Clemens once said, "When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much he had learned in seven years."

 

dp

[Gomer Pylot]

There is no way you're going to be able to fly tours in the summer and the GOM in the winter. You either get a full-time job or you won't get one at all. Nobody in the GOM is going to let you fly part-time. EMS may be possible eventually, but the hour requirements are rising steadily. It's not all the pie in the sky you seem to believe. Good luck whatever you do, but don't expect fun and games forever.

[West Coaster]

You say you don't want to be an aerial "bus driver", yet you want to fly in the GOM?