skill building maneuvers

[Rick McWilliams]

Wow. That looks very dangerous. I wonder if he could have put some weight on the skids on the airplane wing.

[500E]

Goldy HOW do you retire & own a heli??

Still working 7 days a week to keep the thing going

The QS from a 100 Kts seems extreme "Hell of a tail wind ??"

[Rick McWilliams]

I dont see much utility for a quick stop from very high speed. I have seen effective use of high speed air taxi to keep clear of fixed wing traffic. That would put the helicopter at about fixed wing approach speed. This approach terminates with a quick stop and immediate landing. The advantage is less time over the runway. There is also no blade slap to disturb the neighbors.

[Lindsey]

I dont see much utility for a quick stop from very high speed. I have seen effective use of high speed air taxi to keep clear of fixed wing traffic. That would put the helicopter at about fixed wing approach speed. This approach terminates with a quick stop and immediate landing. The advantage is less time over the runway. There is also no blade slap to disturb the neighbors.

 

Okay, okay. I know I'm just a newbie here...but you're performing highly dangerous and unnecessary maneuvers so that there is "no blade slap to disturb the neighbors"?

 

I think they would be more disturbed if a helo crashed. Noisier, probably. Ya know.

[Lindsey]

 

My brand new commercial pilot course.

 

Or swing load.

[IFLY]

Okay, okay. I know I'm just a newbie here...but you're performing highly dangerous and unnecessary maneuvers so that there is "no blade slap to disturb the neighbors"?

 

I think they would be more disturbed if a helo crashed. Noisier, probably. Ya know.

 

 

Not really highly dangerous, helps get the bottom half of your autos better too.

 

Jerry

[Rick McWilliams]

Steep turns... how steep is steep 30, 45, 60 degrees? How fast a roll reversal is ok?

 

I fly fixed wing acrobatics in a Zlin. Airplanes enjoy stability and uniform control at all angles of roll. I have taken my avitar cat out for a roll. I suspect that the R22 is capable of a wing over or overbanked turn.

 

What kinds of turns are reasonable in a R22?

[Mikemv]

Rick, turns are the same in both airplanes and helos. Only use what is required. 60 degrees will be 2 G's in either. 135 operator GOMs state 30 degress for passenger comfort. Use the slowest roll rate reversal possible. Do not have an acrobatic airplane flight mentality in a helicopter. Practice standard helo maneuvers! Be smooth as possible. Make your pax smile with ease of comfort or put them asleep and you will be OK!

 

Be safe, Mike

[Goldy]

Steep turns... how steep is steep 30, 45, 60 degrees? How fast a roll reversal is ok?

 

I fly fixed wing acrobatics in a Zlin. Airplanes enjoy stability and uniform control at all angles of roll. I have taken my avitar cat out for a roll. I suspect that the R22 is capable of a wing over or overbanked turn.

 

What kinds of turns are reasonable in a R22?

 

Rick, I was going to say something about flying backwards. Other than the basic slow flight to back out of a parking space, I dont find much use for flying backwards.

 

As far as banking, I prefer to fly Robbies with kit gloves. Something about a two bladed rotor system. I can tell you that the R22 is capable of a very steep bank, well in excess of 75 degrees. I know because I did one once. Not because I wanted to be reckless...it was a choice between that or a mid air with a fixed wing. I chose the steep bank and I'm here still flying.

 

There are times when practicing auto's where you need to make a steep turn to hit your spot. Sometimes 45 degrees is required, and thats pretty steep. I don't think I would "practice" anything steeper than 45, and even then, its at a lower speed...below 70 knots.

 

Fly Safe...and what great weather we have right now!!!!

 

Goldy

[C.R.O.]

The Helicopter is not a wonderful TOY!

 

Agreed!

[nikon858]

You guys don't see a need for flying backwards fast? Ever done a boat photo shoot??

 

otherwise the ag turns and landing one skid on a cliff sounds pretty useless to me. The downwind/turning quick stops are good practice for commercial ops...just don't get reckless and keep having fun....and don't post everything you do on this forum or you'll be scrutinized by everyone.

[Mungo5]

.....or you'll be scrutinized by everyone.

 

Not to mention the scrutiny you get when it all goes pear-shaped.

[choppedair]

I forecast a further increase in insurance rates for Robinson helicopters.

[deerock]

that's funny. higher insurance for sure.

 

I'm up for any maneuvers that make you a better pilot - BUT a SAFER pilot. Important word is SAFE - while not outperforming others at the local airport so you can talk about it at lunch. Most likely the lunching pilots that are watching you are trying to hold their lunch down while questioning that quick stop (?).

 

I look forward to hearing more about your lessons though...keep it up. Glad you are both learning and having fun too.

[Rick McWilliams]

In the fixed wing world there is a controversy regarding teaching spins and acrobatic maneuvers. There have been many accidents where aircraft spin to the ground with an instructor and student aboard. The spin is scary because of the delay in control response in the recovery. Some pilots cannot get over this and have an accident. I think that proper training changes the deadly risk into a precision maneuver. Spins are useful, when I finish an aerobatic practice, I use a spin to get down out of the practice area.

 

The FAA seems to think that when an airplane exceeds 60 degrees of bank that something terrible happens. The truth is that almost any airplane can do some safe aerobatics: aileron roll, wing over, barrel roll, and wing over roll. The load factor never needs to exceed 2Gs. Of course the pilot can screw up any kind of maneuver. Airplanes are much more tolerant of botched aerobatics, there are several seconds for an instructor to consider when to help the student out of a bad situation.

 

I am sure that the FAA required helicopter flight maneuvers are the most basic and important maneuvers. When a maneuver is treated as a precision maneuver it becomes more interesting and a challenge. How many excellent patterns, approach and set downs have you done? A set down can be done such that a passenger is uncertain that you have landed. I have done only 4 of those. Hover patterns are good exercise we can demand precision, the acceptable error is +/-0 how close do we get?

 

We can do various exercises to improve our skills. Susie just loves pirouettes. I try to land and place the toe of the skid on a precise spot. Perhaps we might build hovering skills faster if we hovered between traffic cones and touch the skid against a cone.

[Goldy]

A set down can be done such that a passenger is uncertain that you have landed. I have done only 4 of those. Hover patterns are good exercise we can demand precision, the acceptable error is +/-0 how close do we get?

 

We can do various exercises to improve our skills. Susie just loves pirouettes. I try to land and place the toe of the skid on a precise spot. Perhaps we might build hovering skills faster if we hovered between traffic cones and touch the skid against a cone.

 

Rick- SPZ has that great helipad that is on a slight slope. It catches you at first if your not expecting it. I always try to land lined up to something. Line up a skid on the paint line of the H, or maybe a concrete expansion joint. Just anything to make it more difficult than putting it somewhere in the middle of a 50 foot circle.

 

I agree with you on the set downs, if I think about it at 5 feet, and say, lets do this one nice, I can set it down pretty quietly....flying one skid down at a time. IF I rush its still a nice set down....but you know you're on the ground.

 

Most pilots do that on takeoff, a nice smooth lift such that you don't even know you left the ground.

 

I think I need some cones!

 

Goldy

[yzchopper]

Here is a former student of mine practicing hand eye coordination with traffic cones. Enjoy

 

Steve

[Rick McWilliams]

What size and weight traffic cones are suitable for precision hover practice?

[Rogue]

 

My brand new commercial pilot course.

 

Ha! that's my instructor ! I've had the pleasure of flying OTTO and he is a very safe pilot.

 

http://www.otto-airshow.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=Main.Home

 

just shows what a skilled pilot CAN do safely

Edited December 23, 2009 by Rogue

[yzchopper]

I used the 28 inch and they seemed to work good. I would recommend not knocking over or picking up the cones when you are solo. If you add 100lbs to the left seat to level the helicopter than than would be okay. The helicopter sits too low without the extra weight.

 

Steve