Professional Helicopter Instructors Making $200/Hour

[RkyMtnHI]

someone made a comment about gom operators moving to dual pilot ac.

 

this is true. i cannot tell you why, or how i know.. but it is a fact.

 

this could change back in a few years, but probably not.. as operators and insurance companies get used to the safety margins it provides.

 

that being said, i expect all you young folks will change a lot of things in the industry, things that NEED to change, and that alone may move us back to single pilot ac, but i doubt it... companies could probably save enough on insurance to more than pay for that extra pilot..

 

dp

[Trans Lift]

Wow, I just spent the last hour or so reading every post in this thread and it has been an interesting read.

 

Definitely valid points from both sides of the spectrum. I'm not going to start writing about my opinions because it is late and I would probably be here a while and I want to get to bed.

 

I will say one thing though. How come they can hire 150-200 hour pilots in the North sea, flying Pumas, EC225's and S92 etc, as co-pilots but they can't do it here in the States? It seems like a great way to sort out some problems. I do understand that there are no single engine machines flying in the North sea (that I know of), so therefore increases the need for SIC positions as it is regulatory.

 

I'm an 850 hour pilot that has instructed at Bristow and another company in California. I have been unemployed for nearly 5 months. I left my job in Cali because I wasn't earning enough and it wasn't worth the lack of flying and money to put up with the particular school. Hopefully my luck is about to change for the better and it looks like I am about to land a nice job.

 

I love to instruct and I would say that I am a very good teacher. I can relate to students and I have had very successful results overall. I would have no problem being a professional instructor if the money was good enough but to be honest I am sick of scrounging and not living my life the way I want to. If I could earn more money at it I would gladly do it. But in all fairness, right now the way things are, I'm sure a flight school could get a newly qualified, sparkly, shiny CFI for half of what I think I am worth. For people who just "want to get those hours" they will work for anything, even free in some places. This is a huge problem but it is hard to tell people/schools to pay more when people are desperate to work and fly and will work for scraps.

 

Anyways, bit longer than I though, I'm off to bed!

[i_want_a_bell_222]

I should have clarified earlier. I would fly for the going rate because I would get a lot of satisfaction out of flying itself, but that doesn't mean I am opposed to getting the wages raised. Like I said in my earlier post I am new to the industry but it seems as though high insurance premiums are one of the biggest problems in the industry. Can someone clarify this for me, is this the reason that most people can't get certain jobs without a set amount of hours? If this is the case then I think this whole problem should be focused on getting insurance premiums dropped. Wouldn't this open up a lot more jobs? Let's just say for the sake of argument that a bunch of you old timers with a lot more experience and money than me, opened your own insurance company. This company could cater specifically to the helicopter world. You could charge significantly less than other insurance companies, which would inherently lower their costs to compete with you. Even if they didn't lower their costs it wouldn't matter because everyone in the industry would switch to your company. This would allow more money to go back into the industry (ie salaries) and also allow companies to hire lower hour pilots. Obviously this is easier said than done but it's an idea. Like I said I'm a noob but I think this makes sense. That is if "insurance premiums are controlling the industry", as someone put it in an earlier post. I would like to see some reasons why this would or wouldn't work. Who knows maybe this has already been suggested. And it will get people off of the dreaded $200 an hour debate. It's kind of funny, you would think people would get pissed because you wanted the wages to be lowered not raised, but oh well, whatever is gonna happen is gonna happen.

 

Thanks

[EC120AV8R]

I should have clarified earlier. I would fly for the going rate because I would get a lot of satisfaction out of flying itself, but that doesn't mean I am opposed to getting the wages raised. Like I said in my earlier post I am new to the industry but it seems as though high insurance premiums are one of the biggest problems in the industry. Can someone clarify this for me, is this the reason that most people can't get certain jobs without a set amount of hours? If this is the case then I think this whole problem should be focused on getting insurance premiums dropped. Wouldn't this open up a lot more jobs? Let's just say for the sake of argument that a bunch of you old timers with a lot more experience and money than me, opened your own insurance company. This company could cater specifically to the helicopter world. You could charge significantly less than other insurance companies, which would inherently lower their costs to compete with you. Even if they didn't lower their costs it wouldn't matter because everyone in the industry would switch to your company. This would allow more money to go back into the industry (ie salaries) and also allow companies to hire lower hour pilots. Obviously this is easier said than done but it's an idea. Like I said I'm a noob but I think this makes sense. That is if "insurance premiums are controlling the industry", as someone put it in an earlier post. I would like to see some reasons why this would or wouldn't work. Who knows maybe this has already been suggested. And it will get people off of the dreaded $200 an hour debate. It's kind of funny, you would think people would get pissed because you wanted the wages to be lowered not raised, but oh well, whatever is gonna happen is gonna happen.

 

Thanks

 

 

Although insurance requirements (and rates) help drive the hour requirements, just getting a group together and starting an insurance company would be nearly impossible. To get an insurance company going, you need to have a significant CASH reserve to back the underwritten policies. For sake of argument, lets say it's somewhere in the neighborhood of three times the amount of total policies underwritten. If any pilots in the industry had that much cash laying around, they probably wouldn't be pilots anymore.

 

I think the $200 dollar figure just shocked a lot of people. I would agree that on average, CFI pay should be more than what the industry mean is, but I'm humble enough to say my time is NOT worth $200 an hour. If it was, I would probably have something like "MD" or "Esq" or some other crap on my signature line.

[bossman]

"MONEY, MONEY, and MONEY". That is what it is all about. The insurance company for helicopters by helicopter people is a good idea. It could never happen because of the money it takes to get started. It could never happen because of the need for a profit. It could never happen because of what it costs to replace a helicopter or it's major components. All of these costs are based upon the price of liability. The cost of certification is because of the liability the government puts upon the manufacturers. The cost of liability is put upon the operators by the lawyers and the courts. It is an endless circle that ends right back with the insurance companies. Liability is something that we all share. The pilot that accepts a position with an operator must realize that he or she accepts a large portion of that liability. How many NTSB reports end with the phrase "Pilot Error"? How many times have you read the phrase "Poor Weather Decision"? These two factors make up the majority. It is the responsibility of everyone in the industry to try to eliminate these two phrases. Training and supervision are the front line. With the proper supervision, maintenance falls right there as well. Maintenance is another thing that has a lot of liability associated with it. I, for one, think that the AP/IA that puts his or her name in the log book is just as liable as the pilot. Pilots and Mechanics have a clash of egos. The Pilots sometimes think they know as much about the maintenance as the Mechanics do. The Mechanics get defensive if the Pilots write up their aircraft. When it is all said and done, they must co-exist. I think that they both deserve more pay and benefits. They are both hanging their a##es out there. At our operation we try to enstill the sense of safety as a part of making a living. We have both pilots and mechanics, I encourage both to air their complaints and speak out if they see something that is not right. Too many times someone will try to keep from speaking out because of the cost envolved or the feelings associated with a problem. Sorry this got so long and probably off track, but everything comes right back to "MONEY".

[Recklss]

From the perspective of the student how is this justified? By your own numbers training goes from 60k to 110k? Thats an 83% increase for pretty much labor? The thing about the situation is most instructors are trying to build hours too only its at the cost of the student. Same instructor now gets $160 more an hour? Why do you need an industry standard? If your instructors are of such high caliber people should be knocking down your door to pay $200 dollars an hour

[i_want_a_bell_222]

Like I said the insurance company was just an idea I was throwing out to stimulate thinking. Even if that doesn't ever happen I still think we need to focus on bringing insurance costs down.

 

To use a gas reference, remember the first time gas went to $4 a gallon and everyone freaked out? Then people came up with the idea of not buying gas on a certain day because they thought it would actually hurt the oil companies. Of course this never worked, but some guy came up with a great idea. Instead of not buying gas on a certain day, just stop buying gas from a certain company. This would result in prices being lowered so they wouldn't go out of business. This never worked either unfortunately, but it wasn't because it couldn't work, it was because people didn't stop buying from the other company.

 

So, back to helicopter insurance. Even if a new insurance company wouldn't be possible, everyone in the industry can still manipulate the system. If everyone that pays for helicopter insurance used the same company, then other companies would have to lower their rates to stay competitive. The key, however, is getting everyone to switch to one company, thats where it will get difficult.

[i_want_a_bell_222]

I'm humble enough to say my time is NOT worth $200 an hour. If it was, I would probably have something like "MD" or "Esq" or some other crap on my signature line.

 

I agree that you want to be humble but don't sell yourself short. Today millions of people are going to plug into the system and be part of something that has gotten waaaaay out of control. The Superbowl, which I can gladly say that I won't be watching. The reason I am bringing this up is because through out this post a lot of people have been comparing helicopter pilots to doctors and lawyers. But, no one has brought up the ridiculous salaries of professional sports players. These morons are getting MILLIONS of dollars to throw a ball around!!! I don't care how good they are at throwing a ball around, they are still getting MILLIONS to throw a ball around. So I can see if people don't think a helicopter pilot should be making more than a doctor, but when you look at how ridiculous it is that someone makes MILLIONS to play sports then that $200 an hour figure really doesn't look that bad.

[Kimbo]

The perception of helicopter pilots is telling in my opinion. Whenever I tell someone that I am in training to be a helicopter pilot, their eyes instantly light up. The average person has no idea what it is like to be a pilot or what it is about. They immediately start asking questions and think that being a helicopter pilot is the coolest thing on the planet. I just think that we don't give ourselves enough credit, maybe our job really is as cool as everyone thinks it is. We're worth more than we think.

 

This coming from a newbie, so I may be a little naive...

[bossman]

Like I said the insurance company was just an idea I was throwing out to stimulate thinking. Even if that doesn't ever happen I still think we need to focus on bringing insurance costs down.

 

To use a gas reference, remember the first time gas went to $4 a gallon and everyone freaked out? Then people came up with the idea of not buying gas on a certain day because they thought it would actually hurt the oil companies. Of course this never worked, but some guy came up with a great idea. Instead of not buying gas on a certain day, just stop buying gas from a certain company. This would result in prices being lowered so they wouldn't go out of business. This never worked either unfortunately, but it wasn't because it couldn't work, it was because people didn't stop buying from the other company.

 

So, back to helicopter insurance. Even if a new insurance company wouldn't be possible, everyone in the industry can still manipulate the system. If everyone that pays for helicopter insurance used the same company, then other companies would have to lower their rates to stay competitive. The key, however, is getting everyone to switch to one company, thats where it will get difficult.

We are already doing just that. There are only about three underwriters that will write helicopter insurance in the USA. They pretty much control the whole industry and if the paper trail were to be searched, you'd find that they are all tied together. Albeit in subtle ways that make them seem separated. That's why when you apply for a new policy with a new broker, they insist upon knowing who your previous carrier was.

[adam32]

But, no one has brought up the ridiculous salaries of professional sports players. These morons are getting MILLIONS of dollars to throw a ball around!!! I don't care how good they are at throwing a ball around, they are still getting MILLIONS to throw a ball around. So I can see if people don't think a helicopter pilot should be making more than a doctor, but when you look at how ridiculous it is that someone makes MILLIONS to play sports then that $200 an hour figure really doesn't look that bad.

 

That ranks Top 5 for the dumbest post I've ever read...

[i_want_a_bell_222]

That ranks Top 5 for the dumbest post I've ever read...

 

OK, enlighten me?

[beckwith]

OK, enlighten me?

 

No matter what you think of pro sport salaries it doesn't really relate to the situation of helicopter pilot pay.

Edited February 8, 2010 by beckwith

[Shaun]

A few people have spoken about market forces causing the prefect price equilibrium we see today. However, that assumes the consumer has all available information about the product.

 

It's pretty easy to subvert the market with false information, "pilot shortage" anyone?

 

If, when I was shopping for schools, I had the information I have now I would have chosen one with high paid, experienced, professional instructors assuming, of course, they were worth it.

[i_want_a_bell_222]

No matter what you think of pro sport salaries it doesn't really relate to the situation of helicopter pilot pay.

 

Obviously it doesn't directly relate but neither do doctors or lawyers. I was just saying that if you look at the amount of money someone gets to be a "professional" athlete, the $200 an hour figure for a helicopter pilot doesn't look so bad.

[Vert_ED]

Obviously it doesn't directly relate but neither do doctors or lawyers. I was just saying that if you look at the amount of money someone gets to be a "professional" athlete, the $200 an hour figure for a helicopter pilot doesn't look so bad.

 

If your flying was so impressive that Doritos and Coke and Bud Light paid millions for their names to be on the side of your chopper, I doubt you'd be instructing... atleast not as your primary function. And those sports salaries are paid by wealthy organizations, not the new bench-warmers learning from the starters.

 

Keep your arguments related to the industry at hand and your posts would hold more credability.

[i_want_a_bell_222]

If your flying was so impressive that Doritos and Coke and Bud Light paid millions for their names to be on the side of your chopper, I doubt you'd be instructing... atleast not as your primary function. And those sports salaries are paid by wealthy organizations, not the new bench-warmers learning from the starters.

 

Keep your arguments related to the industry at hand and your posts would hold more credability.

 

I don't need my posts to hold "credibility", I was just trying to come up with ideas on how these wages can actually get raised. The only reason I brought up the whole athlete thing is because some other guy said he wasn't worth $200 an hour. And if you think that a professional athlete is worth more than a helicopter pilot then I don't even know why you would be on this forum. And those athletes might get their paycheck directly from a wealthy organization but who fuels the whole empire; the American people. If there were no fans there would be no high salaries, so in essence the same person who pays the flight instructor is also paying the athlete.

[ADRidge]

Er, I guess.