S300

[yzchopper]

Looking for a good all around S300 for personal use, utility (cropdusting and/or VR), trainer both VFR and IFR. and just giving helicopter rides. So I have a few questions for anyone who may have a few answers.

 

1)What's the difference between the S300C, S300CB, and S300CBI? 2) What are the advantages and disadvantages? 3) Which model has the 3 seat conversion for taking two passengers? 4) Also what is a good price range for a used model? 5) Would it be better to buy used or new?

I'm asking for someone who is interested in buying a S300 for personal use but maybe wanting to do a lease back to a utility company or a flight school.

Any and all feed back would be greatly appreciated.

 

Steve

[adam32]

C's have the highest max gross, CB's are the "trainers" with high times on the overhauls (like 2000hrs on most), CBi's are CB's but fuel injected. I have saw some C's and CB's also injected though. I think they all have 3 seat conversions but not sure. Price depends of course on the model and times left, but it seems most good ships are around the $150k mark...new or used depends on how much he wants to fly it and how much he wants to spend...

[apiaguy]

1) differences.... 300C has a much more powerful engine and haul around 900 lbs (depending on installed equipment) much higher hover ceilings, can do more than training but costs more mainly with the engine, but also in slightly shorter time life components.

The 300CB or CBi are essentially the same helicopter except that the CBi comes with fuel injection. You can put an injected engine in the CB at overhaul or anytime you want with no fuss..plan on an extra couple grand for the fuel injection. The CBi can haul around 600 lbs and can basically do everything the C can as long as you are below 2000 msl. (except if you're spraying or other utility work where you need that extra gross) The CBi has longer life components (slightly) and its engine will almost always make TBO (2000) whereas the C will struggle to make 1500.

The flying characteristics of the aircraft are identical and all components are basically the same dynamically.

2) advantage will always go to the C unless you are just training which would give the CBi a slightly lower operating cost.

3) The C is a standard left hand pic with removeable controls on the right to make 3 place seating easy and quick.... hardly a 3 place machine, but for rides it is OK if both passengers are cute.

The CBi is standard right hand pic but there is optional left hand pic models available and a conversion you can buy. The left right thing comes into play because most models did not come with dual tanks, a single tank model always has the tank on the opposite side of the pilot. to keep lateral cg in check... if the aircraft has dual tanks, there is really no difference which side you sit except which collective the starter is on.

4) good price range is relative to component time, maintenance history relative to 1200hr, year and general condition. $150000 can get you a nice machine in todays market.

5)I would never buy anything new.... so I'll say used. What do you get with a new aircraft??? warranty.

[yzchopper]

I thought the only difference between the CB and CBI was the fuel injection but was not 100%. I also had the same understanding about the C model being more of a work horse than the CB or CBI with having a more powerful engine.

Another couple questions:How hard and how much would it be to make a 300C fuel injected? Aslo how long does it take to complete a 100hr inspection?

 

If anyone has anymore information or feel that they can add please do. Thanks for the feed back.

 

Steve

[PhotoFlyer]

The 300C doesn't really have a more powerful engine, it just runs at a higher RPM which allows it to produce more horsepower. In fact, it's only 10 more horsepower. The real difference is that the engine is derated from 210HP so it can maintain max horsepower to a higher altitude than the CB or CBi can. If you could run a CB or CBi at 3100-3300 rather than 2700-2900 (might be slightly off on the RPM, it's been a while) then it would also produce the same horsepower. *I just read what I wrote, and I suppose you could say the 300C has a more powerful engine. I just prefer not to think of it that way.*

 

There is, however, a sacrifice for the extra power. The engine TBO is significantly reduced when compared to a CB or CBi. The C has at least 500 fewer hours to TBO than a CB or CBi. The exact comparison of hours will depend on model years compared, since TBO's have improved on some components over time.

 

How hard and how much would it be to make a 300C fuel injected?

The 300C is fuel injected. As far as I know the only models that were carburated were some early 269A's and TH-55's, and the CB.

 

Aslo how long does it take to complete a 100hr inspection?

If there is nothing broken, no additional inspections, and all parts available, then 2-4 days for one mechanic working hard. One mechanic and an assistant could have it done in 1-2 days. Two mechanics and an assistant could probably get it done in a day.

 

I thought the only difference between the CB and CBI was the fuel injection but was not 100%.

As far as I can remember that's mostly true. The battery box can be in a different location. Newer CBi's have the STAR system, and automatic clutch engagement. I think the really new ones have two alternator belts. Mostly minor stuff.

Edited February 24, 2010 by PhotoFlyer

[apiaguy]

all 300C's are fuel injected...

 

100hr depends on who does it and what kind of condition the aircraft is in.

I would generally say expect 40 hours labor for a thorough annual/100hr. I'm not sure what a service center labor manual would say, I'd be curious to know. I can definitely do it in a week if I don't have to wait for parts. A good 300 will have good logs that truly reflect the 1200 hour requirements of the HMI. The inspection requirements are: 25hr, 50hr, 100hr, 200hr, 300hr, 400hr, 600hr, 1200hr. Depending on when the helicopter was mfg'd there may be more or less pesky items at those odd intervals. If the aircraft has been upgraded thru the years (usually optional so most private owners don't) then that is a plus.

Of course you could have a "paperwork" 100hr done in a day or two.

 

photoflyer's answers corrections: Engine definitely has MORE power/is more powerful. 10:1 compression pistons vs. 8.5:1, angle valve heads vs. parallel valve, beefed up mains, 500 rpm higher speed, different cam, mag timing different, tuned induction... etc.. power would be more like 225hp compared to the parallel valve 180hp lyc. The HIO-360-D1A is a TRUE 190hp engine at its certified rating 3200 rpm @26" mp, WITH exhaust installed and all accessories. The 180hp lyc. was rated with no accessories or the helicopter exhaust system. BIG DIFFERENCES for the same displacement.

early 269a's had carbs... all TH-55's had fuel injection

Edited February 24, 2010 by apiaguy

[Guest pokey]

OK i bit i clicked your link. I didnt see anything apparent that improved on apiaguy's explanation

 

as usual apiaguy is rite on top of the 269's

 

 

 

 

 

altho? the 269A-1 was the th-55?

 

and the 269A-2 was? (dig out yer books apiaguy)

 

edited for addition of the the last 2 lines

Edited February 24, 2010 by pokey

[apiaguy]

269A-1 was a 12 volt helicopter. Yes, it was FI.

I haven't seen it listed as such (269A-2) but probabally was the turbine engined TH-55 they played with. Originally was supposed to be a field installable kit.

[fly2pb]

YZ...

 

PM me if you're interested in a very clean 2003 CBi with a new engine.

 

Fly

[yzchopper]

YZ...

 

PM me if you're interested in a very clean 2003 CBi with a new engine.

 

Fly

 

PM sent. Thank you for the offer.

 

Steve